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Old
04-20-2017, 11:10 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
When he waived his clause I would have ate some salary and took what I could in return. My goal would have been to move him no matter the return when the chance presented itself. He was never really in our long term plans and we really weren't (or are) ready for a deep playoff run. Torts was really wanting to give ice time to our youth.

I tend to take a different view than most GM's (and most people for that matter). To me the cap space was more valuable than his production.
Knowing what I know now, I have to say I'd have been more highly motivated to move him as well. Seriously - I think I have been laboring under the idea that his contract was up in 2018 since...maybe forever.

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04-21-2017, 10:43 AM
  #977
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Hartsy will have a lot of thinking to do. Move on for ice time or not?

He'll waive or be a buyout. If I were Hartnell I might consider forcing a buyout, take that cash and go find another opportunity.

It's either that waive, stay and get 4th line minutes and scratched. I'm sure he still thinks he can play a contributing role on a contending team. We're just stacked on the wing. Depends on his connection to the room I suppose. No way would I want to be the 13th forward in his situation though.

No way would a contender take his cap hit even though the dollars aren't as bad.

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04-21-2017, 11:38 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
When he waived his clause I would have ate some salary and took what I could in return. My goal would have been to move him no matter the return when the chance presented itself. He was never really in our long term plans and we really weren't (or are) ready for a deep playoff run. Torts was really wanting to give ice time to our youth.

I tend to take a different view than most GM's (and most people for that matter). To me the cap space was more valuable than his production.
Curious....short of a buy out, would you be open to like a Hartsy and 2nd round pick for a 5th or 6th rounder to make it happen. I admitted don't have a good enough feel to know how viable that's is, but you get the idea.

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Old
04-21-2017, 01:31 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by MoeBartoli View Post
Curious....short of a buy out, would you be open to like a Hartsy and 2nd round pick for a 5th or 6th rounder to make it happen. I admitted don't have a good enough feel to know how viable that's is, but you get the idea.
No, we already have to lose a 2nd for Torts, that we shouldn't give another one away. Buyout is a better option than that trade.

I understand why Hartnell wouldn't want this, but I'm fine with him waiving for expansion and then sticking around as a 4th liner for one more year. I think that board crash affected him, and having the summer to train and recover will help reset him. I think he's got a bit more in the tank when fully healthy and I'd expect a slight rebound year.

He is "only" paid $3 million in his last year so buying that out at $1 m in each of 2 years seems reasonable once he gets through next year.

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Old
04-21-2017, 01:32 PM
  #980
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I think a lot of what we do will be where we see Dubois, Kolesar, and Thurkauf playing and how soon we think they will be in the NHL.

If we see Dubois as a center, then Karlsson isn't as important. If we think Kolesar or Thurkauf are close, then someone like Calvert or Jenner isn't as important.

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Old
04-21-2017, 01:39 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I think a lot of what we do will be where we see Dubois, Kolesar, and Thurkauf playing and how soon we think they will be in the NHL.

If we see Dubois as a center, then Karlsson isn't as important. If we think Kolesar or Thurkauf are close, then someone like Calvert or Jenner isn't as important.
I agree except I think Calvert is more in danger then Jenner. Just my two cents though. I think Sedsy is cementing himself in the lineup, he's extremely solid at faceoffs and he plays with a high motor for a full 60 minutes. Perfect fit in the bottom 6. If PLD can fill in on the 3rd and allow Gagner to be let go maybe we can have Karlsson on the wing? Or maybe we hope LV takes Karlsson? I think it's more likely they take Anderson though.

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Old
04-21-2017, 02:16 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I think a lot of what we do will be where we see Dubois, Kolesar, and Thurkauf playing and how soon we think they will be in the NHL.

If we see Dubois as a center, then Karlsson isn't as important. If we think Kolesar or Thurkauf are close, then someone like Calvert or Jenner isn't as important.
The only forward prospects we have that I would expect to be able to sniff the NHL in the next two years would be Dubois, Milano, Hännikäinen and Abramov. I like other guys, but I'd see them being farther out than that. We pretty well pillaged the Monsters.

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Old
04-21-2017, 04:12 PM
  #983
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Kevin Stenlund (2nd round pick in 2015) is another center prospect and has been playing very well for HV71 in the SHL finals (6 pts in 12 games, and crucial goal a few days ago). He needs at least another year to develop, but could be a very good bottom 6 center.

There's depth to replace a forward taken in the expansion draft - it's just other than Dubois, none of them are immediately ready to step into the NHL and make an immediate impact.

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Old
04-21-2017, 04:37 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I think a lot of what we do will be where we see Dubois, Kolesar, and Thurkauf playing and how soon we think they will be in the NHL.

If we see Dubois as a center, then Karlsson isn't as important. If we think Kolesar or Thurkauf are close, then someone like Calvert or Jenner isn't as important.
Karlsson isn't important under any scenario. He's a plug. One who went 48 games without a goal. Such a player cannot be deemed "important".

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Old
04-21-2017, 04:58 PM
  #985
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Karlsson isn't important under any scenario. He's a plug. One who went 48 games without a goal. Such a player cannot be deemed "important".
Karlsson's play in the final two playoff games makes him far more than a simple plug.

Sure, they can sign another Gagner type player to replace Karlsson if he is selected in the expansion draft. But it's easy to find players who fit into the system and are defensively reliable.

Karlsson still has the potential for much higher offensive numbers. I was doubting that as the regular season went along but Karlsson showed his potential in the playoffs.

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Old
04-21-2017, 05:08 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
Karlsson's play in the final two playoff games makes him far more than a simple plug.

Sure, they can sign another Gagner type player to replace Karlsson if he is selected in the expansion draft. But it's easy to find players who fit into the system and are defensively reliable.

Karlsson still has the potential for much higher offensive numbers. I was doubting that as the regular season went along but Karlsson showed his potential in the playoffs.
OK, so 2 games outweighs not scoring a goal since January 3rd. Got it.

I'm more inclined to say that the larger body of work is more indicative of what to expect from him going forward.

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Old
04-21-2017, 05:49 PM
  #987
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OK, so 2 games outweighs not scoring a goal since January 3rd. Got it.

I'm more inclined to say that the larger body of work is more indicative of what to expect from him going forward.
Karlsson was given an expanded role and was able to step up his game. Can he do that consistently? That remains to be seen, but he's still a young player. Many NHLers don't reach their peak until 26-28. Time is running out for him, but he showed signs he can make that next step.

If Vegas selects him in the expansion draft, it's based on those games and not the regular season.

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Old
04-22-2017, 12:54 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
Karlsson's play in the final two playoff games makes him far more than a simple plug.

Sure, they can sign another Gagner type player to replace Karlsson if he is selected in the expansion draft. But it's easy to find players who fit into the system and are defensively reliable.

Karlsson still has the potential for much higher offensive numbers. I was doubting that as the regular season went along but Karlsson showed his potential in the playoffs.
I'm a Karlsson fan.. However, at this point.. I'm past the "he has potential for much higher offensive numbers".. Shoot, we said that about Matt Calvert in the past for a couple years as well. Karlsson had previously went 40 plus games without a goal. Yes he had 2 goals and 1 assist the last two games, but I tend to think he had a couple good games. Don't necessarily see that as a "offensive breakout" happening.

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Old
04-22-2017, 04:02 AM
  #989
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Hartnell is a proud man and player. He wants a ring and not money. I think he'd be open to waiving, but only if he's assured he'd stay on the team.

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Old
04-22-2017, 09:15 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by hardkorejackets View Post
I'm a Karlsson fan.. However, at this point.. I'm past the "he has potential for much higher offensive numbers".. Shoot, we said that about Matt Calvert in the past for a couple years as well. Karlsson had previously went 40 plus games without a goal. Yes he had 2 goals and 1 assist the last two games, but I tend to think he had a couple good games. Don't necessarily see that as a "offensive breakout" happening.
I don't think Karlsson will be more than maybe a 15 goal/30 assist type of player, but did he show in the playoffs how he could handle an expanded role?

It seems like Vegas will use the expansion draft as an auction to get other NHL teams to offer them something for players left unprotected. But say Vegas is actually trying to build a team from the expansion draft. Their coach is Gerard Gallant. Building a team that is fast and defensively solid seems like the direction they could go. A counter striking type of team that can quickly transition the puck - like the CBJ have had success doing. That fits Karlsson.

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Old
04-22-2017, 11:05 PM
  #991
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To me, this really isn't that difficult to get Anderson protected.

NMCs - Foligno, Dubinsky, Hartnell

Other major forwards without NMCs - Saad, Atkinson, Jenner, Wennberg, Calvert, Karlsson, Anderson, Sedlak

Saad, Atkinson, Jenner, and Wennberg are all absolutely protected.

Ask Hartnell to waive his NMC, since there is no way Vegas takes a 35-year-old forward with declining point totals who still has two years left at $4.75 mil per year.

Voila! Anderson is protected.

You can go further too, and get Karlsson back in. Ask Dubinsky to waive, since it's unlikely that Vegas will take a 31-year-old with four years left at $5.85 mil per year who hasn't exceeded 20 goals or 50 points since 2010-11.

This leaves Calvert and Sedlak twisting in the wind, and would all but assure that a goalie is taken.

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Old
04-23-2017, 02:47 PM
  #992
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No reason to ask Dubi to waive. All that does is really mess up the relationship between him and the team. He is clearly a guy who wants to push the team forward and he will be a big part if the team going forward with Foligno. You need vets with this team being so young and Dubi as a 3C for 4 years while PLD and Wennberg develop into our 1-2 punch.

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Old
04-23-2017, 03:28 PM
  #993
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Vegas would take Dubinsky.

5.85m for a top 6 center that won't really fall off until his current contract expires? And the type of center that can play the defensive, gritty game that Dubinsky is known for? No chance. He'd be taken in a heart beat.

That's not to say we could easily trade Dubi, but for a team that can hand pick their payroll and avoid serious cap trouble? Yeah, he's desirable.

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Old
04-23-2017, 04:44 PM
  #994
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I can't believe some people would be open to leaving Boone Jenner unprotected.

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04-23-2017, 05:42 PM
  #995
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I can't believe some people would be open to leaving Boone Jenner unprotected.
If it is between Anderson and Jenner, I'm protecting Anderson.

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04-23-2017, 06:47 PM
  #996
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If it is between Anderson and Jenner, I'm protecting Anderson.
Won't be , or a trade would occur . No way they lose either of those players without major compensation

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Old
04-23-2017, 09:18 PM
  #997
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If it is between Anderson and Jenner, I'm protecting Anderson.
And I'm taking Jenner

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Old
04-23-2017, 09:24 PM
  #998
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Won't be , or a trade would occur . No way they lose either of those players without major compensation
Pretty sure Hartnell will waive. This shouldn't be an issue

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Old
04-24-2017, 08:27 AM
  #999
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Vegas would take Dubinsky.

5.85m for a top 6 center.
Top 6? Ehhh, that's pushing it.

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Old
04-24-2017, 09:39 AM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
Vegas would take Dubinsky.

5.85m for a top 6 center that won't really fall off until his current contract expires? And the type of center that can play the defensive, gritty game that Dubinsky is known for? No chance. He'd be taken in a heart beat.

That's not to say we could easily trade Dubi, but for a team that can hand pick their payroll and avoid serious cap trouble? Yeah, he's desirable.
So 12 goals 41 points at over $5 million is desirable

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