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Old
04-20-2017, 10:14 AM
  #651
MrBoJangelz71
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What did he discuss?
Expansion draft pertaining to the Jets

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04-20-2017, 10:16 AM
  #652
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Expansion draft pertaining to the Jets
Ahh. Who did he think we expose?

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04-20-2017, 10:36 AM
  #653
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Ahh. Who did he think we expose?
Gave his opinion on 7/3/1 and 4/4/1. Indicated that Enstrom and him possibly waiving is the linchpin. Thinks if it's 4/4/1 it's likely Perreault exposed (and indicated that's not the popular analytics answer), at 7/3/1 it's likely Dano.

His opinion aside, I just thought he came across very well.

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04-20-2017, 10:40 AM
  #654
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Gave his opinion on 7/3/1 and 4/4/1. Indicated that Enstrom and him possibly waiving is the linchpin. Thinks if it's 4/4/1 it's likely Perreault exposed (and indicated that's not the popular analytics answer), at 7/3/1 it's likely Dano.

His opinion aside, I just thought he came across very well.
Cool. I will have to listen to it if I can find it later on.

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04-20-2017, 10:50 AM
  #655
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It was just on again.

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Old
04-20-2017, 12:00 PM
  #656
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Why would anyone compare an 18 year old rookie to Crosby and McDavid? I mean afaic the scale we are using is how did they do for our team (and in relation to reasonable expectations.) If we are grading based on an overall scale where Crosby is an A+, do any Jet's get A's - and if they do, Laine being one of the better Jets this year (at 18 years of age) certainly seems worthy to me? I think you compare Laine to what you might reasonably expect from an 18 year old entering the league...and by that standard he's an A afaic. As Rewicki noted, the guy had what one could describe as one of the better rookie seasons EVAR! lol...and as Westwood noted, he wasn't even that bad defensively. Oh, other than not laying down and blocking enough Weber blasts from the point...
Grading someone in that manner is certainly your prerogative, but I don't see how it has any value. It reminds me of the arguments I always had with people in my winemaking club. It's just an unfortunate fact that the overwhelming majority of homemade wines in these parts are drinkable plonk, a handful can be very good and many are just outright bad. Yet, many of the other judges would be scoring entries like they were in the Wine Spectator Best of lists. I tried to argue that wine is wine, and the factors that go into establishing a score shouldn't be dumbed down because of lowered expectations. For example, if a wine is oxidized, it's flawed and deserves to be scored accordingly. Don't be bumping up that score just because you felt it wasn't as badly oxidized as the other entries.

Our players have to play in the NHL against all of those other players. Their performance should be graded accordingly.

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04-20-2017, 12:11 PM
  #657
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well yeah, but Laine was in the top 20 in the league for goals right? He had an amazing rookie season. What does an 18 year old rookie have to do to get an A? I don't think it's reasonable to say "well, he's no Crosby yet so B+." I don't think it's out of the question to say the top 3 to 5 players on every team in the NHL probably deserve an A rating...and you also need to take specific circumstances into account like being a rookie, or being injured for half the season...

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04-20-2017, 12:58 PM
  #658
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I actually agree with the B+ rating. If he's grading on him for being a rookie, he gets a A for sure but if he's grading him like every other player, he gets a B+.... Yes he had lots of goals but the rest of his game could use some work.
Still an amazing season for 18 year old though.

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04-20-2017, 01:52 PM
  #659
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has scheifele done an interview with tsn 1290 lately. just read article saying he did yet no mention of it here. not his exit interview.

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04-20-2017, 02:23 PM
  #660
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Yeah chef was interviewed on the BS this morning re his playing for Canada in the WC.


I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with you hardcases on Laine. I just think it's ridiculous that an 18 yr old kid comes into the top league in the world and does significantly better than really most anyone would have expected (even defensively actually) and puts up some gaudy numbers and he can't get an A for his work. Nobody said it means he doesn't have anything to work on and can't improve...

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04-20-2017, 03:30 PM
  #661
Mortimer Snerd
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Not defending Toth's shaky reasoning, but I think B+ is a fair assessment of Laine's year. He has an elite level shot, and can be a superior playmaker but there is still much to his game that he needs to improve. Grading should not be age adjusted. If the top players in the league like McDavid and Crosby deserve an A, you can't give Laine an A as well. He's just not at that level yet.
So ..... Ovi would get a B- on his career? He could have been better.

There are so many factors that enter into this kind of grading that it is impossible to pin them all down satisfactorily. If you don't want to use age then go by expectations. Laine exceeded expectations by a pretty substantial margin. Except for a couple of our Finnish friends who seem to think he should have scored at least 100 goals.

I can't find any way to get his grade below A. A+ wouldn't be out of line.

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04-20-2017, 03:57 PM
  #662
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This referendum makes no sense. It is poorly titled (google referendum) and most of these grades are awful. All these players are exceeding expectations according to these blokes, yet this team did not fulfill or exceed expectations. Someone must be getting a large F when you have 3/4's of the roster getting Bs and As. You would think with all these A’s and B’s the team would be a playoff contender. I imagine Maurice and staff get an F.

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04-20-2017, 04:23 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by DRW204 View Post
This referendum makes no sense. It is poorly titled (google referendum) and most of these grades are awful. All these players are exceeding expectations according to these blokes, yet this team did not fulfill or exceed expectations. Someone must be getting a large F when you have 3/4's of the roster getting Bs and As. You would think with all these A’s and B’s the team would be a playoff contender. I imagine Maurice and staff get an F.
how'd our goalies do? bet if our goalies got a couple B's we'd be in the playoffs...

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Old
04-20-2017, 05:30 PM
  #664
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how'd our goalies do? bet if our goalies got a couple B's we'd be in the playoffs...
They gave Comrie an Incomplete, Pavelec either got an Incomplete or a BB (for BuhBye according to Hustler). The other goalies I don't think went above C/C-

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04-20-2017, 05:45 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Laine exceeded expectations by a pretty substantial margin. Except for a couple of our Finnish friends who seem to think he should have scored at least 100 goals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
I just think it's ridiculous that an 18 yr old kid comes into the top league in the world and does significantly better than really most anyone would have expected
This expectations talk reminds me of something I was wondering about before.
Why is there so much unrestrained optimism for the team in general and such damped down expectations for individual players? It kinda annoyed me for Scheifele and then again for Laine.

It seems backwards to me. Lots of people being very conservative about how Scheifele and Laine would do alongside lots of people talking about the sure success the team is heading towards.
I wonder how quickly the Calder would have been conceded to Matthews in the Calder thread without some Finnish fans there?

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04-20-2017, 06:08 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by angrymnky View Post
This expectations talk reminds me of something I was wondering about before.
Why is there so much unrestrained optimism for the team in general and such damped down expectations for individual players? It kinda annoyed me for Scheifele and then again for Laine.

It seems backwards to me. Lots of people being very conservative about how Scheifele and Laine would do alongside lots of people talking about the sure success the team is heading towards.
I wonder how quickly the Calder would have been conceded to Matthews in the Calder thread without some Finnish fans there?
If you go back I think there is a lot of tire pumping with Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers, Morrissey and Trouba at different times. Lots of people have had very high hopes/expectations for these players individually.

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Old
04-20-2017, 06:15 PM
  #667
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They gave Comrie an Incomplete, Pavelec either got an Incomplete or a BB (for BuhBye according to Hustler). The other goalies I don't think went above C/C-
I'd give Helly a C and Hutch a D

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Old
04-20-2017, 06:18 PM
  #668
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If you go back I think there is a lot of tire pumping with Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers, Morrissey and Trouba at different times. Lots of people have had very high hopes/expectations for these players individually.
Yeah. Although I remain a committed pessimist, I'm actually much more likely to feel optimistic about individual players than the team as a whole. Their talents will rise above the Po-mega Block that is keeping warm playoff air from entering the region.

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Old
04-20-2017, 08:48 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by angrymnky View Post
This expectations talk reminds me of something I was wondering about before.
Why is there so much unrestrained optimism for the team in general and such damped down expectations for individual players? It kinda annoyed me for Scheifele and then again for Laine.

It seems backwards to me. Lots of people being very conservative about how Scheifele and Laine would do alongside lots of people talking about the sure success the team is heading towards.
I wonder how quickly the Calder would have been conceded to Matthews in the Calder thread without some Finnish fans there?
Before the season, how many people expected him to score 36 G, 64 P in 73 games? I had very high expectations for him but well below that. I didn't expect his passing, playmaking and defensive play to be as good as they were either.

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04-20-2017, 11:27 PM
  #670
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I'd give Helly a C and Hutch a D
Helly .907, Hutch .903 both sub par and both get a D! Helly's save % puts him in 37th place among NHL netminders and Hutch 40th!

Average netminder is at .915 and average warrants a C, Hutch ain't even close to average, the Jets sub-par H's netminding tandem rates a solid D!

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Old
04-21-2017, 10:04 AM
  #671
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Well, my thinking is that first of all, Helly's season wasn't all that bad compared to the usual rookie season for a goalie. He was really put in the pressure cooker, and his numbers (without any pumped up garbage time wins) are not far off for a rookie goalie in the NHL. Also, I suspect he'd have done even better had he had a bit of back-up support for the first 2/3 of the season from Hutch. Hutch was terrible this year. His stats are buoyed by garbage time wins - which were fun and not completely meaningless but still didn't contribute a thing to our making the playoffs this year. So I cut Helly a little slack and give him the C. Hutch gets the D. As mediocre as Helly was, he still gave us a better season than all but one of Pav's years...

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04-21-2017, 11:04 AM
  #672
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I'd give Helle a C. I'd give Hutch an F, The reasoning for the F? Cuz when the season actually mattered, The coaches had zero confidence in Hutch AT ALL... none zilch zero nadda, Hutch's numbers were inflated by playing in a few meaningless games at the end of the season but when it truly mattered, he FAILED big time. Hutch was actually my biggest disapointment this season, because you know what, The guy won what? 3 or 4 games when games actually mattered? If he wins 3 more games, Jets are pretty much in the playoffs aren't they? Same can be said for Helle, sure, but... Hutch crapped the bed all year long when it mattered the most. Helle had ups and downs and a few of those downs could probabaly be related to being overplayed because the coaches had no confidence in Hutch, I mean, Really.... Hutch was a healthy scratch when Pavelec was brought up and crapped the bed, that shows you how much confidence they had in Hutch.

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04-21-2017, 11:42 AM
  #673
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Hutch was a major let down this season for me too.

Helle, I think he still has tons of potential. Hes young and his highs this year were very high. He still ended up with a respectable set of numbers for a young goalie.

His lows were low at times but they were really made to be more critical than they should have...

It was the tandem more than anything was the biggest point of failure for me. Garbage time aside hutch only won 4 games for us most of the season and to me that was the difference maker in the bigger picture.


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04-21-2017, 08:23 PM
  #674
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I can't speak for anyone else but I could get by with hearing a lot less about Rick Ralph's pillows. The fake conversational tone doesn't really sell me either and today the segment of thinly disguised advertising went on for close to 8 minutes.

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04-21-2017, 10:31 PM
  #675
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Yeah the pillow thing is annoying. You not only get ralphie's "personal recommendation" segment, but there's an ad that runs several times during the show too.

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