HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix CXXVI: Clowns to the left of me... jokers to the right...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-20-2017, 10:46 PM
  #426
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 31,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Right but in a good market there are other fans who step in to take the place of the guy who had priorities change. You can't count on the same group of people being in position to go to a number of games every year. Secondly, people who can't go to games but are interested in the sport watch on TV. The TV ratings don't reflect interest either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Plenty of fallacies in that claim too.
Indeed.... Would you consider Vancouver a "good hockey market" aqib? ... Most would however as goes the fortunes of the Canucks so too goes the fortunes at the box office & with the ratings. The extremes pretty dramatic. When the Canucks are winning, consistent, total sell-outs, record setting for consistency. Waiting list for ST's.... They slide, people dont renew & the waiting list? No longer interested. Tickets deeply discounted & they cant give them away half the time.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:49 PM
  #427
dilbert719
Registered User
 
dilbert719's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Why? Is fanhood measured by dollars spent? Are the fans that have stuck by this garbage organization for so long not doing their part? What a weird comment to make.
It's not that weird if you start from the premise that a certain contingent of fans are so desperate to get their team back that they're circling around other teams, to the consternation of those teams' fanbases. In order to reduce the cognitive dissonance between "I was hurt terribly when another city stole my team" and "stealing another city's team is the only way to get mine back," a subset of those fans are attempting to minimize the fandom in those cities. If there aren't many fans, or they're not die-hard enough, it's not really hurting anyone, right? And if it's not really going to hurt them, it's less of a problem if we take their team, right?

I can't say anyone's doing this consciously, but if I was in a situation like theirs, I can see where the thought process might twist in that direction.

dilbert719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 11:07 PM
  #428
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 31,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
I can't say anyone's doing this consciously, but if I was in a situation like theirs, I can see where the thought process might twist in that direction.
Sure enough. Tomes written on the subject. The immorality of moral justification.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 11:56 PM
  #429
The Feckless Puck
Registered Loser
 
The Feckless Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
I can't say anyone's doing this consciously, but if I was in a situation like theirs, I can see where the thought process might twist in that direction.
I'll tell you what - the crucible of Coyotes fandom has burned all of that out of me for good. Maybe it's because this has gone on so long that we've actually outlasted the bitterness stage and gone straight to nihilism and exhaustion. Or maybe it's just the casual cruelty from other fans that's tattooed the lesson into my brain. All I know is that no sports fan should have to go through anything like this, and there's enough misery in sports business that I have no justification to make it worse.

The Feckless Puck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 07:44 AM
  #430
King_Stannis
Registered User
 
King_Stannis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Erie PA, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Feckless Puck View Post
I agree with you 1000%. Where we don't apparently agree is whether it is possible to find those people in this market.

I believe it is as a matter of principle. I do not believe it is possible, though, with IceArizona in charge, nor do I believe it is possible so long as this team remains "portable" (either by moving to a new city every time they need a subsidy, or by being perennially on the verge of packing the moving vans).

If this team had local ownership who realized that there's a great reason why the kachina jerseys - so lambasted by the NHL establishment at the time they were in circulation - remain the most popular sweaters the Coyotes ever had, and decided not only to lean into the Southwest vibe the team once enjoyed, but also to market this team as something Arizonans could call theirs rather than an amusing niche property that is an entertaining insight into the Canadian mind ("HEY! WE SELL TIM HORTON'S AND POUTINE! LOOK AT US! COME TO A GAME AND SAY 'ABOOT' A LOT!")... well, to me it'd be a whole new ballgame.

We aren't going to get that. So much the worse for us. But Nashville got it, so at least we know the premise is valid.
I suppose that there's some truth in a little of that, but even if they did some of those things like changing the sweaters back I don’t think it’s enough to make a difference. If there is a presumption that winning breeds fans then the year after their WCF appearance in 2012 should have brought a lot at least a few thousand more. Yes, from what I remember they weren’t very good the following season, but a team should be allowed to have a small honeymoon period with the fans after making it that far, especially at a time when the ownership situation was calming down a bit. Well, “calm” only in terms of this situation. Instead it was the same 13,500 average attendance in 2013. And unfortunately I think that’s the ceiling. If winning two playoff rounds didn’t kickstart some new fans then I don’t think any of the marketing ideas will appreciably create more. Especially in a crowded sports market.

I’ll say it again, the fans who put their ***** in that arena are probably some of the best in the league. But there’s not enough of them. Certainly not enough to justify the staggering, and I mean staggering financial losses this franchise is responsible for in their 20 years in the desert. Did I say staggering, I really mean breathtaking. Someday someone should add up the combined losses of this franchise.


Last edited by King_Stannis: 04-21-2017 at 07:51 AM.
King_Stannis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 08:31 AM
  #431
Jakey53
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
Whoa, ease up on those edgy idioms!

Let's see, a southern team that is struggling with ownership and attendance issues is threatened with relocation. Yea, no similarities whatsoever.





I don't think I ever presented it as anything but opinion.

Of course my "opinion" is backed up by years of attendance data while yours is most likely backed up with a litany of excuses. After 10 years it's put up or shut up. If you're not going to support your team on the ice because you think the mouthpiece of the ownership group is a goofball or the arena takes an extra 20 minutes to get to then I stand by my earlier statement. You don't deserve your team.
I agree. I have being saying that for the last year and get flamed every time. The ones who complain the most are the ones that watch the games on TV and don't spend a nickel on tickets, yet have all the answers. They respond that they support the team because they buy "merchandise". They have every excuse under the sun, point fingers at everyone except themselves.

Jakey53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 09:42 AM
  #432
gra
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 29,096
vCash: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Why? Is fanhood measured by dollars spent? Are the fans that have stuck by this garbage organization for so long not doing their part? What a weird comment to make.
That and everytime I see someone blasting others for not showing up, I ask them this: Have you attended every single home game of your team at your expense in your lifetime?

gra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 10:11 AM
  #433
dilbert719
Registered User
 
dilbert719's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
I suppose that there's some truth in a little of that, but even if they did some of those things like changing the sweaters back I donít think itís enough to make a difference. If there is a presumption that winning breeds fans then the year after their WCF appearance in 2012 should have brought a lot at least a few thousand more. Yes, from what I remember they werenít very good the following season, but a team should be allowed to have a small honeymoon period with the fans after making it that far, especially at a time when the ownership situation was calming down a bit. Well, ďcalmĒ only in terms of this situation. Instead it was the same 13,500 average attendance in 2013. And unfortunately I think thatís the ceiling. If winning two playoff rounds didnít kickstart some new fans then I donít think any of the marketing ideas will appreciably create more. Especially in a crowded sports market.
Here's the problem. Changing the jerseys and doing better marketing isn't going to create new fans now. That's not really the way this works. The earth has largely been salted in Phoenix, and even if the members of IceArizona woke up tomorrow bound and determined to go into hock if need be in order to make the Coyotes a success in Glendale, nobody would respond to that, because they've proven themselves not to be trustworthy.

Even that WCF appearance in 2012 wasn't likely to create fans, because they were one year removed from almost losing the team until Glendale ponied up stupid amounts of money to keep them. Potential fans could justifiably be wary of a team that had already proven a risk to leave.

Marketing doesn't result in immediate changes in a fanbase. It's something you invest in today so that 5, 10, 20 years down the road you've inculcated a sense of brand loyalty that is stronger than the swings and roundabouts of random chance. With the team at risk of leaving, with no owners stepping up who are capable of weathering losses long enough for Phoenicians to lose their skepticism over the team's likelihood of staying, with no plan to make access to the team easier for large groups of fans, marketing isn't going to get anywhere. Look at the big box retail sector. A new ad campaign isn't going to stop Sears from shuttering hundreds of stores at this point, because the market has been burned, and they see a better alternative. (in this case, Sears' prices are high, their customer service is low, and Amazon is cheaper and more convenient.) Similarly, a new ad campaign isn't going to do much in Glendale, because the market has been burned, and they see a better alternative. (In this case, Glendale proper has been throwing good money after bad to the detriment of their other responsibilities, fans have been put through a draining emotional rollercoaster, and at least they know the Suns aren't going anywhere; they've put enough effort into marketing over the years that they have the brand equity the Coyotes lack.)

Demanding fans ignore the crap they've been put through is tone deaf. It's on the league now to find ownership that can justify fans putting their faith in the team; if that doesn't happen, why would people put their hand back on the burner?

dilbert719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 10:48 AM
  #434
The Feckless Puck
Registered Loser
 
The Feckless Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
I suppose that there's some truth in a little of that, but even if they did some of those things like changing the sweaters back I don’t think it’s enough to make a difference.
It's not as simple as changing the sweaters. At this point, to save the market there would need to be a multi-year renovation of the franchise and its attitude towards the community in order to rebuild the lost trust from this past decade. IceArizona isn't capable of that, as shown by their inability to make it even a year and a half into their "stable, long-term contract" with Glendale before destabilizing everything again and bringing everyone back to the brink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
If there is a presumption that winning breeds fans then the year after their WCF appearance in 2012 should have brought a lot at least a few thousand more. Yes, from what I remember they weren’t very good the following season, but a team should be allowed to have a small honeymoon period with the fans after making it that far, especially at a time when the ownership situation was calming down a bit.
A couple of things - first of all, IceArizona didn't finalize their agreement with Glendale until literally the 11th hour, after the season was already over. Up until that point, it looked as though the Coyotes were bound for a relocation (and, we've since learned, Seattle ended up being minutes away from getting the team before the council vote happened). So the idea that "the ownership situation was calming down a bit" is not strictly accurate.

Having said that, the Coyotes' average attendance increased by almost 2,000 from the low point of the 2009 bankruptcy the year after the WCF run. Also, the attendance during the WCF season rose as the fans realized as the season went on that the team might actually be good enough for a deep run in the playoffs for the first time in the franchise's history. Every home game for the playoff run was sold out over capacity.

So yes, the year after the WCF run the average attendance was at about 14,000. But the year of the WCF run itself, the average was almost 1,500 lower. The lowest point was the year Moyes tried to help Balsillie hijack the team - that year, the average attendance was 11,989. And the attendance since the post-WCF bump has gone down as expected due to both the horrendous team record as well as the ongoing ownership drama.

I will say this again, knowing that it will likely make no difference - taking the Coyotes' attendance numbers out of context may score you brownie points with traditionalists, but it does not tell a truthful story. You may call them excuses; I call it context. And while I know context is out of favor in our society right now, it's still important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
Demanding fans ignore the crap they've been put through is tone deaf. It's on the league now to find ownership that can justify fans putting their faith in the team; if that doesn't happen, why would people put their hand back on the burner?
Yes. The market has far more problems than simply getting people to buy tickets. This franchise - and the league in general - has burned through all the built-up goodwill and trust they ever had in their greed and arrogance. How does the old saying go? It takes years to build trust, but only seconds to lose it?

Naysayers say that Phoenix doesn't care about hockey. That's false. The truth is that Phoenix doesn't care about the hockey team. Getting the Valley to adopt the team was going to be a long-term project when they first got here, but it might have worked. Except that everything that happened from the point Ellman and Moyes bought the team until now has been a litany of broken promises; malfeasance; very public and vitriolic attempts to bilk not just local politicians, but their own fans in order to line their own pockets; and, in the case of the league, outright extortion.

In other words, the Coyotes are in an abusive relationship with Arizona. They are the abusers. We as the diehards are the battered spouses who keep promising themselves that either our partner will change, or somehow we will be able to change them. Everyone else is holding the team at arm's length, because they have no interest in paying for the privilege of being a punching bag.

The ideal situation - that will never, EVER happen, I must assure you - would be that the Coyotes would leave Arizona, and then five years down the road a local ownership group would back an expansion bid like Bill Foley's. Start over fresh, with a locally-invested owner who isn't knocking door to door for handouts from everyone he sees. Let the Coyotes name die and build a new identity. Do that, and maybe this market might trust professional hockey again enough to make it a Nashville-style success story.

But that's just daydreaming. Most likely, we are headed for an ugly Bill O'Reilly divorce, with the Coyotes getting the equivalent of O'Reilly's $25M golden parachute while we are left with nothing left but the shards of our ruptured dignity.


Last edited by The Feckless Puck: 04-21-2017 at 10:56 AM.
The Feckless Puck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 10:58 AM
  #435
Tom ServoMST3K
WPG PO Wins: 0
 
Tom ServoMST3K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Just off 75
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,494
vCash: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
Here's the problem. Changing the jerseys and doing better marketing isn't going to create new fans now. That's not really the way this works. The earth has largely been salted in Phoenix, and even if the members of IceArizona woke up tomorrow bound and determined to go into hock if need be in order to make the Coyotes a success in Glendale, nobody would respond to that, because they've proven themselves not to be trustworthy.

Even that WCF appearance in 2012 wasn't likely to create fans, because they were one year removed from almost losing the team until Glendale ponied up stupid amounts of money to keep them. Potential fans could justifiably be wary of a team that had already proven a risk to leave.

Marketing doesn't result in immediate changes in a fanbase. It's something you invest in today so that 5, 10, 20 years down the road you've inculcated a sense of brand loyalty that is stronger than the swings and roundabouts of random chance. With the team at risk of leaving, with no owners stepping up who are capable of weathering losses long enough for Phoenicians to lose their skepticism over the team's likelihood of staying, with no plan to make access to the team easier for large groups of fans, marketing isn't going to get anywhere. Look at the big box retail sector. A new ad campaign isn't going to stop Sears from shuttering hundreds of stores at this point, because the market has been burned, and they see a better alternative. (in this case, Sears' prices are high, their customer service is low, and Amazon is cheaper and more convenient.) Similarly, a new ad campaign isn't going to do much in Glendale, because the market has been burned, and they see a better alternative. (In this case, Glendale proper has been throwing good money after bad to the detriment of their other responsibilities, fans have been put through a draining emotional rollercoaster, and at least they know the Suns aren't going anywhere; they've put enough effort into marketing over the years that they have the brand equity the Coyotes lack.)

Demanding fans ignore the crap they've been put through is tone deaf. It's on the league now to find ownership that can justify fans putting their faith in the team; if that doesn't happen, why would people put their hand back on the burner?
Yup. Yup. Yup.

Pointing at attendance at this current point, and using it to say if the NHL should leave the market or not is a foolish idea.

Tom ServoMST3K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 11:11 AM
  #436
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Feckless Puck View Post
Isn't that the point of season tickets?
Right but every year you expect some to drop out for any number of reasons, other financial obligations, job changes, moves ,etc. You also expect some new people to come in for the same reasons. You get to the point in life where you have more disposable income you go to more games your kids go to college you go to less games.

In either case you would expect that people who would otherwise go to more games if they had the flexibility to do so but don't would be watching on TV and you would have higher ratings but thats not the case either.

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 11:17 AM
  #437
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Indeed.... Would you consider Vancouver a "good hockey market" aqib? ... Most would however as goes the fortunes of the Canucks so too goes the fortunes at the box office & with the ratings. The extremes pretty dramatic. When the Canucks are winning, consistent, total sell-outs, record setting for consistency. Waiting list for ST's.... They slide, people dont renew & the waiting list? No longer interested. Tickets deeply discounted they cant give them away half the time.
It seems like attendance has been pretty solid since they have been at Rogers Arena except for 98 and 99:

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=8756

Even there worst year at Rogers would be considered great by Coyotes standards

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=7450

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 11:33 AM
  #438
DowntownBooster
Registered User
 
DowntownBooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Feckless Puck View Post
The ideal situation - that will never, EVER happen, I must assure you - would be that the Coyotes would leave Arizona, and then five years down the road a local ownership group would back an expansion bid like Bill Foley's. Start over fresh, with a locally-invested owner who isn't knocking door to door for handouts from everyone he sees. Let the Coyotes name die and build a new identity. Do that, and maybe this market might trust professional hockey again enough to make it a Nashville-style success story.
Instead of relocating out of Arizona, do you think it's possible to make a go of it by doing the following:

1) Find local ownership in partnership with IA
2) Build a new arena closer to Scottsdale
3) Rename the team Phoenix Roadrunners

DowntownBooster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 11:43 AM
  #439
pfp
Registered User
 
pfp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
I suppose that there's some truth in a little of that, but even if they did some of those things like changing the sweaters back I donít think itís enough to make a difference. If there is a presumption that winning breeds fans then the year after their WCF appearance in 2012 should have brought a lot at least a few thousand more. Yes, from what I remember they werenít very good the following season, but a team should be allowed to have a small honeymoon period with the fans after making it that far, especially at a time when the ownership situation was calming down a bit. Well, ďcalmĒ only in terms of this situation. Instead it was the same 13,500 average attendance in 2013. And unfortunately I think thatís the ceiling. If winning two playoff rounds didnít kickstart some new fans then I donít think any of the marketing ideas will appreciably create more. Especially in a crowded sports market.

Iíll say it again, the fans who put their ***** in that arena are probably some of the best in the league. But thereís not enough of them. Certainly not enough to justify the staggering, and I mean staggering financial losses this franchise is responsible for in their 20 years in the desert. Did I say staggering, I really mean breathtaking. Someday someone should add up the combined losses of this franchise.
I suspect that the lockout the very next year dampened any bump they may have had from the playoff run.

pfp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 11:56 AM
  #440
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 31,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
It seems like attendance has been pretty solid since they have been at Rogers Arena except for 98 and 99:

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=8756

Even there worst year at Rogers would be considered great by Coyotes standards

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=7450
No, you look at those numbers & go all the way back to 1970 & its really nothing to write home about aqib. The Canucks like the Coyotes subject to instant karma in losses at the box office during sustained periods of non-performance, lack of confidence in Ownership & Management, Coaching. This past season for example massive transit ad campaign, billboard, print & new media campaign offering up dirt cheap tickets. Sure they averaged numbers the Coyotes would be envious of through 2016/17 however if Vancouver's swoon isnt soon corrected they will fall from that perch and by the 1000's. And this at an urban arena with a mass transit station located just meters from it? Hard core Canadian hockey fans sure but like Arizona, a lot of transplants from back east who have never adopted the Canucks as their own for a variety of reasons. In fact attendance so bad at one point & with a brand new arena opening, Arthur Griffiths having massively over-extended himself in also acquiring an NBA franchise, bringing in Seattle billionaire John McCaw, rumors the team was headed south of the border for a time.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 12:16 PM
  #441
NickWIHockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Port Washington, WI
Country: United States
Posts: 251
vCash: 500
Hey guys, Just wondering where we stand at this point? i take it the Bill in the Arizona legislature is dead?

NickWIHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 12:51 PM
  #442
Llama19
Registered User
 
Llama19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Outside GZ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,880
vCash: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickWIHockey View Post
Hey guys, Just wondering where we stand at this point? i take it the Bill in the Arizona legislature is dead?
See post #377...

Llama19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 12:57 PM
  #443
The Feckless Puck
Registered Loser
 
The Feckless Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,635
vCash: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownBooster View Post
Instead of relocating out of Arizona, do you think it's possible to make a go of it by doing the following:

1) Find local ownership in partnership with IA
2) Build a new arena closer to Scottsdale
3) Rename the team Phoenix Roadrunners
Item #2 isn't going to matter much if it's business as usual with IceArizona. That's not a popular opinion with East Siders and especially not with guys like Dan Bickley who believe the center of the Universe lies somewhere around Hayden Rd. and McKellips, but simply moving locations is just going to be carrying the same fundamental problems from one spot to another without solving them.

New local ownership would be fantastic, particularly if they are invested to the level that D'Backs owners/admins are. But thus far there doesn't seem to be any interest.

As for the name, Tucson's already got the Roadrunners. I would prefer a rebrand with a new name that appealed locally and wasn't a pejorative to Latinos (as "coyote" could be).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfp View Post
I suspect that the lockout the very next year dampened any bump they may have had from the playoff run.
Yeah, it didn't do any favors.

The Feckless Puck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 01:04 PM
  #444
Llama19
Registered User
 
Llama19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Outside GZ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,880
vCash: 91

Llama19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 01:13 PM
  #445
JimAnchower
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 1,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Dear Elaine: Have you ever written a personal check to support the Coyotes or run a successful business? We have.
So the Coyotes aren't a successful business then, DJ?

JimAnchower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 01:16 PM
  #446
Llama19
Registered User
 
Llama19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Outside GZ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,880
vCash: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimAnchower View Post
So the Coyotes aren't a successful business then, DJ?
Funny how LeBlanc went quiet and Daryl Jones starts tweeting...he must know what will likely happen once the 'arena' bill dies in the legislature...

Llama19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 01:29 PM
  #447
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 9,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
It may not have been "personal" in that the cheque(s) weren't in her name.... but IIRC, the CoG wrote two cheques worth $50 million, and was giving them $15 million per year, to try and make the Coyotes a successful business....

Just guessing, but that amount is probably a little bit more than Daryl Jones ever put into the team out of his own pocket...

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 01:52 PM
  #448
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 31,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
.... but IIRC, the CoG wrote two cheques worth $50 million, and was giving them $15 million per year, to try and make the Coyotes a successful business.....
Yeah... total drive-bye and about 2 months too late. Scruggs letter goes back to like March 10th. Whats this guy doing? Freelancing, just lipping off? Or just more of the "IA authorized" smear campaign in
blaming the COG, past & present Mayor & Council Members for their own gross incompetence, wannabes' who never were & never will be, had no business playing in the Big Leagues to begin with. Pathetic.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 01:54 PM
  #449
GuelphStormer
Registered User
 
GuelphStormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
this is hilarious ... and almost five weeks after the fact. what a simpleton.

edit to add ... one of the comments on that article says Barroway is Bettman's half-brother ... is that true?


Last edited by GuelphStormer: 04-21-2017 at 02:00 PM.
GuelphStormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2017, 01:58 PM
  #450
Mightygoose
Registered User
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
If someone was looking for evidence that the relationship between the Coyotes and Glendale is irreparable, this tweet is it.

This organization has underperformed on and off the ice for a long time and they absolutely deserve the criticism they get.

They have support in the media as well which is fine. Two sides to every coin. But if Mr. Jones wants to constantly **** on anyone that expresses anything that is different to just accepting and nodding to everything they say. How are they going to win any support for would be season ticket holders? How do they attract new sponsors that don't see them as the local charity case?

There comes a point where a professional organization needs to take the high road. Not these guys it seems. If they're just going to spat any anyone or any city that wants to call them out as they see it, good luck keeping their faint presence in the valley going.

If the legislature closes on April 27, are they going to spat at the state too? Who's going to cut the next cheque to this team? Likley the other owners if this keeps up.

Edit: I didn't realize the letter Scruggs wrote was dated March 9. Yeah why does NBC bring this up now? Seems like the foundation of a split is in the works. If/when the bill officaly fails, it's probably for the best.

Mightygoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.