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Top-40 Stanley Cup Playoff Performers - Voting Results

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Old
04-10-2017, 10:10 PM
  #26
Canadiens1958
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Dynasty Teams

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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Richard and Beliveau made huge contributions outside of the 56-60 dynasty though. Plante to a lesser extent as well. The members of the 70's dynasty that are up for voting did comparably less outside of their dynasty years, especially Lafleur.
Part of the problem is the dynasty mentality. Players that contributed across dynasties or multiple teams - such as Red Kelly, Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Frank Nighbor, Allan Stanley, are under appreciated.

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Old
04-10-2017, 11:37 PM
  #27
The Panther
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Okay, I didn't vote on this, but I need to know who's the Einstein that voted Gretzky 9th...?

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Old
04-11-2017, 12:18 AM
  #28
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Okay, I didn't vote on this, but I need to know who's the Einstein that voted Gretzky 9th...?
Same person who voted Roy 10th?

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Old
04-11-2017, 12:57 AM
  #29
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Same person who voted Roy 10th?
A dissenter, I guess.

I think it's well known around here that I think Roy's slightly over-rated. I wouldn't object to anyone voting him 10th on a list like this -- to put it another way, I think that opinion is at least defensible. But Gretzky at 9th...????



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Old
04-11-2017, 01:10 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
A dissenter, I guess.

I think it's well known around here that I think Roy's slightly over-rated. I wouldn't object to anyone voting him 10th on a list like this -- to put it another way, I think that opinion is at least defensible. But Gretzky at 9th...????


Defensible if you don't think goalies belong on the list, I guess. I mean, talk of Roy being overrated in the regular season all you want (I'd disagree, but at least THAT opinion is defensible).

It's a shame that voters usually don't try to justify their votes after the full results are released.

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04-11-2017, 06:47 AM
  #31
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...Meanwhile, this is a somewhat small project compared to others, but is it the first time a given players ends up with 0 point in a round?

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04-11-2017, 07:36 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
...Meanwhile, this is a somewhat small project compared to others, but is it the first time a given players ends up with 0 point in a round?
Gennady Tsygankov in the final vote of the European project. However not all projects had ~15 names available and the option to omit a player.

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04-11-2017, 08:41 AM
  #33
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...Meanwhile, this is a somewhat small project compared to others, but is it the first time a given players ends up with 0 point in a round?
Overall Lidstrom was a better playoff performer than Sakic and they were contemporaries so it shouldn't be that difficult to see. He had more great runs, won twice as many Cups, and was a +61 as a shutdown defender while Sakic was a -2 as an offensive centre. It's not like Sakic didn't play for great teams during most of this playoff years either with a guy named Roy leading the way. Lidstrom was the Red Wings Patrick Roy because they didn't have a superstar goalie.


Last edited by Gardner McKay: 04-11-2017 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Yeah... No.
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Old
04-11-2017, 11:34 AM
  #34
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Folks, we are colleagues.

Treat one another as colleagues if you wish to remain in the discussion.

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Old
04-20-2017, 03:58 PM
  #35
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Mike Bossy's 17 goals three years in a row means zilch? Top 2 in goals per playoff game?
Nice list, not very realistic.

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04-20-2017, 04:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by 2LeftSkates View Post
Mike Bossy's 17 goals three years in a row means zilch? Top 2 in goals per playoff game?
Nice list, not very realistic.
There's more to being a good offensive forward than just scoring goals, there's more to being a good all-around forward than just scoring points, there are more positions than forward, and there are more decades than the 1980s.

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Old
04-20-2017, 08:03 PM
  #37
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I seriously don't know what more could Bossy do in playoffs. Before 1980 the Isles were not beating the Canadians, and after 1983 they were not beating the Oilers. In fact, it's amazing players still have it in them to put on skates, having won four Cups in a row. I think he belongs in the Top 15. "80s goalscorers" or not.

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04-20-2017, 08:37 PM
  #38
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I seriously don't know what more could Bossy do in playoffs. Before 1980 the Isles were not beating the Canadians, and after 1983 they were not beating the Oilers. In fact, it's amazing players still have it in them to put on skates, having won four Cups in a row. I think he belongs in the Top 15. "80s goalscorers" or not.
Well only 10 names have been selected, so he might be in the top 15. Every player already on the list won a minimum of 4 Cups, so it's not like less accomplished players have been listed before Bossy.

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04-21-2017, 01:54 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I seriously don't know what more could Bossy do in playoffs. Before 1980 the Isles were not beating the Canadians, and after 1983 they were not beating the Oilers. In fact, it's amazing players still have it in them to put on skates, having won four Cups in a row. I think he belongs in the Top 15. "80s goalscorers" or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Well only 10 names have been selected, so he might be in the top 15. Every player already on the list won a minimum of 4 Cups, so it's not like less accomplished players have been listed before Bossy.
Well...

Bossy didn't play THAT many games in the playoffs all things considered, and his Pre and Post Islanders dynasty resume is really nothing special. He certainly wasn't going in on top of, say, his teammate Potvin and Mark Messier, let alone Maurice Richard or Wayne Gretzky,

Plus, compared to someone like Guy Lafleur, the scoring gap with his best teammate is quite similar (I don't want to go on a argument between Lafleur and Bossy as to their teammates as a whole, nor do I want to make an argument on Trottier either).

And I'm not quite sure he's better than other players who didn't play a ton of playoff games either (Mario Lemieux comes to mind).

That's mostly the reasons why he's not been voted in yet, as opposed to reasons why he WON'T be voted in this round... I think he could go either way at this point, but honestly, he isn't looking significantly better than Bernard Geoffrion... and that probably spell trouble for Top-15.

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Old
04-24-2017, 08:47 AM
  #40
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Vote 3

Round 1 Participants

Player1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10thNoneTotal
Mario Lemieux 4 2 1 2 63
Joe Sakic 2 2 2 2 1 60
Bobby Orr 4 1 1 1 1 1 56
Red Kelly 3 1 2 2 1 54
Guy Lafleur 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 47
Peter Forsberg 3 2 1 1 2 38
Frank Nighbor 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 36
Bernie Geoffrion 1 2 1 2 3 29
Henri Richard 1 1 1 1 1 4 26
Mike Bossy 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 25
Turk Broda 1 1 1 1 1 4 22
Ken Dryden 1 2 1 5 19
Larry Robinson 2 1 6 13
Bryan Trottier 1 8 4
Nicklas Lidstrom 1 1 7 3
Martin Brodeur 9 0
Paul Coffey 9 0

Open Ballot

Player1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10thNoneTotal
Mario Lemieux 4 2 1 1 1 2 74
Joe Sakic 2 2 3 2 2 67
Bobby Orr 4 2 1 1 2 1 65
Guy Lafleur 2 1 2 2 1 2 1 63
Red Kelly 3 1 1 2 2 2 63
Mike Bossy 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 39
Peter Forsberg 3 2 1 1 4 38
Frank Nighbor 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 36
Bernie Geoffrion 1 3 1 2 1 3 35
Henri Richard 1 1 2 2 1 4 35
Turk Broda 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 32
Ken Dryden 1 3 1 6 23
Larry Robinson 2 1 1 7 15
Bryan Trottier 1 1 9 12
Nicklas Lidstrom 1 2 1 7 8
Martin Brodeur 11 0
Paul Coffey 11 0

Vote 4

*MAY* 5th-7th


Last edited by quoipourquoi: 04-24-2017 at 09:22 AM.
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Old
04-24-2017, 09:08 AM
  #41
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...And this is where I regret not voting strategically so Red Kelly ends up ahead of BOTH Sakic and Orr.

EDIT : Red Kelly would be ahead of Guy Lafleur on the open ballot, no?

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04-24-2017, 09:26 AM
  #42
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Quote:
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EDIT : Red Kelly would be ahead of Guy Lafleur on the open ballot, no?
They would have to go to a shootout.

I don't really mind ties in this project, but what would people prefer as a tie-breaker? Most 1st place votes, ahead on most ballots, or fewest unlisted votes?

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Old
04-24-2017, 09:35 AM
  #43
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They would have to go to a shootout.

I don't really mind ties in this project, but what would people prefer as a tie-breaker? Most 1st place votes, ahead on most ballots, or fewest unlisted votes?
TBH, I don't really mind either, unless it's for 40th.

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04-24-2017, 10:09 AM
  #44
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Mario over Orr is unexpected.

REALLY surprised to see Lafleur not go higher.

I probably would have been Lidstrom's highest vote if I'd remembered to vote in the open ballot

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Old
04-24-2017, 02:50 PM
  #45
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Mario over Orr is unexpected.

REALLY surprised to see Lafleur not go higher.

I probably would have been Lidstrom's highest vote if I'd remembered to vote in the open ballot
The thing that stands out to me immediately is Trottier-lite being as high as he is in comparison to actual Trottier... Bossy too.

New York fans aren't kidding when they say their dynasty is underrated.

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Old
04-24-2017, 02:54 PM
  #46
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The thing that stands out to me immediately is Trottier-lite being as high as he is in comparison to actual Trottier... Bossy too.

New York fans aren't kidding when they say their dynasty is underrated.
Who is Trottier-lite?

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04-24-2017, 03:30 PM
  #47
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There's more to being a good offensive forward than just scoring goals, there's more to being a good all-around forward than just scoring points, there are more positions than forward, and there are more decades than the 1980s.
Thanks for the educashun. I have always thought that the team scoring the most wins the game/series.

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04-24-2017, 03:47 PM
  #48
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Thanks for the educashun. I have always thought that the team scoring the most wins the game/series.
So... What you're really saying is that Mike Bullard was a better player than Denis Potvin.

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04-24-2017, 03:47 PM
  #49
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Thanks for the educashun. I have always thought that the team scoring the most wins the game/series.
And the player receiving more votes places higher. Where was your ballot?

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Old
04-24-2017, 03:56 PM
  #50
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Thanks for the educashun. I have always thought that the team scoring the most wins the game/series.
You completely missed the point, which was: being "arguably the best playoff goal scorer of the 1980s" is far from a sure bet for top-10 on this list because that doesn't make him the best offensive forward of the 80s, let alone the best forward of the 80s, let alone the best player of the 80s, let alone the best player of all-time. If someone were to determine his offensive exploits were approximately 10th of all-time that still means some goalies and defensemen deserve their due in the top-10 as well.

Basically your case was weak.

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