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Another Backman thread - bear with me

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Old
03-15-2008, 11:07 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
really don't think you know what you are watching... Positionally he's not all that bad, true, but he's easily our worst defenseman.

It is no coincidence that the defense has gotten worse since he's been on this team.

While his positioning isn't completely awful, he's just awful in 1 on 1s and his decisions are awful. he pinched at an absolutely brutal time tonight but Staal made a good play to make up for it. That was just one instance... Plus the penalties always hurt.

Backman has zero redeeming qualities about his game. Neither good with the puck and not physical. Nothing to like with him.
watch out you might get attacked by cherapanov, a very arrogant angry person who loves horrible defensemen.

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03-16-2008, 01:53 AM
  #27
NYR Viper
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ppronger takes penalties from being physical, which is something that can actually change a game. backman takes penalties just from being stupid. do you see the difference? or should i draw a picture for you?
do you watch the games or just look at stats?.......because i can tell you that there are 3 or 4 of his minors that have been called that were obvious weak calls.....

also, defenseman who are learning their partners and learning a new system do take penalties because they find themselves out of position.....thats not his fault, it will come in time, you cant expect a player, no matter what position(except goalie) to be perfect in his first group of games......for example....gomez and drury....both didnt look great at the beginning and those are two very good players.....it takes time......also, since he is a defenceman, any mistake he makes is magnified because he is one of the last defenders, whereas a forward has back-up.......

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03-16-2008, 03:21 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
do you watch the games or just look at stats?.......because i can tell you that there are 3 or 4 of his minors that have been called that were obvious weak calls.....

also, defenseman who are learning their partners and learning a new system do take penalties because they find themselves out of position.....thats not his fault, it will come in time, you cant expect a player, no matter what position(except goalie) to be perfect in his first group of games......for example....gomez and drury....both didnt look great at the beginning and those are two very good players.....it takes time......also, since he is a defenceman, any mistake he makes is magnified because he is one of the last defenders, whereas a forward has back-up.......
Do you watch the games? He plays bad because he is horrible. Dont blame the refs for him taking bad penalties. Dont blame the system for him being out of position. Bottom line is the blues fans were happy as hell when he got traded, and it was for a good reason too. The guy is a bad player, period. Im sure if i wanted to I could name a bunch of excuses for every bad player in the nhl too, but what would be the point? I am much smarter than to waste my time doing that.

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03-16-2008, 07:40 AM
  #29
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He plays bad because he is horrible?

Chucklee, its not like you guys have done a great job developing the other young D's you have had in STL. Both Brewer and Jackman where also seen as future studs. Brewer made a best of the best Canadian national team as a 22 y/o. Jackman won the calder trophy. Now you can probably not even get a 2nd round pick for either.

If I where you I would look at my own house first. Maybe its something wrong with STL, not every young D you bring up?

Your coaching staff doesn't necessary have to do some major misstakes; while it was obvious that Bäckman was rushed into the league playing around 30 minutes his rookie season on some nights. Its extremely hard to bring up puckmoving D's while beeing one of the worst teams in the league -- and by far the worst for one season.

Eric Johnson is maybe the biggest talent on the blueline to enter this league, next to Phaneuf, since Pronger entered the league like 15 years ago. And to be honest, he too have struggled this season in STL.

IMO Bäckman is gooing to need to stay healty this summer and through out camp before he really can get a fair chance to prove his worth. I do think he will have to step aside when Mara comes back; and fill in incase of injurys for the rest of the season. But he is defenitly showing that he got allot of hockey in him so far. He defenitly got some raw edges -- where you wonder what da heck your coaching staff have done with him during all these years? -- but he is also showing that he got a ton of hockey in him.

On friday he had some great passes, springing Sean Avery on one of them. Last night he was the only Ranger that could beat Tampas trap constantly.

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03-16-2008, 08:30 AM
  #30
Evgeny Oliker
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...

when we first made the trade for Backman, I was very excited because I have seen him play rather well in St.Louis at times.

I then gave him the benefit of the doubt for the first few games with the Rangers. However, I'm off the Backman bandwagon after watching the Tampa game. This trade now sorely reminds me of our trade for Ozolinsh 2 seasons ago....Ozolinsh literally lost us 2-3 games in the playoffs, thats how bad he was!

Yes, Backman is rather good offensively. But I dont remember the last Dmen that I saw how was out of position SO many times in ONE game. He left Darche alone near the net, then gave up a breakaway since he forgot to get back on D, he was just out of position the ENTIRE game.

When Mara or Malik come back, Backman HAS to sit. He may improve next season, but this guy is NOT ready for the playoffs.

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Old
03-16-2008, 09:24 AM
  #31
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I can see potential in Backman but at the moment he doesn't inspire much confidence. His decision making is out of sync with the rest of the team. Not quite as bad as Ozo was but he does at times remind me of him. Being paired with the skating challenged Strudwick does not make me very comfortable when they're on the ice. Malik we all know for his occasional spectacular mistakes but I'm really looking forward to his and Mara's return. I'm sure of one thing that Strudwick is not someone I want to see on the ice in the playoffs. Backman should be our 7th d-man.

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Old
03-16-2008, 11:19 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Backman has zero redeeming qualities about his game. Neither good with the puck and not physical. Nothing to like with him.
Thats basically it. The way I see it, the way we've played all year, our entire defense is entirely replaceable and unspectacular. The only thing worth mentioning is the upside of Staal, which isn't here yet!

I also like the leadership of Strudwick as a 7th d-man. Other than that, our defense is just nothing special.

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03-16-2008, 04:35 PM
  #33
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I'm not a Backman hater, but even I have to admit that I think he's looked like crap since coming over.

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03-16-2008, 05:39 PM
  #34
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I've been saying this since he got here. I like the guy, give him time, plus he's young. He adds depth, and is coming into his own. Maybe a surprise down the road, but I won't get ahead of myself. I think because Sjostrom hit the ground running people kind of saw Backman as a waste.

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Old
03-16-2008, 05:43 PM
  #35
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I am sure I am "biased" on this subject, not so much because he is a swede, but because I don't like to see him booed and have defended him therefor. I am sure I am looking at him with rosecolour glasses for that reason.

The reason I don't like to see him booed is because he do got a upside, no doubt.He is very talented, got good size which is important since he can't be pused around as easily by bigger forwards as say a 5'11 D. Its also not unusual that D's like him struggle early in their career and then blossom at a later age. There are plenty of examples of that.

Look at last season scoring leaders among D's. Dan Boyle scored more then 22 pts for the first time when he was 26 y/o. Phillipe Boucher scored more then 30 pts for the first time when he was 31 y/o. Bryan McCabe score more then 30 pts for the first time when he was 27 y/o. Lubonir Visnovsky was 29 when he broke through. Sheldon Souray scored more then 11 pts for the first time when he was 28 y/o. Souray at the age of 27, when he had a career high 11 pts, defenitly didn't play like a 6m D neither.

And if Bäckman gets booed here right away, he never gets a chance to build up confidence in a new enviorment.

However, even if I look at him with rosecoloured glasses, the talk about him not having any upside is just pure BS. If you say that you got no clue for what to watch for in a defensemen. I am sorry but if Bäckman can put it all together he would have what everyone is looking for in a defensemen right now.

You can't really compare D's with forwards on this subject, but he is defenitly closer to a Patrick Marleau on defense then a Marcel Hossa on defense.

I don't doubt that at all. What a D needs to be successful is not as obvious as for example a forward needs. Most people can see what a forward needs to be successful. But for example, I remember beeing in endless discussions with some guys on here about Rozsival 2 seasons ago -- fans who had seen allot of hockey but still argued that Michael Rozsival wouldn't be a top 6 D for more then a handful of teams in this league. When you hear what kind of blueline people want here in NY; it sounds like they want to dublicate what Atlanta or Philly had last season.

More important then anything else these days is that you got guys who can move the puck out of trouble. Bäckman got great mobility for someone 6'4. He also got smooth hands and sees the ice well. What he don't have is the confidence and the chemistry with his teammates. For a D confidence/poise is everything. You need to make a ton of small plays on a night by night basis wtihout making misstakes. The fact that Bäckman have wasted 5 years playing for one of the worst teams in the league, who de facto have done a horrible job bringing up young D's (see Brewer, Jackman among others) could defenitly mean that he never will be able to get out of the hole he is in right now.

Bäckman fell into our laps. I don't see any reason for why he shouldn't be given a chance.


Last edited by Ola: 03-16-2008 at 05:52 PM.
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03-16-2008, 06:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am sure I am "biased" on this subject, not so much because he is a swede, but because I don't like to see him booed and have defended him therefor. I am sure I am looking at him with rosecolour glasses for that reason.

The reason I don't like to see him booed is because he do got a upside, no doubt.He is very talented, got good size which is important since he can't be pused around as easily by bigger forwards as say a 5'11 D. Its also not unusual that D's like him struggle early in their career and then blossom at a later age. There are plenty of examples of that.

Look at last season scoring leaders among D's. Dan Boyle scored more then 22 pts for the first time when he was 26 y/o. Phillipe Boucher scored more then 30 pts for the first time when he was 31 y/o. Bryan McCabe score more then 30 pts for the first time when he was 27 y/o. Lubonir Visnovsky was 29 when he broke through. Sheldon Souray scored more then 11 pts for the first time when he was 28 y/o. Souray at the age of 27, when he had a career high 11 pts, defenitly didn't play like a 6m D neither.

And if Bäckman gets booed here right away, he never gets a chance to build up confidence in a new enviorment.

However, even if I look at him with rosecoloured glasses, the talk about him not having any upside is just pure BS. If you say that you got no clue for what to watch for in a defensemen. I am sorry but if Bäckman can put it all together he would have what everyone is looking for in a defensemen right now.

You can't really compare D's with forwards on this subject, but he is defenitly closer to a Patrick Marleau on defense then a Marcel Hossa on defense.

I don't doubt that at all. What a D needs to be successful is not as obvious as for example a forward needs. Most people can see what a forward needs to be successful. But for example, I remember beeing in endless discussions with some guys on here about Rozsival 2 seasons ago -- fans who had seen allot of hockey but still argued that Michael Rozsival wouldn't be a top 6 D for more then a handful of teams in this league. When you hear what kind of blueline people want here in NY; it sounds like they want to dublicate what Atlanta or Philly had last season.

More important then anything else these days is that you got guys who can move the puck out of trouble. Bäckman got great mobility for someone 6'4. He also got smooth hands and sees the ice well. What he don't have is the confidence and the chemistry with his teammates. For a D confidence/poise is everything. You need to make a ton of small plays on a night by night basis wtihout making misstakes. The fact that Bäckman have wasted 5 years playing for one of the worst teams in the league, who de facto have done a horrible job bringing up young D's (see Brewer, Jackman among others) could defenitly mean that he never will be able to get out of the hole he is in right now.

Bäckman fell into our laps. I don't see any reason for why he shouldn't be given a chance.


The sad part is that alot of people that go to the garden don't visit this forum and read other peoples opinion, hence they will just always boo backman.

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03-16-2008, 06:23 PM
  #37
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Not going to comment on what it's like to come up as a young d-man on the Blues. Backman seems to skate and handle the puck well enough--he seems a bit shy in the physical area--kind of like Kondratiev. He has size but as soon as Mara and Malik are ready I'd rather go with them. Backman practices with the team and fills in if someone goes out of the lineup--works hard over the summer, comes back to training campwith a fresh start. He has flaws to work on--a lot of it seems decision making (pinching at the wrong time, getting caught flatfooted along his own blue line ala Poti)--more than from lack of talent.

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03-16-2008, 06:26 PM
  #38
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Ola, I agree with you about seeing the potential in Backman. So far the glimpses of potential have been overshadowed by the glaring mistakes he makes. I suggested a week ago that I would like to see Backman learn our system in practice and get a training camp under his belt and see if he can help us next year. As for this year, he is exactly what we didn't need. That is on Sather. We didn't need a Dman whos confidence was in the gutter. When Malik and Mara come back Backman shouldn't see the ice for the rest of the year along with strudwick. I have zero confidence in backman right now. Do I believe he could turn things around for us next year....maybe. This year he isn't gonna help us though.

If we make the playoffs:

Malik-Rozy
Toots-Girardi
Staal-Mara

Then we pray those 6 stay healthy. If they don't we are in trouble.

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Old
03-16-2008, 06:43 PM
  #39
Ola
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TomLaidlaw- Exactly, he needs to become confident within the system and settle down. For a D, thats not a easy part. Heck its half of their game. If he was more poised and natrually after he would have developed chemistry with this team he could defenitly have been a Kenny Jonsson type of player. And he could still become that type of player.

But its not exactly the "needs" you want a late season pickup to have. I defenitly agrees with that. If you "judge" him in that perspective, and I kind of agree that that is what he is, I understand that "awful" comments better.

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03-16-2008, 06:49 PM
  #40
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I think Backman has skills, but he's also a guy who's value has never been as high as it was when he was prospect.

The Rangers actually have quite a bit of first and second round talent on their blue line right now. The challange is always putting it together.

It's what seperates Tyutin from being a good defense, from a great two-way defenseman. Why Mara hasn't becomg the 15 goal, 55 point, 100 pim, poor-man's Kevin Hatcher he could be, etc.

Backman has some serious work to do. Right now he's a servicable defenseman, but he's also reaching the age where he either takes it up a notch or he's going to be a journeyman who moves around as team's find younger, cheaper, higher upside options.

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03-16-2008, 06:59 PM
  #41
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he's not so bad, just give him a chance!

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03-16-2008, 06:59 PM
  #42
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I agree Edge. All I am saying, just like you seem to do, is that he can still put it all together -- maybe.

He is 27 y/o. But he have also had a major injury every season from like when he was 22 till he was 26 y/o. A broken leg, a blown knee, a dislocated shoulder and back injury.

And he have been on a team thats been a complete mess his entire career.

But I defenitly agree wtih you that he could go either way.

Also, on the value was never as high as when he was a prospect part -- about 2 seasons into his NHL career he had really high value. I searched old threads about Bäckman when we got him -- and its not the best indication -- but STL fans were talking about Bäckman for Heatly/Hossa trades at the time...

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03-16-2008, 07:17 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante76 View Post
he's not so bad, just give him a chance!
I always give the new ones a chance, but he is not worth it anymore unless a miracle happens and he turns into an amazing Defenseman, i will root for him cause i am not a hater but sometimes i tend to cringe when he is out there

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