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Top 25 Montreal Canadiens of all time: #8 (READ THE OP!)

View Poll Results: Which of these hockey players has been the best while playing with the Habs?
Toe Blake 2 2.13%
Émile Bouchard 0 0%
Yvan Cournoyer 0 0%
Ken Dryden 30 31.91%
Bill Durnan 1 1.06%
Bob Gainey 0 0%
Bernard Geoffrion 3 3.19%
Aurel Joliat 0 0%
Elmer Lach 0 0%
Newsy Lalonde 0 0%
Guy Lapointe 0 0%
Dickie Moore 1 1.06%
Henri Richard 33 35.11%
Patrick Roy 24 25.53%
Serge Savard 0 0%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-15-2008, 03:26 AM
  #51
Naoned
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Henri Richard
Add Tom Johnson

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Old
03-15-2008, 10:12 AM
  #52
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Pocket Rocket, add Steve Shutt.

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03-15-2008, 10:23 AM
  #53
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Henri Richard. With the most seasons played as a Habs, the most Stanley Cups ever won by a player, he ought to be among the best.

Add : Georges Hainsworth... with all those shutouts, come on guys!

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03-15-2008, 10:27 AM
  #54
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I'm sooo gonna get flamed.

While I understand that Henri's getting a lot of votes because he won 11 Stanley Cups, he has very few accomplishments beyond that. Stanley Cups are team accomplishments, and should only be part of the picture. Aside from being a very good player for a long time, he was never a great player, and was only once the leading scorer on the Habs, among other things.

One All-Star game. One second All-Star nomination. Bill Masterton trophy. Once led Montreal in scoring.

It's not even like Henri was only overshadowed by people already on this list. It was them, as well as others such as Moore, Geoffrion, Cournoyer.

You're telling me that Henri was Montreal's 8th best player? Dryden dominated his position his entire career (which was admitedly shorter), as did Durnan. He was great, but never dominant, and unless you're going to give him the Mark Messier factor (GREATEST LEADER EVER) he doesn't belong at #8 on this list. Maybe #10, maybe. Honestly on my list he's at #12 behind Dryden, Lalonde, Cournoyer and Durnan.

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Old
03-15-2008, 01:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I'm sooo gonna get flamed.

While I understand that Henri's getting a lot of votes because he won 11 Stanley Cups, he has very few accomplishments beyond that. Stanley Cups are team accomplishments, and should only be part of the picture. Aside from being a very good player for a long time, he was never a great player, and was only once the leading scorer on the Habs, among other things.

One All-Star game. One second All-Star nomination. Bill Masterton trophy. Once led Montreal in scoring.

It's not even like Henri was only overshadowed by people already on this list. It was them, as well as others such as Moore, Geoffrion, Cournoyer.

You're telling me that Henri was Montreal's 8th best player? Dryden dominated his position his entire career (which was admitedly shorter), as did Durnan. He was great, but never dominant, and unless you're going to give him the Mark Messier factor (GREATEST LEADER EVER) he doesn't belong at #8 on this list. Maybe #10, maybe. Honestly on my list he's at #12 behind Dryden, Lalonde, Cournoyer and Durnan.
Dryden definitely before Pocket.

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Old
03-15-2008, 01:27 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post


SUGGESTION
Can we do like Top-50 or Top-100. This is really fun. Thanks Eagle.
I agree
that's an amazing job here and I want it to continue

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03-15-2008, 03:09 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
You're telling me that Henri was Montreal's 8th best player? Dryden dominated his position his entire career (which was admitedly shorter), as did Durnan.
Gotta agree, but the lead has changed places...

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03-17-2008, 03:08 AM
  #58
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Guy Carbonneau and Steve Shutt are actually tied at 4 in who to add onto the next round of selection. I need someone (who havn't vote yet) to select one of Carbonneau or Shutt.

Thank You

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Old
03-17-2008, 03:51 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Guy Carbonneau and Steve Shutt are actually tied at 4 in who to add onto the next round of selection. I need someone (who havn't vote yet) to select one of Carbonneau or Shutt.

Thank You
Shutt. Neither is relevant for the next few rounds anyway.

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03-17-2008, 03:58 AM
  #60
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Shutt. Neither is relevant for the next few rounds anyway.
Yea, I should of made a coin toss instead. And now I'm too tired to put the thread up . I'll put the thread up sometime tomorrow. Shutt will be included.

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Old
03-17-2008, 07:11 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I'm sooo gonna get flamed.

While I understand that Henri's getting a lot of votes because he won 11 Stanley Cups, he has very few accomplishments beyond that. Stanley Cups are team accomplishments, and should only be part of the picture. Aside from being a very good player for a long time, he was never a great player, and was only once the leading scorer on the Habs, among other things.

One All-Star game. One second All-Star nomination. Bill Masterton trophy. Once led Montreal in scoring.

It's not even like Henri was only overshadowed by people already on this list. It was them, as well as others such as Moore, Geoffrion, Cournoyer.

You're telling me that Henri was Montreal's 8th best player? Dryden dominated his position his entire career (which was admitedly shorter), as did Durnan. He was great, but never dominant, and unless you're going to give him the Mark Messier factor (GREATEST LEADER EVER) he doesn't belong at #8 on this list. Maybe #10, maybe. Honestly on my list he's at #12 behind Dryden, Lalonde, Cournoyer and Durnan.
Don't forget that for the majority of Henri's career, he wasn't eligible for the all star game. An all star team played the cup winner which usually included Henri.

For the rest, I reluctantly agree. Henri is one of the most interesting characters or at least imo, a guy who was symbolic of what the CH is about, but I can't say that he stands out above 5 or 6 other forwards. He was always in the top 6 or 7 C's in the league,but in a league that only had 18-20 players at his position.

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03-17-2008, 08:18 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Don't forget that for the majority of Henri's career, he wasn't eligible for the all star game. An all star team played the cup winner which usually included Henri.

For the rest, I reluctantly agree. Henri is one of the most interesting characters or at least imo, a guy who was symbolic of what the CH is about, but I can't say that he stands out above 5 or 6 other forwards. He was always in the top 6 or 7 C's in the league,but in a league that only had 18-20 players at his position.
You're right about the ASG, I had failed to consider that. Even with that he still wasn't selected for pretty much the entirety of his "prime" career, most notably from 1961 through 1964 between strings of Cup wins for Montreal.

Something that I just read on Henri's wiki page.. in 1998 he was selected by The Hockey News to be the #29 in the 100 Greatest Hockey Players. I'd bet that all but 2 or 3 of the guys we've listed so far would be below him on that list.

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03-17-2008, 08:44 AM
  #63
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Richard, add Shutt.

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03-17-2008, 08:51 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I'm sooo gonna get flamed.

While I understand that Henri's getting a lot of votes because he won 11 Stanley Cups, he has very few accomplishments beyond that. Stanley Cups are team accomplishments, and should only be part of the picture. Aside from being a very good player for a long time, he was never a great player, and was only once the leading scorer on the Habs, among other things.

One All-Star game. One second All-Star nomination. Bill Masterton trophy. Once led Montreal in scoring.

It's not even like Henri was only overshadowed by people already on this list. It was them, as well as others such as Moore, Geoffrion, Cournoyer.

You're telling me that Henri was Montreal's 8th best player? Dryden dominated his position his entire career (which was admitedly shorter), as did Durnan. He was great, but never dominant, and unless you're going to give him the Mark Messier factor (GREATEST LEADER EVER) he doesn't belong at #8 on this list. Maybe #10, maybe. Honestly on my list he's at #12 behind Dryden, Lalonde, Cournoyer and Durnan.
You're wrong. Ask any old timers and they will tell you Henri Richard was one of the greatest players that's ever played the game. He more than deserved his 8th place.

What's the most surprising is the lack of support for Dickie Moore and Boom Boom. Both of these guys were in the league's Top 5 scorers every year in their prime.

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03-17-2008, 09:03 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
You're wrong. Ask any old timers and they will tell you Henri Richard was one of the greatest players that's ever played the game. He more than deserved his 8th place.

What's the most surprising is the lack of support for Dickie Moore and Boom Boom. Both of these guys were in the league's Top 5 scorers every year in their prime.
You're welcome to have your own opinion. Of the taped games that I've seen (admittedly mostly of later in his career), to me Henri very rarely stood out as the best player on the ice. As I said, he was consistently very good, but to me, when we're talking about greatness, he pales in comparison to some players who accomplished as much (save the Cup wins) in a shorter career. I can only judge on what I see, and what I read (which I usually take with a grain of salt.. Montreal history has a way of making very good players into the best of all-time).

Aside, where do you live in Australia?

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03-17-2008, 09:31 AM
  #66
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You're welcome to have your own opinion. Of the taped games that I've seen (admittedly mostly of later in his career), to me Henri very rarely stood out as the best player on the ice. As I said, he was consistently very good, but to me, when we're talking about greatness, he pales in comparison to some players who accomplished as much (save the Cup wins) in a shorter career. I can only judge on what I see, and what I read (which I usually take with a grain of salt.. Montreal history has a way of making very good players into the best of all-time).
Trust me, i've had uncles, friends of uncles that told me great tales of Henri and his accomplishement. He was one of the true great. I would never ever consider Dryden a great one, though.

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Aside, where do you live in Australia?
I'm not from Australia!

Look at the city inscription: I made a bad joke and wrote "Quebec city, Australia".

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03-17-2008, 09:37 AM
  #67
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I'm not from Australia!

Look at the city inscription: I made a bad joke and wrote "Quebec city, Australia".
I'm always looking for Habs fans in Australia. I spend 2-3 months there every couple years and am constantly on the lookout for places/ways to watch the games on a television.

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03-17-2008, 09:41 AM
  #68
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I'm always looking for Habs fans in Australia. I spend 2-3 months there every couple years and am constantly on the lookout for places/ways to watch the games on a television.
You spend time in Australia? Lucky guy. I wish I would have the chance to go there someday.

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03-17-2008, 09:42 AM
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You spend time in Australia? Lucky guy. I wish I would have the chance to go there someday.
It's great. It's like Canada.. but it isn't cold (except down south, where it's like England cold.. rainy and 3 degrees or so in winter). No hockey coverage though.. that's the worst part.

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03-17-2008, 09:48 AM
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It's great. It's like Canada.. but it isn't cold (except down south, where it's like England cold.. rainy and 3 degrees or so in winter). No hockey coverage though.. that's the worst part.
Do Kangoroos taste good?

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03-17-2008, 09:49 AM
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Trust me, i've had uncles, friends of uncles that told me great tales of Henri and his accomplishement. He was one of the true great. I would never ever consider Dryden a great one, though.



I'm not from Australia!

Look at the city inscription: I made a bad joke and wrote "Quebec city, Australia".
If Richard played today, we'd have posters whining about how he never shoots, hangs onto the puck too long, was too small etc. Dyden was in the arguemnet as best goalie during his entire career. The only knock against him was that his team was so strong. You could use the same false arguement and say that Richard broke into the league with linemates like Moore and his brother Maurice.

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03-17-2008, 10:03 AM
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If Richard played today, we'd have posters whining about how he never shoots, hangs onto the puck too long, was too small etc. Dyden was in the arguemnet as best goalie during his entire career. The only knock against him was that his team was so strong. You could use the same false arguement and say that Richard broke into the league with linemates like Moore and his brother Maurice.
If Henri played today he would easily be the Habs' first scorer. He came up at a time when the well of Quebec-born players was astounding in quality and quantity. That's the only activity boys would do in those days. Minor leagues were stacked with talent and some of them could have even beat the Habs. And even with all this Henri made it in the league and with the league's elite club the Montreal Canadiens. I mean you would have to be uber-talented to accomplish this.

You really should have discussions with old timers. Everytime I bring up how great Maurice Richard was, they fire right back "but don't forget Henri, he was great too. He was as great...but different". I always question these words but I wasn't there, they were.

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03-17-2008, 01:20 PM
  #73
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Do Kangoroos taste good?
No. Tastes really gamey. Emu is decent, and Alligator stew is very tasty.

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03-17-2008, 01:57 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
If Henri played today he would easily be the Habs' first scorer. He came up at a time when the well of Quebec-born players was astounding in quality and quantity. That's the only activity boys would do in those days. Minor leagues were stacked with talent and some of them could have even beat the Habs. And even with all this Henri made it in the league and with the league's elite club the Montreal Canadiens. I mean you would have to be uber-talented to accomplish this.

You really should have discussions with old timers. Everytime I bring up how great Maurice Richard was, they fire right back "but don't forget Henri, he was great too. He was as great...but different". I always question these words but I wasn't there, they were.
I got to see more than 1/2 of Henri's career, and I have a good sense of how good he was and like you, I had enough elders to tell me how great the generation before was.

Keep in mind that other teams had similar situations in terms of talent. Just from meory in the early 60's, 1-2 at center, Mtl had Beliveau-Richard, Toronto had Kelly-Keon, Detroit had Delvecchio-Ullman, Chicago had Hay-Mikita.

You could have rated Richard anywhere in that group, depending on what color glasses you were wearing.

I would never diminish Richard as a player. I've posted before how he had a lot of similarities to Koivu, just a different situation. Both guys were primarily play makers, feisty little guys, both had pride oozing out of every pore. For a lot of reasons, things developed differently for them, but there are some things in common.

I went with Dryden because of the way he just arrived in the NHL: and was dominant. Always. I just don't buy into teh arguement that he just happened to be on a great team. He had 1 cup that could be compared to 86 or 93, you know when you're an underdog [71]. Maybe the 70's Habs in part were as great as they were because of great goaltending. The big 3 could join the rush if they knew Kenny would make the save. You can't use the team arguement to lessen Dryden's impact without doing it for the rest of the team. Did Lafleur have an inflated assist total because no one banged in rebounds like Steve Shutt ?

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03-17-2008, 03:34 PM
  #75
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I got to see more than 1/2 of Henri's career, and I have a good sense of how good he was and like you, I had enough elders to tell me how great the generation before was.

Keep in mind that other teams had similar situations in terms of talent. Just from meory in the early 60's, 1-2 at center, Mtl had Beliveau-Richard, Toronto had Kelly-Keon, Detroit had Delvecchio-Ullman, Chicago had Hay-Mikita.

You could have rated Richard anywhere in that group, depending on what color glasses you were wearing.

I would never diminish Richard as a player. I've posted before how he had a lot of similarities to Koivu, just a different situation. Both guys were primarily play makers, feisty little guys, both had pride oozing out of every pore. For a lot of reasons, things developed differently for them, but there are some things in common.

I went with Dryden because of the way he just arrived in the NHL: and was dominant. Always. I just don't buy into teh arguement that he just happened to be on a great team. He had 1 cup that could be compared to 86 or 93, you know when you're an underdog [71]. Maybe the 70's Habs in part were as great as they were because of great goaltending. The big 3 could join the rush if they knew Kenny would make the save. You can't use the team arguement to lessen Dryden's impact without doing it for the rest of the team. Did Lafleur have an inflated assist total because no one banged in rebounds like Steve Shutt ?
Its pretty telling that when he left the team in semi-retirement they couldn't win without him and when he retired for good it was the end of the team's dominance.

That's not coincidental.

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