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Opinion: Would you trade Price for the 1st overall pick of 2008?

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Old
03-17-2008, 05:44 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
That is an EXTREME example.

Holmqvist and Denis are quite possibly in the running for Top-3 worst NHL goalies, not just starters. Ramo hasn't been anything good either. Hell, Holmqvist, Denis and even Ramo (to this point) are probably worse than 3/4 of the AHL goalies.

If we did move Price for a Jonathan Toews, we'd still have Jaroslav Halak, who is on his way to at least, in my opinion, a Top-15 NHL goalie status in the next few years.
Halak is decent, and is projected to be a 1A goalie, which is like, Andrew Raycroft/Damian Rhodes and Ron Tugnutt back in the Ottawa days. Good to battle for a number one position, but when they get it, they can't really handle the work load. Huet is also a 1A goalie (Damn, I miss him.)

The Los Angles Kings are 13th, and probably could make it into the top 10 in goals for by the end of the year. Why are they so bad? Lack of goaltending.

True, you can say Buffalo has Miller, Islanders have DiPietro and they still suck, but they've had extensive man games lost (possibly LA too?)

Sorry for rambling on, but the point is, when your team is respectively health, game in and game out, a good goalie can steal games for you, and get you those extra points to squeeze into the playoffs.

Consistenly good goalies are becoming harder to get, imo. But seems like theres always a hot forward, or defensive prospect out there.

Take a look at Boston when they were hot, Thomas had a big role in that, when they got blown out of the water, Thomas had a lot to do with that.

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Old
03-17-2008, 05:49 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Halak is decent, and is projected to be a 1A goalie, which is like, Andrew Raycroft/Damian Rhodes and Ron Tugnutt back in the Ottawa days. Good to battle for a number one position, but when they get it, they can't really handle the work load. Huet is also a 1A goalie
I just don't see how you can say that Halak can't handle the work-load. Never once in his career, have I seen any evidence of this, what-so-ever.

I guess there is no point in arguing.. because if people don't want to believe in what Halak has done up this point.. that's their problem. Just more people for me to rag on when he's hoisting a Stanley Cup as the man.

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Old
03-17-2008, 06:10 PM
  #78
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To be able to play 40 games a season in the NHL and do it with a decent record, is still good.

Not saying that's all he's going to be, just saying he's projected to be a 1A goalie. Well, he hoist a cup?hopefully. With Montreal? Great. As the man and in Montreal, he'll have to work extremely hard to get the main job, but as long as Price is here, he will never reign as the pure number 1 and he will never play 65-70 games a season.

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Old
03-17-2008, 06:13 PM
  #79
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I would keep Price.

I would trade Price 1vs1 for Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin.

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Old
03-17-2008, 06:41 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think guys like Mueller and Doan had as much to do with the turnaround.

Bryzgalov to me is an average NHL starter, if he puts up stats like that yearly, then I'll have to change my opinion of him...but not yet.
Being from the west and getting the privilege of watching the conference, i can tell you, he is a legit top 15 goalie and possibly, a top ten goalie. Of course you'd like to see this over a stretch of a few years, however at present time, he is a legit goalie and playing better than most.

He is the one who has stabilized Phoenix.

As for the the question, Tavares yes, Stamkos NO. I have enough confidence that Halak is a potential top ten goalie in the league.

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:13 PM
  #81
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Nope.....

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:21 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarovski View Post
I would keep Price.

I would trade Price 1vs1 for Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin.
Gainey wouldn't get the chance to do so even if he wanted to.

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:32 PM
  #83
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Star?

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Right now he's 10th in the league in GAA and 2nd in the league in SV%. He's also 12th in wins and 15th in shutouts on a non-playoff team.

The two previous seasons he was 13th/7th in GAA and 13th/21st in SV%, respectively.

In three NHL seasons, he's averaged 10th in GAA and 12th in SV%. He's improving as a goalie and this year he's been a Top-10 goalie in the league.

I can't see how he's just an average starter when he's getting better each season .. that'd be like calling Carey Price a low-end starter because he hasn't reached his peak yet (or been in the league long-enough to put up solid stats).


The only concern I have about Bryzgalov is as follows, so far we have seen him play amazing in highlight reels but this is the first +30 start season for the guy.

Secondarily, for a fellow with a high SV% and low GAA, don't you find it surprising he's below .500 in winning percentage 51-41-11 (OTL I consider losses). Thats not what I call a superstar goalie yet. He needs to give me one more year before I consider him more than a Jim Carey or Steve Weekes with a quirkier attitude.

Anyways in regards to the question at Hand

Price for Stamkos NO
Price for Tavares YES

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Old
03-17-2008, 10:56 PM
  #84
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Just wanted to let you guys know that Price is not a hockey god.

I would trade for the 1st pick simply because I think that Halak would be an extremely capable goalie.

This city has an extrerme hard-on for Price and it's to the point where it's becoming delusional.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, if he does pan out I'll be extremly ecstatic but I'm not convinced yet.


Last edited by Claude Lemieux: 03-17-2008 at 11:07 PM.
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Old
03-18-2008, 01:42 AM
  #85
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Tavares is only 4 days off from the 2008 draft and according to TSN 7 out 10 scouts would rather choose Stamkos over Tavares and most would place him at #3 if he was eligible for the 08 draft.
I'm not sold on the Tavares thing yet. I'm more impressed by players like Stamkos, Drew Doughty and Nikita Filatov than Tavares.

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Old
03-18-2008, 02:02 AM
  #86
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Price could possibly be the #1 in this draft. I mean he is really the #2 in the 2005 draft, maybe #3 after Kopitar. And that draft was seen as much stronger than this one.

Franchise goalie > Franchise centre

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Old
03-18-2008, 02:16 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRocketR View Post
Tavares is only 4 days off from the 2008 draft and according to TSN 7 out 10 scouts would rather choose Stamkos over Tavares and most would place him at #3 if he was eligible for the 08 draft.
I'm not sold on the Tavares thing yet. I'm more impressed by players like Stamkos, Drew Doughty and Nikita Filatov than Tavares.
Seriously...Stamkos is going to be waaaay better than Tavares.. i see tavares as going to be an injury prone type player, i got a feeling

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Price could possibly be the #1 in this draft. I mean he is really the #2 in the 2005 draft, maybe #3 after Kopitar. And that draft was seen as much stronger than this one.

Franchise goalie > Franchise centre
Imagin, what if, by some miracle, price wins 2 cups in his career with montreal, crosby never wins one in his career (LETS JUST SAY)

DOES Carey Price, when were going to be talking about this in 2039, get viewed as the true number 1 overal pick in the 2005 draft, and crosby be 2nd?

CAN this ever happen?


Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-18-2008 at 07:09 AM.
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Old
03-18-2008, 02:52 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Imagin, what if, by some miracle, price wins 2 cups in his career with montreal, crosby never wins one in his career (LETS JUST SAY)

DOES Carey Price, when were going to be talking about this in 2039, get viewed as the true number 1 overal pick in the 2005 draft, and crosby be 2nd?

CAN this ever happen?
Of course, Cups are the only thing that matter. This is assuming Carey is a pivotal part of the run, and even a Conn Smythe winner. If yes, then no question about it.

2 Cups >>>>>>>>> 2,000+ point career with no Cups

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Old
03-18-2008, 02:57 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Of course, Cups are the only thing that matter. This is assuming Carey is a pivotal part of the run, and even a Conn Smythe winner. If yes, then no question about it.

2 Cups >>>>>>>>> 2,000+ point career with no Cups
easy there tiger, plenty of players have 2 cups and are not remembered. If a players hits 2000 pts that will be remembered for a long long long time.

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03-18-2008, 03:06 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dead View Post
easy there tiger, plenty of players have 2 cups and are not remembered. If a players hits 2000 pts that will be remembered for a long long long time.
Remembered as the guy who got 2,000 points and no Cups. Believe me, it would ALWAYS be mentioned along with the 2,000 points.

Ask any hockey player in the league what they would rather have to their repertoire.

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03-18-2008, 03:09 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Imagin, what if, by some miracle, price wins 2 cups in his career with montreal, crosby never wins one in his career (LETS JUST SAY)

DOES Carey Price, when were going to be talking about this in 2039, get viewed as the true number 1 overal pick in the 2005 draft, and crosby be 2nd?

CAN this ever happen?
this is the original post, so Price has a regular career and wins 2 cups but Crosby becomes the 2nd all time in points, Price would become the true #1 pick? are you being serious le_sean?

the post isn't about what's more important to a player, the cup or points. every player would choose the cup.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-18-2008 at 07:10 AM.
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Old
03-18-2008, 03:18 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead View Post
the post isn't about what's more important to a player, the cup or points. every player would choose the cup.
Why don't you just edit your first post instead of posting again?

If Price wins 2 Conn Smythes on the way to 2 Cups then yes he will automatically be the better player of the two. If he doesn't win Conn Smythes then probably not.

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03-18-2008, 03:25 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Why don't you just edit your first post instead of posting again?

If Price wins 2 Conn Smythes on the way to 2 Cups then yes he will automatically be the better player of the two. If he doesn't win Conn Smythes then probably not.
so Mike Vernon's career stats > Crosby 2,000+ points

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Why don't you just edit your first post instead of posting again?

If Price wins 2 Conn Smythes on the way to 2 Cups then yes he will automatically be the better player of the two. If he doesn't win Conn Smythes then probably not.
cause it's 2 diff. posts


Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-18-2008 at 07:11 AM.
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Old
03-18-2008, 03:51 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dead View Post
so Mike Vernon's career stats > Crosby 2,000+ points
Well I said 2 Conn Smythes. But either way if Crosby doesn't win a Cup then yes Mike Vernon's career is more successful. Will it be remembered more than Crosby's? No because Crosby was so hyped up and still got 2,000 points. But every single time he is mentioned, the fact he never won a Cup will be mentioned too. At least in my books anyways.

Playoffs mean the most. If you gave me the choice between Brad Richards and Joe Thornton come playoff time I'd say Richards easily. If you gave me the choice between Ward or Luongo come playoff time I'd say Ward. It's the only thing that matters and those players have proved themselves already.

And you can talk about two different things in the same post, like I'm doing here, much easier.

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03-18-2008, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Well I said 2 Conn Smythes. But either way if Crosby doesn't win a Cup then yes Mike Vernon's career is more successful. Will it be remembered more than Crosby's? No because Crosby was so hyped up and still got 2,000 points. But every single time he is mentioned, the fact he never won a Cup will be mentioned too. At least in my books anyways.

Playoffs mean the most. If you gave me the choice between Brad Richards and Joe Thornton come playoff time I'd say Richards easily. If you gave me the choice between Ward or Luongo come playoff time I'd say Ward. It's the only thing that matters and those players have proved themselves already.
And you can talk about two different things in the same post, like I'm doing here, much easier.

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03-18-2008, 04:12 AM
  #96
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What? What has Luongo ever won? Please tell me. I remember him losing in the playoffs, putting his arm up and getting distracted by a non-call and then a weak goal going in.

Ward came in and carried the Canes to the Cup and was incredible. He proved to me he was clutch. Disregard the regular season as the #1 defenceman in Carolina is either Glen Wesley or Frantisek Kaberle.

You can't tell me Luongo is better because you have no proof, he has never won anything in the NHL. Regular season stats don't count and playoff stats don't count because he couldn't even get passed the 2nd round. He's a good goalie, but I'd still take Ward over him in a playoff run. If Luongo wins a Cup then maybe I'd reconsider. Right now there really isn't anything you could say or any stats you can show me that will make me change my mind.

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03-18-2008, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
What? What has Luongo ever won? Please tell me. I remember him losing in the playoffs, putting his arm up and getting distracted by a non-call and then a weak goal going in.

Ward came in and carried the Canes to the Cup and was incredible. He proved to me he was clutch. Disregard the regular season as the #1 defenceman in Carolina is either Glen Wesley or Frantisek Kaberle.


You can't tell me Luongo is better because you have no proof, he has never won anything in the NHL. Regular season stats don't count and playoff stats don't count because he couldn't even get passed the 2nd round. He's a good goalie, but I'd still take Ward over him in a playoff run. If Luongo wins a Cup then maybe I'd reconsider. Right now there really isn't anything you could say or any stats you can show me that will make me change my mind.
1 Player doesn't equal Stanley Cup. The team wins. Team<---.

Even us in 93. There was a whole bunch of players contributing to the wins.

Carolina 95-96>Florida Luongo years.
Carolina 95-96>Vancouver Luongo years.

Proof? Look at stats and ask or even make a poll with Luongo vs. Ward. I would love to see the results.

What has Ward done since the cup run?

When Ward got the task to carry the load after they got rid of Gerber what happened?

They didn't even make the playoffs.

If you think that Ward is Better than Luongo, you are probably in the minority of people, im pretty sure that even nhl players would put Luongo before Ward.

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Old
03-18-2008, 04:33 AM
  #98
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le_sean, I was siding with you and then you went off the charts and said Ward over Luongo.

thats crazy talk.
Luongo never once has had a team that scores goals. give him a team with players who can constantly put the puck in the net and he will go far. Like Dead said, its not one player who makes a team win a cup, no matter how good that one player is.

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03-18-2008, 04:34 AM
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O yeah and I wonder who all the people in charge of Team Canada are gonna choose to be the number one goalie.

Luongo or Ward, hmmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
le_sean, I was siding with you and then you went off the charts and said Ward over Luongo.

thats crazy talk.
Luongo never once has had a team that scores goals. give him a team with players who can constantly put the puck in the net and he will go far. Like Dead said, its not one player who makes a team win a cup, no matter how good that one player is.
Gretzky is the proof imo. Best player of all time to most hockey fans. No cups since he left Edmonton.

Team above player all the time.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-18-2008 at 07:16 AM.
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03-18-2008, 07:24 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRocketR View Post
Tavares is only 4 days off from the 2008 draft and according to TSN 7 out 10 scouts would rather choose Stamkos over Tavares and most would place him at #3 if he was eligible for the 08 draft.
I'm not sold on the Tavares thing yet. I'm more impressed by players like Stamkos, Drew Doughty and Nikita Filatov than Tavares.
Its easy for those 7 scouts to pump up the 2008 eligible players when Tavares isn't eligible till 2009. I think if Tavares actually was eligible this year, they'd be singing a different tune. Ive seen quite a bit of both, been live to games here in Kingston with both, and Tavares has outperformed Stamkos IMO. Sure I've only seen a small sample, but I think Tavares was better at the WJC, in games I've seen, and his overall OHL production is far better too, has been both this year and last. Tavares to me is gonna be every bit as good as the hype says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Seriously...Stamkos is going to be waaaay better than Tavares.. i see tavares as going to be an injury prone type player, i got a feeling.
You've got a feeling?? Based on what exactly?? Cause as far as I can tell Tavares was playing in the OHL since he was 15 and has never had any kind of significant injury.... Is there anything concrete to back up this feeling?? If you were a scout would you put your job on the line saying Stamkos>>Tavares based on this injury prone feeling.

We've all seen Bob McKenzie's report that some scouts are saying they'd take Stamkos over Tavares if they were both 2008 eligible... Again, I don't buy it. I think its a case where they are hyping up the 2008 draft over the 2009 one just cause 2008 is gonna be here first. They know the NHL will never make an exception to let Tavares in early, and they want to say, look our pick is just as good or better. If he actually was a 2008, i think things would be ranked differently.

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