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Old
03-18-2008, 01:52 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Jeffonfire View Post

^ Sens fan
Why do you have to insult that fat kid singing pokemon?

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Old
03-18-2008, 01:59 PM
  #102
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Si c'est le cas tu devrais peut-être passé a quelque reprise sur ton texte, espérant qu'il ne soit pas écrit à l'encre... sinon j'ai un ami qui est un liquidpaper

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Old
03-18-2008, 02:28 PM
  #103
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I'll tell you exactly what the problem with today's music is:

1) Role models. This is something that is increasingly important in today's world as kids grow up idolizing whatever popular or "bad boy" star there is out there. When you have so many negative elements in that music, you can bet that it turns kids into little punks.

2) Seeing as how hip-hop/Rap is predominantly present in popular culture (and im talking stuff that they show on MTV and what not, not the underground stuff) and that has so many negative and violent elements to it *cough* 50 cent *cough*.

3) How women, others etc are portrayed through this music. Im sorry, but again, predominantly, popular music has this incredibly dumb idea of how women are treated. I dont see what's cool OR smart about saying: my ******s suck my d*ck, i smoke my weed and kill the ni**ers that get in my way! And that should, plain and simple, not be accepted.

Let's face it, popular music perpetrates dumbness. "Mix 96, today's best music" what? are you ****ing kidding me? And you know what? Lots of people believe that.

And that is what's wrong with today's music.

If someone puts together a song that has a meaningful message, it be positive, or an actual cultural criticism (eg: criticizing the US gov etc) that's ok. Because it causes you to think. And that's what rap should be (should i point out that Bob Dylan invented Rap?), a positive or intelligent message. Not the dumb down stuff that you hear today on the radio the idiot box.

I cant recall any of the hard metal/hardcore music i listen to that pushes the idea of killing each other. As a matter of fact, many of those bands happen to be religious (which is another debate, but at least it's not in a negative way).

Anyways, hip hop/rap acquired the reputation it has today because of itself. If there werent all these dumbasses who made money out of it, there wouldnt be any of that garbage.

The music industry is a twisted ****ed up child.

For fun, i suggest some of you guys skip on over here:

The problem with music

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Old
03-18-2008, 02:48 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
I'll tell you exactly what the problem with today's music is:

1) Role models. This is something that is increasingly important in today's world as kids grow up idolizing whatever popular or "bad boy" star there is out there. When you have so many negative elements in that music, you can bet that it turns kids into little punks.

2) Seeing as how hip-hop/Rap is predominantly present in popular culture (and im talking stuff that they show on MTV and what not, not the underground stuff) and that has so many negative and violent elements to it *cough* 50 cent *cough*.

3) How women, others etc are portrayed through this music. Im sorry, but again, predominantly, popular music has this incredibly dumb idea of how women are treated. I dont see what's cool OR smart about saying: my ******s suck my d*ck, i smoke my weed and kill the ni**ers that get in my way! And that should, plain and simple, not be accepted.

Let's face it, popular music perpetrates dumbness. "Mix 96, today's best music" what? are you ****ing kidding me? And you know what? Lots of people believe that.

And that is what's wrong with today's music.

If someone puts together a song that has a meaningful message, it be positive, or an actual cultural criticism (eg: criticizing the US gov etc) that's ok. Because it causes you to think. And that's what rap should be (should i point out that Bob Dylan invented Rap?), a positive or intelligent message. Not the dumb down stuff that you hear today on the radio the idiot box.

I cant recall any of the hard metal/hardcore music i listen to that pushes the idea of killing each other. As a matter of fact, many of those bands happen to be religious (which is another debate, but at least it's not in a negative way).

Anyways, hip hop/rap acquired the reputation it has today because of itself. If there werent all these dumbasses who made money out of it, there wouldnt be any of that garbage.

The music industry is a twisted ****ed up child.

For fun, i suggest some of you guys skip on over here:

The problem with music

My only beef is that you like many others refuse to make the difference between hip hop and rap

its not hiphop/rap as they have never stood side by side in meaning

its hip hop OR rap

and what you are describing is

Rap

but yeah... and don't blame these uneducated dumbasses who are offered millions for making ***** like "Yaaah Trick Yaaaah!" They came from poverty/had nothing someone gave them a heck of alot.

Blame the idiot White male owners (well they're not that stupid actually) who give them the money so they can perpetuate this idiocy to the masses of black children who know they are smarter/better then the ones on MTV and will now waste their intelligence/time and effort trying to "make it" (instead of being like most of us and getting a normal job and perpetuating a culture of education among their family and respective communities)

Educational Stuff on this subject

Watch Boondocks (TV Series)
Listen to Lupe Fiasco - Dumb It Down
Read This: http://forums.fortminor.com/showthre...32661&posted=1

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Old
03-18-2008, 02:49 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
This thread, if anything, made me realize how much the West-Island has changed...
NDG isn't part of the West-Island...

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Old
03-18-2008, 03:00 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
I'll tell you exactly what the problem with today's music is:

1) Role models. This is something that is increasingly important in today's world as kids grow up idolizing whatever popular or "bad boy" star there is out there. When you have so many negative elements in that music, you can bet that it turns kids into little punks.

2) Seeing as how hip-hop/Rap is predominantly present in popular culture (and im talking stuff that they show on MTV and what not, not the underground stuff) and that has so many negative and violent elements to it *cough* 50 cent *cough*.

3) How women, others etc are portrayed through this music. Im sorry, but again, predominantly, popular music has this incredibly dumb idea of how women are treated. I dont see what's cool OR smart about saying: my ******s suck my d*ck, i smoke my weed and kill the ni**ers that get in my way! And that should, plain and simple, not be accepted.

Let's face it, popular music perpetrates dumbness. "Mix 96, today's best music" what? are you ****ing kidding me? And you know what? Lots of people believe that.

And that is what's wrong with today's music.

If someone puts together a song that has a meaningful message, it be positive, or an actual cultural criticism (eg: criticizing the US gov etc) that's ok. Because it causes you to think. And that's what rap should be (should i point out that Bob Dylan invented Rap?), a positive or intelligent message. Not the dumb down stuff that you hear today on the radio the idiot box.

I cant recall any of the hard metal/hardcore music i listen to that pushes the idea of killing each other. As a matter of fact, many of those bands happen to be religious (which is another debate, but at least it's not in a negative way).

Anyways, hip hop/rap acquired the reputation it has today because of itself. If there werent all these dumbasses who made money out of it, there wouldnt be any of that garbage.

The music industry is a twisted ****ed up child.

For fun, i suggest some of you guys skip on over here:

The problem with music
Wow...i'm amazed, I thought I had read it all

Bob Dylan invented rap? Ok sure, try Gil Heron Scott, it was then turned into a different form by Kurtis Blow.

There is a message in hip hop, you don't like the way it's put across, that's the difference. Hip Hop might be the most raw type of music, when people talk rap about drugs, guns and all that other non sense (don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the glorification of it) it to talk about the conditions they live in, sure there are some artist like 50 cent who glorify it, and that's the problem I have. However, if you go back to Grandmaster Flash with the song "The message" it's always been about telling a story, alot of these people don't live on Park avenue. They come from tough neighborhoods where they do what they have to do to survive and they tell that story in their music. It doesn't make it right or wrong, it just is what it is.

1) Role models - They should be your parents, not some artist on MTV. I've listened to hip hop all my life, it has influenced certain aspects of my life, however, I have parents who brought me up the right way and taught me right from wrong. Music, of all genres, is just entertainment, it's not a way of life. If you're not smart enough to make that distinction, then that's your problem. Not 50 cent's...

2) see my post above...videos/songs are for entertainment, they're not a handbook for how to live your life.

3)Women have been objectified since the beginning of time, trying to use hip hop as the scapegoat is just an easy way out and a way to totally ignore the problem

Yuo can't recall any of the hard core/metal music that portrays negative images?

Ever listen to Marilyn Manson (not really familiar with metal, just picked a name), I did some lyrics reasearch, here's what I came up with from one song, and I assume alot of his other music is the same

Everybody's someone else's n***er/I know you are so am I
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers/
I don't need to choose a side
I better, better, better, better not say this
better, better, better, better not tell
I hate the hater, I'd r**e the r***r
I am the idiot who will not be himself
****** it

I could of went on there, that was actually some pretty tame stuff comapred to what else I found

There's PLENTY of counscious hip hop, but it's the consumer who decides what they want to listen to. The consumer decides what's popular, so that means the problem is much deeper than hip hop, the problem is at home.

I get so sick of people using hip hop as a scapegoat for their own failures

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Old
03-18-2008, 03:03 PM
  #107
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Gainey

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Old
03-18-2008, 03:10 PM
  #108
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«salutations à Vanessa Paradis» - Roi Heenok.

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Old
03-18-2008, 03:18 PM
  #109
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I wish music stayed that way, it would be a way more devastating and subversive world than the "Danse le *********" world (wich i hate).

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Old
03-18-2008, 03:56 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Wow...i'm amazed, I thought I had read it all

Bob Dylan invented rap? Ok sure, try Gil Heron Scott, it was then turned into a different form by Kurtis Blow.

There is a message in hip hop, you don't like the way it's put across, that's the difference. Hip Hop might be the most raw type of music, when people talk rap about drugs, guns and all that other non sense (don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the glorification of it) it to talk about the conditions they live in, sure there are some artist like 50 cent who glorify it, and that's the problem I have. However, if you go back to Grandmaster Flash with the song "The message" it's always been about telling a story, alot of these people don't live on Park avenue. They come from tough neighborhoods where they do what they have to do to survive and they tell that story in their music. It doesn't make it right or wrong, it just is what it is.

1) Role models - They should be your parents, not some artist on MTV. I've listened to hip hop all my life, it has influenced certain aspects of my life, however, I have parents who brought me up the right way and taught me right from wrong. Music, of all genres, is just entertainment, it's not a way of life. If you're not smart enough to make that distinction, then that's your problem. Not 50 cent's...

2) see my post above...videos/songs are for entertainment, they're not a handbook for how to live your life.

3)Women have been objectified since the beginning of time, trying to use hip hop as the scapegoat is just an easy way out and a way to totally ignore the problem

Yuo can't recall any of the hard core/metal music that portrays negative images?

Ever listen to Marilyn Manson (not really familiar with metal, just picked a name), I did some lyrics reasearch, here's what I came up with from one song, and I assume alot of his other music is the same

Everybody's someone else's n***er/I know you are so am I
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers/
I don't need to choose a side
I better, better, better, better not say this
better, better, better, better not tell
I hate the hater, I'd r**e the r***r
I am the idiot who will not be himself
****** it

I could of went on there, that was actually some pretty tame stuff comapred to what else I found

There's PLENTY of counscious hip hop, but it's the consumer who decides what they want to listen to. The consumer decides what's popular, so that means the problem is much deeper than hip hop, the problem is at home.

I get so sick of people using hip hop as a scapegoat for their own failures
ah. well then you, my friend, are a victim of the same ignorance you portray disliking.

1) for some reason, i knew someone would bring up Manson. Manson is not good music. Anybody smart enough knows that. Manson is mainstream. Anything that gets picked up by mainstream gets liquified by the system. What i was saying is i dont remember listening to metal (well you know, the real stuff. Shadows Fall sort of thing) and not hearing the kind of messages artists like 50 cents have.

See my problem lies in the cultural industry that is popular culture. I have a problem with 50 Cents and his clones (Chamillionaire or whatever else).

If YOU think that people who idolize these people arent smart enough, well then you're perfectly right. Because guess what? 12 years olds dont know better. And yes, it's true, it comes down to parenting. Perhaps you were lucky enough to have gotten the proper kind. Not everyone's that lucky, and as time goes by, kids are (and to quote The Offspring) "kids who raise themselves". And that's a huge problem.

To say that rap like 50 cent doesnt have an impact on people is just plain stupid, because it does. Hugely too.

And whether you like it or not, artists in today's world play an important role in our youth culture. To deny this is just plain ignorance on your part. So yes, these artists have an important responsibility that some, obviously, do not realize. Do you think guys like 50 cent dont know that they are influencial?

You might be smarter then the guy next to you, but what tells you that he is?

Im not blaming rap/hip-hop/music in specific. We have a huge problem today and it doesnt help that these different genres perpetuate the negative message.

And objectifying women has no place in society. It was not always this way and doesnt have to be either. It's wrong that people stand for it or say ******** like "it's always been this way, so you're not gonna change it" To people who think like that, im sending you a big **** you.

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Old
03-18-2008, 04:42 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
ah. well then you, my friend, are a victim of the same ignorance you portray disliking.

1) for some reason, i knew someone would bring up Manson. Manson is not good music. Anybody smart enough knows that. Manson is mainstream. Anything that gets picked up by mainstream gets liquified by the system. What i was saying is i dont remember listening to metal (well you know, the real stuff. Shadows Fall sort of thing) and not hearing the kind of messages artists like 50 cents have.

See my problem lies in the cultural industry that is popular culture. I have a problem with 50 Cents and his clones (Chamillionaire or whatever else).

If YOU think that people who idolize these people arent smart enough, well then you're perfectly right. Because guess what? 12 years olds dont know better. And yes, it's true, it comes down to parenting. Perhaps you were lucky enough to have gotten the proper kind. Not everyone's that lucky, and as time goes by, kids are (and to quote The Offspring) "kids who raise themselves". And that's a huge problem.

To say that rap like 50 cent doesnt have an impact on people is just plain stupid, because it does. Hugely too.

And whether you like it or not, artists in today's world play an important role in our youth culture. To deny this is just plain ignorance on your part. So yes, these artists have an important responsibility that some, obviously, do not realize. Do you think guys like 50 cent dont know that they are influencial?

You might be smarter then the guy next to you, but what tells you that he is?

Im not blaming rap/hip-hop/music in specific. We have a huge problem today and it doesnt help that these different genres perpetuate the negative message.

And objectifying women has no place in society. It was not always this way and doesnt have to be either. It's wrong that people stand for it or say ******** like "it's always been this way, so you're not gonna change it" To people who think like that, im sending you a big **** you.
for frigg sakes... its NOT HIP HOP!! ITS RAP!!

other than that both of you have valid points

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Old
03-18-2008, 04:46 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
ah. well then you, my friend, are a victim of the same ignorance you portray disliking.

1) for some reason, i knew someone would bring up Manson. Manson is not good music. Anybody smart enough knows that. Manson is mainstream. Anything that gets picked up by mainstream gets liquified by the system. What i was saying is i dont remember listening to metal (well you know, the real stuff. Shadows Fall sort of thing) and not hearing the kind of messages artists like 50 cents have.

See my problem lies in the cultural industry that is popular culture. I have a problem with 50 Cents and his clones (Chamillionaire or whatever else).

If YOU think that people who idolize these people arent smart enough, well then you're perfectly right. Because guess what? 12 years olds dont know better. And yes, it's true, it comes down to parenting. Perhaps you were lucky enough to have gotten the proper kind. Not everyone's that lucky, and as time goes by, kids are (and to quote The Offspring) "kids who raise themselves". And that's a huge problem.

To say that rap like 50 cent doesnt have an impact on people is just plain stupid, because it does. Hugely too.

And whether you like it or not, artists in today's world play an important role in our youth culture. To deny this is just plain ignorance on your part. So yes, these artists have an important responsibility that some, obviously, do not realize. Do you think guys like 50 cent dont know that they are influencial?

You might be smarter then the guy next to you, but what tells you that he is?

Im not blaming rap/hip-hop/music in specific. We have a huge problem today and it doesnt help that these different genres perpetuate the negative message.

And objectifying women has no place in society. It was not always this way and doesnt have to be either. It's wrong that people stand for it or say ******** like "it's always been this way, so you're not gonna change it" To people who think like that, im sending you a big **** you.
1) So Manson isn't a good example because he's mainstream? But 50 cent isn't mainstream? So Manson doesn't represent metal/hardcore as a whole, but 50 cent does for hip hop? Am I the only one who notices the double standard? That's not surprising though. Like you said, there's metal that's 'real' and I say, there's hip hop/rap, that's 'real' too and doesn't have the negative message...However, MTV, Muchmusic, BET, etc, they don't choose to play that...Furthermore, society as a whole (the youth today) don't seem to want to hear the positive message

Also, Chammilionaire is nothing like 50 cent...quite the opposite actually. But what does it matter to you if you already have a pre-conceived notion?

Also, I never said 50 cent doesn't influence people, for sure he does, that's the problem. People, mainly young people, don't have the right role models, TV has become the parent for this generation. But it's not 50 cents job to tone down his lyrics, he raps about what he knows, whether I or you agree with it is inconsequential. He's trying to sell records, that's HIS talent, that's HIS life, that's what HE'S been through. The individual chooses the impact such lyrics have on him.

The responsibility isn't the artists, because they're are PLENTY of artists who are positive. The problem is that's not what society wants to hear, right now it's all about sex, violence and drugs, this is the generation that's before us. That's not hip hop's fault, it's not metal/hardcore rock's fault either. It's just the way it is, times have changed.

As for objectifying women, please...I'm 26 yrs old, and I remember watching videos of bands like Poison, Guns n' Roses, Aerosmith, etc, and they all had girls in bikinis dancing (if you can call it that) and objectifying themselves. I don't like to turn this into a race thing, but why does it become a problem when it's blacks who do it? This has been going on long before rap became popular, yet no one is calling for Steven Tyler's head?

This whole double standard thing is so transparent, luckily i'm smart enough to see right past that and call em' out.

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Old
03-18-2008, 04:53 PM
  #113
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Guys, the bottom line is that its music and music differs from person to person and one cant change that with arguing the validity of a genre.

That and the OP fails miserable

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Old
03-18-2008, 05:03 PM
  #114
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Guys, the bottom line is that its music and music differs from person to person and one cant change that with arguing the validity of a genre.

That and the OP fails miserable
That's cool...and i'm very sorry for going off on a rant.

It's just annoying when people start blaming all of society's ills on rap. It's such an easy cop out and i'm sick of the whole culture of hip hop always getting painted with the same brush because of the actions of 50 cent, like for real, who made him the spokesman for hip hop?

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Old
03-18-2008, 05:07 PM
  #115
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Gainey
+1
I haven't been to the board for like 3 or 4 days, and ***... Wrestling, Freestyle Youtube, and other random stuff...


What's next? New Summer Shorts?

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Old
03-18-2008, 05:22 PM
  #116
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Bob Dylan sucks.

Discuss.

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03-18-2008, 05:24 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
That's cool...and i'm very sorry for going off on a rant.

It's just annoying when people start blaming all of society's ills on rap. It's such an easy cop out and i'm sick of the whole culture of hip hop always getting painted with the same brush because of the actions of 50 cent, like for real, who made him the spokesman for hip hop?
I thought snoop was the spokesman

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03-18-2008, 05:26 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by KostitsyntheBagBaby View Post
Bob Dylan sucks.

Discuss.
Enter McPhee

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Old
03-18-2008, 05:40 PM
  #119
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NDG isn't part of the West-Island...
Hopefully West Island hasn't changed too much over the last 10 years, I was going to go back for a visit.

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03-18-2008, 05:44 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
1) So Manson isn't a good example because he's mainstream? But 50 cent isn't mainstream? So Manson doesn't represent metal/hardcore as a whole, but 50 cent does for hip hop? Am I the only one who notices the double standard? That's not surprising though. Like you said, there's metal that's 'real' and I say, there's hip hop/rap, that's 'real' too and doesn't have the negative message...However, MTV, Muchmusic, BET, etc, they don't choose to play that...Furthermore, society as a whole (the youth today) don't seem to want to hear the positive message

Also, Chammilionaire is nothing like 50 cent...quite the opposite actually. But what does it matter to you if you already have a pre-conceived notion?

Also, I never said 50 cent doesn't influence people, for sure he does, that's the problem. People, mainly young people, don't have the right role models, TV has become the parent for this generation. But it's not 50 cents job to tone down his lyrics, he raps about what he knows, whether I or you agree with it is inconsequential. He's trying to sell records, that's HIS talent, that's HIS life, that's what HE'S been through. The individual chooses the impact such lyrics have on him.

The responsibility isn't the artists, because they're are PLENTY of artists who are positive. The problem is that's not what society wants to hear, right now it's all about sex, violence and drugs, this is the generation that's before us. That's not hip hop's fault, it's not metal/hardcore rock's fault either. It's just the way it is, times have changed.

As for objectifying women, please...I'm 26 yrs old, and I remember watching videos of bands like Poison, Guns n' Roses, Aerosmith, etc, and they all had girls in bikinis dancing (if you can call it that) and objectifying themselves. I don't like to turn this into a race thing, but why does it become a problem when it's blacks who do it? This has been going on long before rap became popular, yet no one is calling for Steven Tyler's head?

This whole double standard thing is so transparent, luckily i'm smart enough to see right past that and call em' out.
maybe you cant read???

i most DEFINITELY qualify 50 cent as mainstream.

and therein lies the problem. because he gets so much exposure (like Manson) he has influence over kids who dont know better. And since people in the limelight have a responsibility, they should be taking it much more seriously. but hey, i guess when you're making money, nothing gets in the way.

i think you're missing the point. This has nothing to do with you. This has everything to do with the younger generation. The generation of "cool". Look, i dont want to go into semantics and psychoanalysis, but the bottom line is, society is not dictated by its market. Market determines itself.

As for objectfying women, i didnt say it was just blacks who did it. I just said it's wrong to do it, period. Sports Illustrated, Maxim, FHM whatever (despite you enjoying it) is objectifying women. Do i think it's ok? Of course not!!! But when your music revolves around it, that's where there's a problem. And whether you like it or not, but stuff like 50 cent and what not, objectify women in a very negative way. Something Steve Taylor never did. Sure, he might of objectified women, but he didnt condone beating them and what not.

The culture industry is to blame for the way things are. And yes, music has something to do with it. Just like television, movies, the internet etc. Maybe you should look into it.

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03-18-2008, 05:46 PM
  #121
Russeltown
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Hopefully West Island hasn't changed too much over the last 10 years, I was going to go back for a visit.


Well, people can speak french there now...

Basically, when discussions are around french language, the rational logic points to the following statement
Koivu

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03-18-2008, 05:47 PM
  #122
The n00b King
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That's cool...and i'm very sorry for going off on a rant.

It's just annoying when people start blaming all of society's ills on rap. It's such an easy cop out and i'm sick of the whole culture of hip hop always getting painted with the same brush because of the actions of 50 cent, like for real, who made him the spokesman for hip hop?
well maybe you should speak out? Hip Hop and rap have the image that they have because of what music you hear the most about. Just like the image metal has towards people who have no clue about it. They think about Manson. Like i said, i wasnt just blaming Rap. Im blaming a whole lot more then that. But since this convo turned into rap, then that's what i brought forward. I can blame just as much trash tv like MTV and whatnot. I dont understand why people arent angrier at the ******** that's going on. People are just too blind about it and let it slide. As long as they get a paycheck, get to buy their big screen, they couldnt be less bothered by the real problems. And that pisses me off.

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03-18-2008, 05:48 PM
  #123
Batarnac
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Bridget Grey letter to Hip Hop


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03-18-2008, 05:49 PM
  #124
Watsatheo
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EDIT: THIS is what I call freestyle.



Last edited by Watsatheo: 03-18-2008 at 05:54 PM.
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03-18-2008, 06:15 PM
  #125
Guy Germaine
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is that Mr. Perfect?

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