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Is he a smart Ales or what?

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Old
04-28-2004, 01:19 PM
  #26
Digger12
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I refuse to get wound up about this. He's 20 years old, he'll get it.

The only worry I have is that this turns into another Arnott situation, but at least this time we:

1. Don't have Ron Low saying things like "I'm not putting pressure on him, I just want him to be Doug Weight's right winger and score 40 goals a year".

2. Don't have Shayne Corson around to be Hemsky's role model.

Here's hoping that Hemsky becomes a huge video game addict, because then at least his evenings and weekends wouldn't consist solely of clubbing and its inherent risks...just say NO to puck bunnies!

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Old
04-28-2004, 01:21 PM
  #27
The Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
I refuse to get wound up about this. He's 20 years old, he'll get it.
Are you talking about LMHF#1?

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Old
04-28-2004, 01:48 PM
  #28
dawgbone
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Hemsky learned a pretty valuable lesson...

The NHL has some smart people in it. What worked the first time might not work again and it is the elite players that can make the adjustment all the time, the good players who do it alot of the time, average players who do it some of the time, and the waiver bouncers and trade bait who can't make the adjustment.

He needs to do a couple of things.

1). Go at full speed. When he goes at full speed he's too quick for most guys. He runs into problems when he tries to stick handle through people when his feet are still.

2). Get stronger. In order to succeed, you have to be able to do power moves. That doesn't mean run over a 6'5 225 lb defenceman. It means that when you are going, you shouldn't be thrown off course every single time. I mean even Theo Fleury could take a bump from a big defender when he was going around to the outside.

Those are the two most pressing concerns from MPOV. The shooting and passing will come with experience, and forcing him into a situation where he only can do one or the other is silly. Why limit him to only being a trigger man? Or why limit him to only being a setup man? He will learn the decision making skills with experience, he will get the experience by earning his time by doing the two things I mentioned.

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Old
04-29-2004, 01:08 AM
  #29
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Why should Horcoff get demoted down to the 4th line and Hemsky have a spot waiting for him in the top 6? I personally feel Horcoff has played his way off of the fourth line with an all around solid year. On the other hand, Hemsky did very little this season to earn a spot on the top two lines. There is no doubt that Hemsky has the greater talent but he has to earn his minutes. Horcoff did play with better linemates for the latter half of the season but Hemsky had his chance in the top 6 and did not produce. I'd like to see a third line of Izzy, Hemsky and Reasoner to start the season.
It's not a spot waiting for him. It's how things should be and what's best for the team. The lineup gives the Oilers the best scoring options as well as 1-4 line strength, with defined line roles and players placed with those who can contribute. Horcoff didn't play his way out of his spot. As many other noted (not just me) he was only there due to injuries. I know this is a rather trite thing to say, but if Marty Reasoner is in the lineup, there's ZERO chance Shawn Horcoff gets anywhere near what he got, he's probably where I'd have him, which is traded due to his inflated value. Hemsky did not get his chance with a steady pair of partners, or even a good goal scorer all year long. He didn't play with those he's strongest with or what makes the team strongest. This is a simple correction of that.

The problem as I've said with Isbister being on that line is that he just can't finish the passes Ales would make to him, and he can't be a playmaker if they asked Ales to change his positioning and mentality to that of a sniper. It's doing what the did all year with completely useless lines like Isbister-Oates-Hemsky and Pisani-Oates-Hemsky. Both of those lines allowed for nearly total isolation of Ales, and Isbister refused to be the power forward he can be, so it didn't work.

Walsh, York isn't a goal scorer. He doesn't have the right shooting technique for it. He never has really. He's an excellent player, and unless we're getting a premier scorer back, I wouldn't deal him and need him at LW on the 2nd line. He's good defensively, and works well to spread the puck and get open, scoring goals but not being a puck-burying type that is knocking in quick passes and the like. That's a different type of player.

Horcoff is the 4th center. Nedved, Reasoner, and Stoll, are all better hockey players and natural centers. Stoll was on a similar pace when he was getting premier ice-time, but that changed with Nedved's presence, and unfortunately the coaching staff didn't see fit to play him on anything more than the checking line after that, negating much of his smarts and imagination. Much of this due to MacTavish's massive paranoia about messing with anything that results even in a pathetic tie for his team. It's not about good Craig.....it's about BEST.

Even a line like Torres-Stoll-Hemsky wouldn't make me too unhappy, although I really don't think Torres has the finish to be the most effective guy there. You need a finesse finisher. We have one, maybe two.

One thing's for sure, YOU DO NOT DEVELOP FIRST LINE WINGERS BY TELLING THEM TO CHANGE THEIR GAME ENTIRELY AND IGNORE THEIR NATURAL ASSETS, THEN BENCH THEM BECAUSE THEY LOOK BAD DOING IT. PATIENCE IS A FREAKING GIFT NOT A CURSE! ONE DAY THAT'S GONNA GET TONS OF GOALS!

I know how much many of you enjoy seeing these excellently talented players fail, because they don't score twice a night and for some reason that makes alot of people think there's no effort, and I can already see it happening here. It's just sick how quickly you can forget the absolutely putrid peformances of certain guys who 'work hard' for a couple nights and are suddenly back in the good books because they're talentless and cheap.

Hate to bring this back almost....but if Comrie's here at the beginning of the year, we're not having this discussion because Hemsky's been protected on the top lines all year, put up 60+ and we're flying in the playoffs with a balanced scoring attack and a hungry young D and goalie. You can't expect the guy to carry the load, but that's what was put on him this year.

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Old
04-29-2004, 01:41 AM
  #30
choppystride
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It always amuses me every time I hear people say that Hemsky must be turned into a sniper. This is akin to hearing some of those TV commentators criticizing a player by mentioning that he has only "1 goal in his last 10 games" while conveniently ignoring all the assists during that span. It's unsurprising that this snubbing of passing/playmaking skills remains an unfortunate bias of hockey-think. However, it still perplexes me to hear it from fans of a team for which Gretzky used to play.

Hemsky's hands were touched by heaven and they are meant to pass. Let's accept that fact b/c that's what made him successful in the past and that's what's gonna make him successful in the future. True, he can do better than thinking "pass" as his first three options. But if he can just think "shot" as his option #3, that's all he needs.

I'm also not against him playing on the 3rd line. The Oilers is a 4 line team where skill is relatively distributed. Even on the 3rd line, Hemsky wouldn't exactly be wasting away with offensively clueless plumbers. It would also free him from the top opposing checkers & dmen. I think that's what he needs to build his confidence again.

I think we just need a little more patience with Hemsky. I find all that recent talk of giving Hemksy + Brewer + 1st + your first born for the #1 pick downright ridiculous. The game has changed a lot in recent years where strength and athleticism have become a bigger factor than it used to be. For a skinny kid like Hemsky, it'll just take him a little longer to catch up. And when he does, I think we'll have a superstar in our hands.

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Old
04-29-2004, 11:16 AM
  #31
Matts
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Claude Julien on his kid Kommisarek being the goat in OT

"But if Mike Komisarek is going to be the player we know he can be, he has to be allowed to play and learn from his mistakes."

Is there a lesson in there?

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Old
04-29-2004, 11:32 AM
  #32
oilswell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
"But if Mike Komisarek is going to be the player we know he can be, he has to be allowed to play and learn from his mistakes."

Is there a lesson in there?
Don't expect young teams to advance?

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Old
04-29-2004, 12:01 PM
  #33
Walsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilswell
Don't expect young teams to advance?
That is exactly right. There is a time and place for these players to develop and season, and for Komisarek it shouldn't be OT in game 3 of the second round of the playoffs (maybe the Calder Cup playoffs but not these playoffs). That was what I was saying to end the year for the Oilers as well. Hemsky does need time to develop and learn, but the Oilers can't afford his gaffs in ta stretch run that almost saw them in the playoffs from nowhere. Patience is a virtue but when it costs you hockey games at this level you have to be a bit more careful.

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Old
04-29-2004, 03:41 PM
  #34
Matts
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Sure it should

Theo's still young and so are Ribero and Ryder. Let Kommisarek play and they can all grow together. Anyone with a clue knows that taking out Kommisarek won't get the Habs past TB or any further in the playoffs. But play the kid now and let him learn and in two years him and your team are that much further ahead.

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Old
04-29-2004, 05:27 PM
  #35
Mizral
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Here's what I'd do with Ales Hemsky:

Training Camp: If he shows he can play on the big club, great. Put him there in exhibition + 10 regular season games. By the end of that time, if he looks okay there, fine. if he doesn't, go to Toronto for about 20 games for 20 minutes a game. Get his confidence back.

If he doesn't show he can play with the big club out of camp, put him on the AHL roster right away.

It's all about confidence with Ales. If he's confident, he'll play well. It's also very important to make him shoot the puck more though. As a winger, you can't be a pure playmaker in this league and be super effective. You have to shoot too. Get Ales to shoot the puck more, but don't go on some crusade that if he passes the puck, you bench him for 50 minutes either.

The AHL is a great confidence booster, and many a player have gone down there and come back up looking refreshed and all-in-all better.

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Old
04-29-2004, 07:00 PM
  #36
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
"But if Mike Komisarek is going to be the player we know he can be, he has to be allowed to play and learn from his mistakes."

Is there a lesson in there?
Kind of like putting Mike Comrie out on the ice for a defensive zone face-off with 10 seconds left in the game against Mike Modano?

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Old
04-29-2004, 09:11 PM
  #37
Matts
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If you're gonna quote me

at least get it right

It was Comrie out for an own zone draw in the last 10 seconds of a PERIOD vs Modano. As per your past posts, you are familiar with periods

What was the point of tempting fate with 10 seconds left in a frame? And against Modano of all people. Here was Kommisarek who wasn't out there for a draw against the other team's big lines. Julien was just rolling the lines and pairs and gave him his shot.

MacT just about threw Comrie to the wolves and that's cool with me but with 10 seconds left and an own zone draw? Big difference between that and just rolling over lines and pairs and a rookie happens to be one of them.

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Old
05-01-2004, 04:48 PM
  #38
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I say hemsky to Montreal for Garon. anyone else like this trade?

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Old
05-01-2004, 05:56 PM
  #39
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler
I say hemsky to Montreal for Garon. anyone else like this trade?
Not even a tiny bit. You are REALLY overpaying for Garon. To a huge degree. If they sent back Kastsitsyn, then MAYBE I could see it. But that is an insane trade.

Hemsky is a 20 year old with talent oozing out of him. No way we should be giving up on him this early. That would be a waste of possibly our best asset.

For Garon think along the lines of MAYBE a 2nd and Winchester. That would be about right. Remember, this isn't Theo we are trading for it is a guy with 30 games under his belt. Yeah he is good but is not proven yet.

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Old
05-01-2004, 11:14 PM
  #40
Matts
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I like Garon

but I wouldn't give up Hemsky for him and I don't know why the Habs would part with him

I think you need three goalies in the system before you trade one of them

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Old
05-02-2004, 09:39 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0
I agree with some points you make, however, its simply a matter of reaching their ceiling or full potential. Hemsky has much more potential, as where Horcoff has reached his ceiling i would say, that being a borderline 2nd line center. Hemsky has the potential to be a top line RW for us. Its just like when Mike Comrie took the reigns as top line center. He had to suceed, or we were long outta the playoffs before march. So what did we do, gave him our best wingers to make him suceed. I think the line of Torres-York-Dvorak already has nice chemistry. Smyth and Nedved will be our top players in their respective positions, giving Hemsky the ball, its his to lose. If he squanders this chance, then yes, revert the lines to something like s7ark's roster, but at least give it a dozen games at the season's start to see if Hemsky can Blow his sophmore jinx outta the water.
Actually I like this idea too. I am still a Hemsky fan and think he will do great things for us.

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