and therein lies the problem. because he gets so much exposure (like Manson) he has influence over kids who dont know better. And since people in the limelight have a responsibility, they should be taking it much more seriously. but hey, i guess when you're making money, nothing gets in the way.
i think you're missing the point. This has nothing to do with you. This has everything to do with the younger generation. The generation of "cool". Look, i dont want to go into semantics and psychoanalysis, but the bottom line is, society is not dictated by its market. Market determines itself.
As for objectfying women, i didnt say it was just blacks who did it. I just said it's wrong to do it, period. Sports Illustrated, Maxim, FHM whatever (despite you enjoying it) is objectifying women. Do i think it's ok? Of course not!!! But when your music revolves around it, that's where there's a problem. And whether you like it or not, but stuff like 50 cent and what not, objectify women in a very negative way. Something Steve Taylor never did. Sure, he might of objectified women, but he didnt condone beating them and what not.
The culture industry is to blame for the way things are. And yes, music has something to do with it. Just like television, movies, the internet etc. Maybe you should look into it.
Fair enough...but saying one's worse then the other for doing varying degrees of the same thing just doens't cut it IMO. If one's bad, the same goes for the other.
It's this double standard that infuriates me (not you, just the double standard)
Ideally, it would be great for a guy like 50 cent, using the power of influence he has. To spread a more positive image, so that the 14 year old kid living in bad conditions doesn't think that his only outlet is selling drugs, rapping or playing basketball. However, 50 cent, a product of that environment himself can only speak about what he knows. Again, while I don't agree with it and neither do you, it is what it is. It sucks but I think it's more representative of underlying issues in some areas of North America, more specifically the U.S.
The thing is with rap, it's real, it's raw, it doesn't hold any punches. It's the antithesis of emo. Their are negative aspects and their are positive aspects, unfortunately, in today's society 'bad' is good. Negative press always gets more attention then positive press. I hope that in the near future, there's more attention to artists like Lupe Fiasco, Common, Little Brother, The Roots, etc. That's hip hop...
ah. well then you, my friend, are a victim of the same ignorance you portray disliking.
1) for some reason, i knew someone would bring up Manson. Manson is not good music. Anybody smart enough knows that. Manson is mainstream. Anything that gets picked up by mainstream gets liquified by the system. What i was saying is i dont remember listening to metal (well you know, the real stuff. Shadows Fall sort of thing) and not hearing the kind of messages artists like 50 cents have.
See my problem lies in the cultural industry that is popular culture. I have a problem with 50 Cents and his clones (Chamillionaire or whatever else).
If YOU think that people who idolize these people arent smart enough, well then you're perfectly right. Because guess what? 12 years olds dont know better. And yes, it's true, it comes down to parenting. Perhaps you were lucky enough to have gotten the proper kind. Not everyone's that lucky, and as time goes by, kids are (and to quote The Offspring) "kids who raise themselves". And that's a huge problem.
To say that rap like 50 cent doesnt have an impact on people is just plain stupid, because it does. Hugely too.
And whether you like it or not, artists in today's world play an important role in our youth culture. To deny this is just plain ignorance on your part. So yes, these artists have an important responsibility that some, obviously, do not realize. Do you think guys like 50 cent dont know that they are influencial?
You might be smarter then the guy next to you, but what tells you that he is?
Im not blaming rap/hip-hop/music in specific. We have a huge problem today and it doesnt help that these different genres perpetuate the negative message.
And objectifying women has no place in society. It was not always this way and doesnt have to be either. It's wrong that people stand for it or say ******** like "it's always been this way, so you're not gonna change it" To people who think like that, im sending you a big **** you.
Just curious, who are you to tell others what's real or not, or whats good or not ?
was about to buy a few albums, so you migt be of help...
Fair enough...but saying one's worse then the other for doing varying degrees of the same thing just doens't cut it IMO. If one's bad, the same goes for the other.
It's this double standard that infuriates me (not you, just the double standard)
Ideally, it would be great for a guy like 50 cent, using the power of influence he has. To spread a more positive image, so that the 14 year old kid living in bad conditions doesn't think that his only outlet is selling drugs, rapping or playing basketball. However, 50 cent, a product of that environment himself can only speak about what he knows. Again, while I don't agree with it and neither do you, it is what it is. It sucks but I think it's more representative of underlying issues in some areas of North America, more specifically the U.S.
The thing is with rap, it's real, it's raw, it doesn't hold any punches. It's the antithesis of emo. Their are negative aspects and their are positive aspects, unfortunately, in today's society 'bad' is good. Negative press always gets more attention then positive press. I hope that in the near future, there's more attention to artists like Lupe Fiasco, Common, Little Brother, The Roots, etc. That's hip hop...
50 cent is more pop than anything else.
Beastie Boys ftw
I guess im just concerned at what kind of future we have to look forward to when we have kids that run around shooting people because they think they're bad ***** and it's cool. I just wish guys like 50 cent would get less media attention so they would go away and get a real job instead.
If you can understand that, then im sure you can find what good music is.
Manson is a post-producer. He's very good at what he does. But good music, he most definitely does not do.
you can spit whatever theory you feel like and act like you know something, but knowing how many albums the guy sells (I don't listen to him) some people seems to think his "melodies" are O.K...
so, again, who are YOU to say that #1, 2 or 3 from Manson is no good ? you have some super-powered good music detector in your backpocket or what ?
you can spit whatever theory you feel like and act like you know something, but knowing how many albums the guy sells (I don't listen to him) some people seems to think his "melodies" are O.K...
so, again, who are YOU to say that #1, 2 or 3 from Manson is no good ? you have some super-powered good music detector in your backpocket or what ?
errr not really.
it's called music theory.
and that's just how it works.
you feel targeted because you like Manson or something?
Music is just like mathematics, i cant be judged, calculated, manipulated etc.
Did you ever hear of Dodecaphonics?
Music is a cohesion of those elements. (the ones i mentioned in my previous post)
Why do you think music, like say, Classical is timeless and music like say, Britney Spears' is not? Do you remember Gilette? Or how about...Kicking Harold? Probably not. Because it was a product of its time and was not good music. Therefore it died when people moved on.
Anyways im not someone who can tell you what to listen to or not, but i can argue what music is considered good and what is not in the circles of people who know what music is.
No point in further arguing it as it's not gonna go anywhere.
Oh hell, how about you just put me on your ignore list like all the cool kids here do?
I'm not a big rap fan, but I like poetry. Like the ballad, "If they can't take a joke" by local Montreal duo Bowser and Blue, off their "Is It In Yet?" album from the early 1980's. An extract:
(Verse 3)
There are a lot of helpful sayings
in this world to see you through.
Like, So what, Who cares,
Take a bite of this, Drop dead,
Big deal, and Screw you.
But all these helpful sayings
are just too hard to recall.
So there's just one thing to remember,
and I think it covers it all:
(Chorus)
****'em,
if they can't take a joke.
****'em,
if they can't take a joke.
If they don't see the wit,
then I don't give a ****,
so ****'em, ****'em, ****'em,
if they can't take a joke.
Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-19-2008 at 02:16 AM.
i love old hiphop and rap (tribe called quest, de la soul, wu tang clan etc) but that was pure garbage. I guess I should have figured after the opening of guns on a flag.
i love old hiphop and rap (tribe called quest, de la soul, wu tang clan etc) but that was pure garbage. I guess I should have figured after the opening of guns on a flag.
LMAo I totally forgot the whole guns on the flag thing... oh soooooo original!!!!!!!!!
exactly what I said in the 1ST sentence you quoted, a theory. Thanks for not reading my post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony
you feel targeted because you like Manson or something?
Exactly, that's why there's the (I don't listen to him) in the 1ST par. Thanks for not reading... again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony
Music is just like mathematics, i cant be judged, calculated, manipulated etc.
Can't be judged ? well, how can YOU tell what's good or not then ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony
Music is a cohesion of those elements. (the ones i mentioned in my previous post)
Why do you think music, like say, Classical is timeless and music like say, Britney Spears' is not? Do you remember Gilette? Or how about...Kicking Harold? Probably not. Because it was a product of its time and was not good music. Therefore it died when people moved on.
In your theory there's 3 elements, so if in reality music is judged by theses elements alone, why then do you bring another element (time) in your argument ?
well, unless there's more to music than just a theory of course...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony
Anyways im not someone who can tell you what to listen to or not, but i can argue what music is considered good and what is not in the circles of people who know what music is.
lemme guess, you're a full member of that circle, you're part of that elite that know more, enough to judge what can't be judged right ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony
No point in further arguing it as it's not gonna go anywhere.
Well, that would require you read the posts you quote from start to finish...
And hum, well, no son, I will not put you on ignore, afterall it's not going anywhere so... chances are you will not reply to this!
Even SHE doesn't know that she's writting a letter to RAP and NOT HIP HOP!!
IT IS SO ****ING ANNOYING
One Last Try
Hip Hop has:
A Tribe Called Quest
De La Soul
Common
Mos Def
The Roots
Nujabes
Rap is
Anyone with Young/Lil in their name (Young Jeezy, Lil Wayne etc...)
50 Cent
Lil John
Young Buck
Mims
Souljah Boy
etc...
When ur complaining about that stupid ignorant and crap ****, ITS RAP!!
ty and good night
Truth is, your are misguided. The factual limits between rap and hiphop are long gone.(In terms of musical theory) Everything is your hear on radio is a part of hiphop, you may like some artists in that style more than others, like I prefer the sounds of Deadmau5 over the commercialism of Robbie Rivera in Electro House.
it's all rap dude...rap is part of hip hop, which is a culture that spawned sub cultures ( breaking, graffting, tagging, spinning).
When you grab a mic and put words to a beat, you're rapping.
There's just good rap and **** rap.
but yeah, I hate when people assume that because you like hip hop, you must like 50 cent or Flo rida or some other garbage artist.
and lil wayne is sick btw, I'm not a fan of his but cannot deny that he's lyrically gifted.
I must beg to differ, It's not all rap. Hip-Hop has a message... Rap music doesn't. Yes they both perform the artform of "Rapping" but atleast Hip-Hop artist try at times to "Drop Knowledge", something Rap Artist never venture into
Just because a Rock artist sings and plays the guitar doesn't mean he makes the same music as the Country Singer who also sings and play the guitar. I mean they both sing and play the guitar right? And you know why? Because they sound different. And I'm sure you've noticed too... a rap artist and a hip hop artist... sound different (because of what it is they are saying...not so much that they are both rapping)
p.s. I must also disagree that Lil Wayne is good...he Isn't I've got 15 rappers i can easily put ahead of him... off the top of my head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR
Truth is, your are misguided. The factual limits between rap and hiphop are long gone.(In terms of musical theory) Everything is your hear on radio is a part of hiphop, you may like some artists in that style more than others, like I prefer the sounds of Deadmau5 over the commercialism of Robbie Rivera in Electro House.
A Classic for good fun :
What you don't seem to understand is that part of the musical art form of Hip Hop and Rap is the Rhymes. No other musical artform focuses on the artists words and flow as an instrument. Those two do it. That's why u can say they sound different, They ARE different. They carry a different message.
P.S. Deadmau5 is getting commercial and its not even his fault... ppl are copying his style left and right
Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-19-2008 at 06:05 PM.
exactly what I said in the 1ST sentence you quoted, a theory. Thanks for not reading my post!
Just because it's called theory does not mean that it's not full of facts. Maybe you've never been to University?
[QUOTE]
Exactly, that's why there's the (I don't listen to him) in the 1ST par. Thanks for not reading... again!
Quote:
sure
Quote:
Can't be judged ? well, how can YOU tell what's good or not then ?
Quote:
that was a typo. it was supposed to read: "It can be"
Quote:
In your theory there's 3 elements, so if in reality music is judged by theses elements alone, why then do you bring another element (time) in your argument ?
well, unless there's more to music than just a theory of course...
nice try. I didnt bring time in the elements. timeless as in, classical is music that will always be listened to and never forgotten because of the pinnacled elements.
lemme guess, you're a full member of that circle, you're part of that elite that know more, enough to judge what can't be judged right ?
pointless to argue this is based on a typo.
Well, that would require you read the posts you quote from start to finish...
And hum, well, no son, I will not put you on ignore, afterall it's not going anywhere so... chances are you will not reply to this!
actually i've made some typos which led to my argument being flawed and you misunderstood me on some parts. And you were wrong, i quoted you
What you don't seem to understand is that part of the musical art form of Hip Hop and Rap is the Rhymes. No other musical artform focuses on the artists words and flow as an instrument. Those two do it. That's why u can say they sound different, They ARE different. They carry a different message.
P.S. Deadmau5 is getting commercial and its not even his fault... ppl are copying his style left and right
1) I'm a DJ-Producer for the last 10 years, music theory is pretty much what I did in my spare time for all those years.
2) Deadmau5= Like everything that is good, its copied. It'll take 5 copies of Deadmau for every copy of Benni Benassi.
3)The message as nothing to do with the musical boundaries of the style. I think your confusing musical theories with musical influences. Theres rap into Hiphop, theres was rap in Eurodance, in Rock as well.
(weak example, it wasnt done a lot, hardcore rap, rap-rock etc, at best underground styles.)
There was some "pure rap" in the 80s, to say that 50 cents is rap...hmm, no. It's clearly Hiphop.
From your list earlier, I think your trying to say that the "gangsters" are not part of hiphop, your confusing influences and styles.
