HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Vancouver scout: Latendresse ahead of Bertuzzi at 20

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2008, 12:02 PM
  #76
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
What he lacks is, quickness. The ability to stop and start on a dime. He has no first step quickness and limited acceleration.
While he does have to have more speed, you're right. First step is a major issue that will need work. But also his endurance. On a 50 second shift, you can clearly see the difference between his first 25 seconds and the last 25 seconds of his shift.

Good news is that he acknowledge it by trying to be learner, and he'll work on his skating. First thing is to acknowledge it, then he'll have to work on it. We'll see how serious he is and I believe he will. Still, again, toughest challenge is ahead. We will be expected to be better next year and we will have better players in our hands with others coming our way.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:04 PM
  #77
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
Two excellent posts, there is faith to had for good debate after all!

bipolar-I think the Andreychuk comparison is excellent the more I think about it...meaning we can look forward to a long career of garbage goals.

But seriously, the idea of a big man who isn't a great skater, isn't overly physical, but has an excellent scoring touch and will go to the net and get his nose dirty to score seems to fit Lats quite well. That's kind of what I was trying to get at. The idea that he probably won't be a Bertuzzi or a Neely, but more of an Andreychuk type player.

Whitesnake- Excellent post and I can't add much more. I think the idea about changing our expectations is exactly what I was trying to say, only you worded it better. And that's kind of what I was getting at with Latendresse "discovering himself." Sounds incredibly lame, I know, but he has to discover what kind of player he wants to be. This offseason will be hardest with expectations higher, and hopefully he'll look at himself and find out how he can achieve his potential in this league.



I'm glad more people are discovering it, but the fact that there are professional scouts comparing him to Bertuzzi certainly shows that a lot of people don't get it. And that's what I was trying to say with the post about his play "changing" since training camp. In training camp 2 years ago, I thought I saw a true powerforward developing. In the NHL, I'm seeing a big man who can score and sometimes play physical.

Daze is kind in the ultra-soft mode though, so I wouldn't go that far with him, he does have some grit and can throw his weight around on the forecheck. Like I said, I really like the Andreychuk/LeClair comparison. It may not be what people wanted (hey I'm one of them, I'll take Neely over Andreychuk 10 times outta 10) but if he can learn, as you said, to just establish position, drive the net and get those garbage goals, coupled with his already soft hands, he should have a successful career as a big "goalscorer" rather than a "powerforward."
Oh no doubt...I was just saying his style/temperment is closer to Dazé than it is Bertuzzi/Neely/Shanny

The issue I have with people is, I don't know why there's that much contention over latendresse???

It's not likehe's our #1 LW and is a season long scoring slump? It's not like he's this HUGE defensivel liability?

What's the problem with the way Latendresse is playing?

I understand why people complaing about Smolinski, he's a veteran that was brought in to mainly provide stability/reliability, and in alot of cases he's been the exact opposite.

So again, what's the problem with the way Latendresse is playing? (I don't want to hear the skating thing either).

The problem with Latendresse, and it will probably always be this, is the expectations of him because of where he's from. He's probably never going to be able to live up to those, but I still think he'll be a fine player in the NHL

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:07 PM
  #78
Lone Rogue
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The problem with Latendresse, and it will probably always be this, is the expectations of him because of where he's from. He's probably never going to be able to live up to those, but I still think he'll be a fine player in the NHL
Seeing how people do nothing but constantly compare Price and Halak and before Price to Huet, I'm fearing the moment Pacioretty steps onto the Habs training Camp, everyone will be doing Pacioretty/Latendresse comparisons. Hell, they already do. It's going to get irritating. Instead of just being happy having the two, everyone will want Lats replaced.

Lone Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:08 PM
  #79
Coco Fever
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside Cowboy View Post
He also thinks the game slowly, which makes it hard for him to complete bodychecks and to position himself at the good spot at the good time.
That's what I think too. Some "slow" players (Chipchura for example) never look out of place because they anticipate and react quickly to the transition game.

The other thing that bugs me a bit about Latendresse's play is how sometimes he'll make a blind pass from the corner to the front of the net in the offensive zone instead of using his body and stickhandling skills to shield the puck, continue the cycling or simply drive the net.

I'd like to see him more aggressive when it's time to go from the corner or the hash mark to the net. A bit like all those clips we see from the Rocket (not trying to compare him to the Rocket...please relax...) - all the Rocket was seeing was the net. The rest (opponents, goalies...) was not important...

Coco Fever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:13 PM
  #80
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Fever View Post
That's what I think too. Some "slow" players (Chipchura for example) never look out of place because they anticipate and react quickly to the transition game.

The other thing that bugs me a bit about Latendresse's play is how sometimes he'll make a blind pass from the corner to the front of the net in the offensive zone instead of using his body and stickhandling skills to shield the puck, continue the cycling or simply drive the net.

I'd like to see him more aggressive when it's time to go from the corner or the hash mark to the net. A bit like all those clips we see from the Rocket (not trying to compare him to the Rocket...please relax...) - all the Rocket was seeing was the net. The rest (opponents, goalies...) was not important...
At the same time, he has a nice knack for making a quick accurate pass from the boards when coming out of the zone. I think part of the learning curve is to get a bit arrogant along the boards. Take your time and bull around behind the net, make them commit more than 1 guy. Actually this is pretty well what you said.

As Emily Littella used to say "Never Mind'.

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:17 PM
  #81
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Maxpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,428
vCash: 500
one of the best articles i've ever read! After Latendresse takes his powerskating lessons and starts playing on the pp he'l becomea premier powerforward, i have no doubt in my mind, he practiced his postion game playing with unreliable players like Smolinski and Kostopoulos, it was much harder to hit since would never even get behind the opposition's net, he tends to hit ALOT more when he plays with Saku, it's just a thing of confidence, the ame can be said for him about crashing the net, al he needs to do is accelerate faster and make sharper turns, but guess what, just like his weight problems, it's easily correctable with a little work! I just hope that the coach won'ty play him with energy players anymore, he needs to be on a scoring line

Maxpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:20 PM
  #82
Coco Fever
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
At the same time, he has a nice knack for making a quick accurate pass from the boards when coming out of the zone. I think part of the learning curve is to get a bit arrogant along the boards. Take your time and bull around behind the net, make them commit more than 1 guy. Actually this is pretty well what you said.

As Emily Littella used to say "Never Mind'.
Ah! Ah! You're a wise man; you said in 2 lines what took me 15...

Also, I feel he wants to be "too nice" to his linemates...doesn't want to be viewed as a puck hog so he tends to pass it too quickly in the offensive zone. We usually see this in minor hockey when a "bully" is intimidating other team mates and they are all trying to give him the puck to be his friend!!!

So I think the word "arrogant" was well chosen...good job mcphee!

Coco Fever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:22 PM
  #83
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Fever View Post
That's what I think too. Some "slow" players (Chipchura for example) never look out of place because they anticipate and react quickly to the transition game.

The other thing that bugs me a bit about Latendresse's play is how sometimes he'll make a blind pass from the corner to the front of the net in the offensive zone instead of using his body and stickhandling skills to shield the puck, continue the cycling or simply drive the net.
I'd like to see him more aggressive when it's time to go from the corner or the hash mark to the net. A bit like all those clips we see from the Rocket (not trying to compare him to the Rocket...please relax...) - all the Rocket was seeing was the net. The rest (opponents, goalies...) was not important...
It's part of being a young player...he'll learn all of that when he gets more confidence

We can't expect these guys to be complete players right off the bat...look at Brisebois? It's trial/error...

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:44 PM
  #84
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,441
vCash: 500



Man, I wish the street I lived on as a child was as slick as this street seems to be...

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:48 PM
  #85
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post



Man, I wish the street I lived on as a child was as slick as this street seems to be...
Clearly they are not anywhere near the general vacinity of Quebec.

__________________
Yours in Christ,

waffledave
waffledave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:48 PM
  #86
Russeltown
Registered User
 
Russeltown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post



Man, I wish the street I lived on as a child was as slick as this street seems to be...

Russeltown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 12:56 PM
  #87
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Fever View Post
Ah! Ah! You're a wise man; you said in 2 lines what took me 15...

Also, I feel he wants to be "too nice" to his linemates...doesn't want to be viewed as a puck hog so he tends to pass it too quickly in the offensive zone. We usually see this in minor hockey when a "bully" is intimidating other team mates and they are all trying to give him the puck to be his friend!!!

So I think the word "arrogant" was well chosen...good job mcphee!
Don't know if you saw an exchange between Ryder and Latendresse when one of them was mic'ed. Ryder made a joke about which one of them had the 'slowest' reputation. I get the idea that Lats is a really good guy. While this may make him one of the guys that we'd like to have a beer with, it probably will disapoint fans who want to see Cam Neely's re-incarnation. You can't ask a guy to develop a mean streak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
one of the best articles i've ever read! After Latendresse takes his powerskating lessons and starts playing on the pp he'l becomea premier powerforward, i have no doubt in my mind, he practiced his postion game playing with unreliable players like Smolinski and Kostopoulos, it was much harder to hit since would never even get behind the opposition's net, he tends to hit ALOT more when he plays with Saku, it's just a thing of confidence, the ame can be said for him about crashing the net, al he needs to do is accelerate faster and make sharper turns, but guess what, just like his weight problems, it's easily correctable with a little work! I just hope that the coach won'ty play him with energy players anymore, he needs to be on a scoring line
I'm not picking on you because you're saying something that I see alot. It's not a matter of taking a course then snap, we have a new player. If it was that simple, half the league would take the magical power skating course.

He can and should improve. He needs to get on the puck sooner, or at least get on the D sooner. It's up to him though. We'll see if he has it in him to improve his skating, some do , some don't.

As for who he plays with, it's up to the coach to use the players in situations to make the team win, not make particular players look better. Lats has rec'd considerably more latitude [unintentional play on words] than most players. If he isn't getting top 6 minutes, he's got trhe mirror to look into,not the coach.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-20-2008 at 01:34 PM.
mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 01:12 PM
  #88
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Clearly they are not anywhere near the general vacinity of Quebec.
They are actually playing in street hockey heaven... where all the roads are paved like gymnasiums and the houses are made out of movie sets!

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 01:22 PM
  #89
lou4gehrig
Registered User
 
lou4gehrig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I agree, Latendresse deserved to make the team out of camp. But he definately did not deserve to stay there after his first dozen or so games. Unfortunately, they couldn't send him to the AHL and juniors was not really an option either.

But this season? What has Latendresse done to deserve staying up this year? What has he shown ahead of, say, Chipchura or Lapierre, who both had time down in the minors?

You know, just because he had a good rookie year, it doesn't mean he can't benefit from time in the minors. It isn't an insult to him to say he could use some seasoning in Hamilton. Do you really think he's benefitting from <10 minutes a night in a pseudo checking role and almost no time in the third period? When he could be playing 20-23 minutes a night in a scoring role, which ideally is what we want from him?

And don't say he's here to work on his overall game...That's what Andrei Kostitsyn was in the minors for all those years.
The AHL is pointless for power players. Prime example Jason Ward who led the AHL in scoring, yet it never translated to the NHL.

On the other hand, Kostitsyn is a speed / skill player. Things like teamwork, vision, playmaking, defensive responsibilities can be learned in the AHL.

Lats projects to be a power forward who is either going to stand in front of the net or pretty close to the net and take punishment his entire career. It's going to do him no good to lean on younger, smaller players in the AHL when he needs to learn to deal with the monsters in the NHL.

lou4gehrig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 01:33 PM
  #90
lou4gehrig
Registered User
 
lou4gehrig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,579
vCash: 500
Here is a list of some notable power fowards and the number of AHL games they played.

Doan 39
Andrechuk 0
Bertuzzi 0
Leclair 8
Iginla 0
Shanahan 0
Pyatt 27
Morrow 0
Nash 0
Ryan Malone 3 (even though he was a 4th rounder)
Kevin Stevens 0 (even though he was a 6th rounder)
Tocchet 0 (even though he was a 6th rounder)

On the other hand, even a player like Brett Hull played 67 games in the AHL and Kostitsyn played 170 games there.

There is a strong precedence that players who are strong enough to play in the NHL like Lats, don't play in the minors.

lou4gehrig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 01:41 PM
  #91
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
The AHL is pointless for power players. Prime example Jason Ward who led the AHL in scoring, yet it never translated to the NHL.

On the other hand, Kostitsyn is a speed / skill player. Things like teamwork, vision, playmaking, defensive responsibilities can be learned in the AHL.

Lats projects to be a power forward who is either going to stand in front of the net or pretty close to the net and take punishment his entire career. It's going to do him no good to lean on younger, smaller players in the AHL when he needs to learn to deal with the monsters in the NHL.
Interesting point, Lou. I don't know whether I agree, but you can add JF Jaques from the Oilers to the Jason Ward category.

As for the list in the next post - I wouldn't call Morrow a power forward, at least not a PF in the Lats/Bert/LeClair mold. Still, those examples make for a compelling argument.

Roulin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 02:11 PM
  #92
Adam91
Registered User
 
Adam91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: White Rock, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,677
vCash: 500
Untill Latendresse learns how to skate I can't take this statement seriously

Adam91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 02:51 PM
  #93
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
This sounds like a ****ing FoxNews bulletin with the same talking points being regurgitated every 15 mins. You didn't even address any of the points I tried to bring up rationally for discussion, you just went off on the same "16 goals" nonsensical tangent everyone goes on.

Do you know what powerforward is? Watch no.17 on the Bruins tonight and you'll see the mentality a player needs to be a true powerforward. In fact right now, Lucic is much closer to being a 20G 20A intimidating presence than Lats is. Lucic has 3 fewer points in 1 fewer game and *gasp* he has to play with 3 and 4 liners for a lot of the year and he only plays 11:30 per game as opposed to Lats' 12:16. But I guess all those pretty goals make Lats the real powerforward.

I'm sick of this nonsense and I'm done talking Lats with people who don't want to debate the issue rationally. I think Lats can be excellent forward in this league, and have said as much on many occasions. Right now though, he's not playing like a guy who is going to intimidate and physically dominate, that's it.
I'm not sure how it gets any more real than scoring 16 goals and being 3rd on the team for hits. What you want is him to LOOK better, but in reality he gets it done. He scores goals and he hits. Not only that but he's not a liability defensively. Could he use time in the AHL ? Yes, so could Price, Higgins still and anybody who's not perfect all around.

He's more than good enough to play in the NHL. The reality is that he scores goals and hits. Irrational thinking would have it to play like somebody he's not. That is Milan Lucic. Guillaume Lantendresse is not Milan Lucic and will never be that guy. Guillaume has his own strengths and weaknesses. Reality of his play has it that he puts up 16 goals and gets some number of hits that I can't find on nhl.com but anyhow. He is what he does on the ice and he'll improve over time.

does any player who's 6'6 255 have to be a big bruiser and do this and that in order to succeed. No, all he has to do is apply elements of the game that helps his team to win. Most notably scoring goals and not being a defensive liability. I couldn't care less if he didn't touch anybody as long as he scored goals. Goals will win you games. Looking good and skating fast and doing this and that wont' do it all alone.

btw, explain to me what it is rational thinking in hockey. I could do the stats and show you Latendresse's variance or standard deviation in hits, shots, goals and whatnot compared to the rest of the players, that for me would be rational but it's not what you do so spare me with your rational thinking here, it's a god damn Canadiens hockey board, not a discussion on neural networks nor the rationality of statistics in Quantum Mechanics.


Last edited by Mathletic: 03-20-2008 at 03:01 PM.
Mathletic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 03:26 PM
  #94
LeMAD
Registered User
 
LeMAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,342
vCash: 500
I'm really excited about Latendresse's future. Same with SK and of course Price. I'm not a big hockey "connaisseur", but I get the feeling those three have really high upsides.

As the guy said, Latendresse's overall game is so much better than last year.

LeMAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 03:36 PM
  #95
DrMailloux
 
DrMailloux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,127
vCash: 500
16 goals playing on a 4th line, i wouldn't be surprised if he finish the season with more goals than Koivu !

DrMailloux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 03:40 PM
  #96
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Maxpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post



I'm not picking on you because you're saying something that I see alot. It's not a matter of taking a course then snap, we have a new player. If it was that simple, half the league would take the magical power skating course.

He can and should improve. He needs to get on the puck sooner, or at least get on the D sooner. It's up to him though. We'll see if he has it in him to improve his skating, some do , some don't.

As for who he plays with, it's up to the coach to use the players in situations to make the team win, not make particular players look better. Lats has rec'd considerably more latitude [unintentional play on words] than most players. If he isn't getting top 6 minutes, he's got trhe mirror to look into,not the coach.
oh but you see, it is that easy. Even i only took 10 powerskating lessons and became 20x the skater i was before, it's pretty obvious that Latendresse doesn't bend his knees enough and doesn't skate sharp enough during lateral movements, it changed Ribeiro and he was already a much better skater then Lats was, he also takes too big steps when he accelerates, BIG reason why he's slower then most, all that amongts other i don't know since i'm no expert, but now that he's taken off all the weight he can do anything that any other NHL player can, and when that happens his vision, his roughness and his talent will take a major boost, one day Latendresse is seriously going to explode.

Maxpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 03:41 PM
  #97
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Maxpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
I'm really excited about Latendresse's future. Same with SK and of course Price. I'm not a big hockey "connaisseur", but I get the feeling those three have really high upsides.

As the guy said, Latendresse's overall game is so much better than last year.
as i said, he vastly improved in positioning playing with 2 unreliable players in Smolinski and Kostopoulos, but now he has to move on to better things

Maxpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 03:51 PM
  #98
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
I really like Gui with Grabovski and Sergei. What people seem to forget is that Lats is an offensive minded player and should play with similar minded player. He's a good fit with those two as he brings size and is able to be the third man in and thus will get some good oportunities. i also like the chemistry he and Sergei shared.

hogtownhabsfan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 03:57 PM
  #99
Odinsky*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 528
vCash: 500
He should take some power skating lessons and take his visor off

Odinsky* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2008, 04:03 PM
  #100
ed ible*
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 447
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude wow View Post
He should take some power skating lessons and take his visor off
yeah when is the last time a powerforward wore a visor........

ed ible* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.