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Thn - Bob Gainey #4 Gm

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Old
03-21-2008, 12:19 AM
  #1
golteez
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Thn - Bob Gainey #4 Gm

Getting some respect.

To summarize the article in the new edition of the Hockey News they talk about how he's faced scrutiny amongst some Habs fans (I.E. Huet deal). Talks about him being a patient man who surrounds himself with great people. He is one of seven current GM's to have Stanley Cup Ring.

1) Brian "Brain" (They call him) Burke --> Best GM in the game, wins trades (Pronger) , waivers (Kunitz), and drafting.
2) Lou Lamoriello --> I disagree i think Brodeur should replace him if they want to put up someone from the New Jersey organization.
3) Ken Holland --> One of the best talent evaluators (Zettenberg, and Datsyuk...) and the past era's he's been GM of (Steve Yzerman...).
4) Bob Gainey --> Admits when he makes a mistakes and corrects himslef, and sticks with the plan. And well that plan was one heck of a plan.
5) Darryl Sutter --> Hasn't done much recently but has a great core with Phanuef, Iginla, and Kipper.

So congratz to Bob and for the way he's kept with the plan.

He didn't draft all them but here's the prospects, and current player's he's either drafted or helped mature in Hamilton, or juniour.

Current club

1) Latendresse
2) Plekanec
3) Higgins
4) Price
5) Halak --> 8th Round!
6) Lapierre
7) O' Byrne
8) A. Kostitsyn
9) S. Kostitsyn --> 7th Round!
10) Grabs
11) Komisarek (Wasn't sure to include him or not)

Minors (Most drafted by Bob)

1) Chips
2) Carle
3) Valentenko
4) Emelin
5) Subban
6) Fischer
7) Mcdonaugh --> Going to be AMAZING - all around game
8) D'Agonstini
9) Pacioretti
10) Maxwell
11) White

Probaly missing some but those are the prospects, and young current players Gainey has drafted or overseen.

Some of the trades

1) Signs Theo to awful contract fixes it with trade for Aebischer
2) Ditto with Samsonov
3) Grabbed Huet, and Bonk
4) Rivet for Gorges and Pacioretty --> WOW
5) Balej for Kovalev!

Prb missing some aswell but he's won his fair share of trades
The free agency has been only medicore but he's tried to reel in talent but got stuck with Samsonov, and Smolinski, and Brisebois are only one year deals to plug in holes when needed.


Gainey is well deserving of the rank for #4 GM and will keep movin' on up. The future is ours


Last edited by golteez: 03-21-2008 at 12:28 AM.
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03-21-2008, 12:23 AM
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Guy Caballero
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Gainey is clearly one of the best. Many a Leaf fan in Toronto has confessed to me that they wished they had him. Too bad so many Hab fans don't appreciate what they've got.

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03-21-2008, 12:26 AM
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Burke drafted Getzlaf?

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03-21-2008, 12:27 AM
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golteez
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Burke drafted Getzlaf?
No, now that i think of it your right ill check up on that
Edit: Yup, sorry guys it wasn't Burke who drafted him it was the other Brian lol


Last edited by golteez: 03-21-2008 at 12:36 AM.
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03-21-2008, 12:29 AM
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Brian Murray drafted Getzlaf.

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03-21-2008, 12:32 AM
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Bob Gainey is great. That's exactly what I love about Gainey; sure he makes mistakes like every GM, but he always manages to right them. Not once has he ever made this team worse off, ever...and that's an accomplishment in of itself.

The patience he exhibits towards the young ones is remarkable. Not to mention that he's hired one of the best amateur scouting staffs in the league, which he definitely deserves credit for.

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03-21-2008, 12:42 AM
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Guy Caballero
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The patience he exhibits towards the young ones is remarkable. Not to mention that he's hired one of the best amateur scouting staffs in the league, which he definitely deserves credit for.
Patience is the key word here. Gainey is a cool customer who's secure in his job. He was given the leeway to fail in the short term in order to reap long-term gains. Contrast with JFJ, who was rushed into desperation moves to keep the team afloat. I can't even put all the blame on JFJ. I think he was in a toxic environment, almost set up to fail. The elbow room Gillette and Boivin have given Gainey is a big reason for the Habs' success. (Personally, I don't think Boivin's much more than a PR guy. Gainey is totally in charge of hockey operations. He's got as much autonomy as Burke has or Bowman had when it comes to running the Habs, and that's what any successful franchise needs.)

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03-21-2008, 12:56 AM
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Gainey will always get bashed by people no matter what he does. Even if the Canadiens win the Cup, he'll still get bashed. I still have friends talking to me about the Ribeiro trade (which I reply to them that with Ribeiro, I don't think we would have the great player that Thomas Plekanec is right now. I really like Ribeiro and was pretty disappointed when he got traded but hey life goes on and let's work with what we have right now. Sure the return for Ribeiro wasn't good (Niiniimaa) but sometimes, people have to realize that you have to trade someone away or letting them go away to make more space for your own players (like trading Rivet and letting Souray walk as an UFA to give more ice time to Komisarek and to make Markov as the leader on defense, like trading Ribeiro to give Plekanec the second line or by trading Huet to give the goal to Price and Halak). You can say whatever you want about Gainey but he possesses 2 of most important qualities that any managers need to have which are calmness and patience... Montreal is great to players and managers when the team is winning but when the team is not doing so good, most of the people just want to trade everybody in order to shake things up (kind of like at the stock market when people want to sell real bad when things goes bad). Some of my friends say that he wasn't responsible for turning the Canadiens over, that most of the current team was drafted by Andre Savard and then Trevor Timmins. Well, guess what, you can draft all the players you want but you need to give them a chance to play in order to take advantage of the draft. How many years has it been since this year that more than one young player made the team. The former Habs coaches (Vigneault, Therrien and Julien) never really played any young players because they needed to win right away and always favored veterans over young guys. Some teams are not patient with their picks and trade them away in order to win right away. I'm pretty sure you can find a lot of examples here...

The GM needs to be able to withstand the pressure and act rationally throughout any storm. Try to imagine if either Carbonneau or Gainey actually listen to fans who are always complaining about their team... I guess the Habs wouldn't be in the same situation right now. You can say whatever you want about them, but they have the experience of winning in Stanley Cups in the NHL. They know what they need in order to win. Me, personally, I'm really glad that Pierre Boivin hired Gainey and Carbonneau and think we're in good hands with these two and the entire scouting staff...

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03-21-2008, 01:54 AM
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I don't want to turn this into a whole 'thing' but Burke is the flavour of the year. To try to conceive of Burke as being a better GM than Lamoriello or Holland is complete lunacy. Where is Vancouver's offence if Burke is so outstanding at drafting? Why did Burke give a lot of credit to Murray for building the Ducks? I'm not saying he's not a good GM but there's good and then there's Detroit/New Jersey.

Holland and Lamoriello have lost some of the best players in the history of the game due to retirement and free agency, haven't drafted in the top 15(to my knowledge) and continue to keep their teams at the top of the league consistently.

Gainey deserves extra marks for dealing with the most scrutiny out of any GM and not flinching once. Actually, not only does he stick to the gameplan, he flies in the face of conventional wisdom and makes a 20 year old kid his starter while his team is battling for 1st in the most hockey-crazed city! The man has coconuts in his trousers.

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03-21-2008, 10:06 AM
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One year sure makes a difference. I find this list very fair and accurate. Burke's on top right now because he's the defending cup champion and that's good enough for me. Holland, Lamoriello and Sutter have brought incredible stability to their franchises. Gainey's the newbie in this group, but he's put his organization in such great shape in every respect that I think he's a no brainer to be considered a peer with other proven winners. Under Gainey's leadership the habs are winning on the ice with young home grown talent, have as stockpile of prospects and pretty much all our picks (missing some mid rounders this year, have an extra 2nd next). He has cap room to spare is not facing a single key UFA this summer (sorry Streit and Ryder aren't core to me.)

Good time to be a habs fan.

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03-21-2008, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
One year sure makes a difference. I find this list very fair and accurate. Burke's on top right now because he's the defending cup champion and that's good enough for me. Holland, Lamoriello and Sutter have brought incredible stability to their franchises. Gainey's the newbie in this group, but he's put his organization in such great shape in every respect that I think he's a no brainer to be considered a peer with other proven winners. Under Gainey's leadership the habs are winning on the ice with young home grown talent, have as stockpile of prospects and pretty much all our picks (missing some mid rounders this year, have an extra 2nd next). He has cap room to spare is not facing a single key UFA this summer (sorry Streit and Ryder aren't core to me.)

Good time to be a habs fan.
It is indeed a great time to be a Habfan. We have like 12 players under the age of 26 producing on a regular basis, a number of players in the AHL who will be pushing for a spot next year, a plethora of prospects in the NCAA/CHL/Europe, and a solid management staff. I hope Gainey turns into our Lamoriello/Holland and stays here for a very long time.


Last edited by bipolarhabfan: 03-21-2008 at 10:39 AM.
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03-21-2008, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
Gainey is clearly one of the best. Many a Leaf fan in Toronto has confessed to me that they wished they had him. Too bad so many Hab fans don't appreciate what they've got.
I'm a huge Gainey fan.. and I'm a big Gainey defender..


But I'm gonna use this thread to say that some of his moves have been downright lucky. He got very lucky that Briere and Souray signed elsewhere. And frankly.. we often talk about a "plan".

But sometimes... I question that the plan is well defined. This team would be very different right now with an injured Souray rather than a Hamrlik for example.

He's a good personel manager.. (Timmins, Brisebois, Gauthier, Carbonneau) and that has paid off. But as a talent evaluator and contract negociator.. he's nowhere near Lamoriello and Holland.

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03-21-2008, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
I'm a huge Gainey fan.. and I'm a big Gainey defender..


But I'm gonna use this thread to say that some of his moves have been downright lucky. He got very lucky that Briere and Souray signed elsewhere. And frankly.. we often talk about a "plan".

But sometimes... I question that the plan is well defined. This team would be very different right now with an injured Souray rather than a Hamrlik for example.

He's a good personel manager.. (Timmins, Brisebois, Gauthier, Carbonneau) and that has paid off. But as a talent evaluator and contract negociator.. he's nowhere near Lamoriello and Holland.
There are risks to basing our opinion of a "plan" on information that's been scrounged from various sources of various credibility, based on deals that were almost made, conversations that may or not have taken place, etc.

The hundreds perhaps thousands of behind the scene decisions that get made in the organization are based on the philosophy delivered from the top and whatever those decisions have been it's resulted in a constant stream of developed talent into the big club, a committment to ensuring that talent is given opportunity, retention of the team's cornerstone players, and the day in and day out committment to treating players fairly even when they're not performing to their potential.

If those aren't signs of a plan then really no GM in this league has a plan and we may as well stop using the word.

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03-21-2008, 11:48 AM
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I'd put Holland in 1st, Lamorielle in 2nd, Burke in 3rd, and Gainey 4th... because Holland has been the most consistant on a very long span (more than 10 years), Lamoriello comes in 2nd because of this too, Burke is the best of the last two years, and a lot can be argued about that the same as for Gainey, but Gainey had the hardest work of the four of them in the last five years, as Anaheim was in a better place when Burke arrived than the Habs were when Gainey arrived, also Burke had much more to play with and is also advantaged by the Ducks being in a attractive market (low taxes, beaches and sun all year long and a good fan base).

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03-21-2008, 11:51 AM
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Murray's management of the big three in Ottawa is brilliant,

He has Alfredson, Heatley, Spezza and Phillips signed pretty long term at good price.

If he ever corrects the Emery/Gerber situation, he rockets back to top 5

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03-21-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by KostitsyntheBagBaby View Post
I don't want to turn this into a whole 'thing' but Burke is the flavour of the year. To try to conceive of Burke as being a better GM than Lamoriello or Holland is complete lunacy. Where is Vancouver's offence if Burke is so outstanding at drafting? Why did Burke give a lot of credit to Murray for building the Ducks? I'm not saying he's not a good GM but there's good and then there's Detroit/New Jersey.

Holland and Lamoriello have lost some of the best players in the history of the game due to retirement and free agency, haven't drafted in the top 15(to my knowledge) and continue to keep their teams at the top of the league consistently.

Gainey deserves extra marks for dealing with the most scrutiny out of any GM and not flinching once. Actually, not only does he stick to the gameplan, he flies in the face of conventional wisdom and makes a 20 year old kid his starter while his team is battling for 1st in the most hockey-crazed city! The man has coconuts in his trousers.

agree with you about Burke. He hasn't a clear enough track record to put him up with the established greats of the game. Take away the work of Bryan Murray and the California weather and is Burke in the league of Lou Lam? - more like he's probably just a blustery lawyer who likes the sound of his own voice.

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03-21-2008, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KostitsyntheBagBaby View Post
I don't want to turn this into a whole 'thing' but Burke is the flavour of the year. To try to conceive of Burke as being a better GM than Lamoriello or Holland is complete lunacy. Where is Vancouver's offence if Burke is so outstanding at drafting? Why did Burke give a lot of credit to Murray for building the Ducks? I'm not saying he's not a good GM but there's good and then there's Detroit/New Jersey.

Holland and Lamoriello have lost some of the best players in the history of the game due to retirement and free agency, haven't drafted in the top 15(to my knowledge) and continue to keep their teams at the top of the league consistently.

Gainey deserves extra marks for dealing with the most scrutiny out of any GM and not flinching once. Actually, not only does he stick to the gameplan, he flies in the face of conventional wisdom and makes a 20 year old kid his starter while his team is battling for 1st in the most hockey-crazed city! The man has coconuts in his trousers.
+1


This is the craziest hockey market in the WORLD. THN should take that into consideration. Come on, most of the media outlets in MTL know what Bob has for dinner before its out of the oven.

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03-21-2008, 12:24 PM
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I think Brian Murray should be up there..
I think Burke is way over-rated..he's good, but not the top GM at all.

To me, Holland is #1 hands down. Detroit's been the only power house in the NHL year after year for what..at least 10years now?? with some key trades and great drafting.

Lamariello does a good job, but the only reason his team has been performing for a good number of years is thx to Brodeur. Give them Price, give them Turco, give them Hasek, give them any goalie and NJ is probably not even in a PO spot today..
In other words, Brodeur is making his life a lot easier.

Bob Gainey I get, him and Timmins are killing it over here, he's also took tough decision in DAL such as Iginla for Nieuwendyk( Joe got them the cup and was PO MVP)..

Darryl Sutter, i dont get really..

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03-21-2008, 01:19 PM
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Murray's management of the big three in Ottawa is brilliant,

He has Alfredson, Heatley, Spezza and Phillips signed pretty long term at good price.

If he ever corrects the Emery/Gerber situation, he rockets back to top 5

He just blew it so badly with Emery this year that I can't ignore it. Hired a new coach and fired him the same year, without ever stepping in to put out the fire in goal (a marked contrast with BG who has taken control of the Price situation since training camp.) Plus I give Muckler at least some of the credit for the team's core being in place.

Too soon to put Murray on the list for me.

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03-21-2008, 02:48 PM
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Burke gets more credit than he deserves. There is no way he should be ahead of Lamoriello and Holland. IMO he didn't do that great of a job in Vancouver and inherited a great team in Anaheim. If the Ducks go on to win a couple more cups, fine... but otherwise Lou & Ken have done much more in NJ & Detroit than Burke has ever done.

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03-21-2008, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think Brian Murray should be up there..
I think Burke is way over-rated..he's good, but not the top GM at all.

To me, Holland is #1 hands down. Detroit's been the only power house in the NHL year after year for what..at least 10years now?? with some key trades and great drafting.

Lamariello does a good job, but the only reason his team has been performing for a good number of years is thx to Brodeur. Give them Price, give them Turco, give them Hasek, give them any goalie and NJ is probably not even in a PO spot today..
In other words, Brodeur is making his life a lot easier.

Bob Gainey I get, him and Timmins are killing it over here, he's also took tough decision in DAL such as Iginla for Nieuwendyk( Joe got them the cup and was PO MVP)..

Darryl Sutter, i dont get really..
Lou Lam's success is not just tied to Brodeur.
He's implemented a hard nosed on ice system that has worked through several coaching regimes which has been proven to work regardless of personnel. He's drafted well and retained good people.

He's pretty much been the gold standard for managing in the NHL for some time.

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03-21-2008, 04:32 PM
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Gainey is a good GM, I have no beef with him being #4. He surrounds himself with good hockey people.

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03-21-2008, 04:38 PM
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the only one who doesn't deserve to be there is Lou Lamoriello.
What has he done in the recent years? If it wasn't of Brodeur, his team would be awful. He even found ways to sign UFAs like Mogilny, Matvichuk, Malakhov and another one that I don't remember the name, only to ship them to the farm to save cap space. Add to this what he's done with Claude Julien and we have a GM who's lucky to have Brodeur and his loyalty.

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03-21-2008, 04:41 PM
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Bryan Murray? How is he so elite?. Yes, he did draft a a crew of excellent players including Perry and Getzlaf but he also signed Fedorov to a ridiculous amount after the loss of Kariya.

He also thought that Essensa, Cheveldae or Ranford would do it for the Wings. Murray is getting too much credit for his Anaheim work. Burke took out his trash and DELIVERED!

Lou is the master IMO. Holland, Burke and then BOb....IMO

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03-21-2008, 04:43 PM
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1) Signs Theo to awful contract fixes it with trade for Aebischer
Gainey didn't re-sign Theo

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