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Vancouver scout: Latendresse ahead of Bertuzzi at 20

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Old
03-21-2008, 06:26 AM
  #126
couris
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
so... what's your point? Some guys are good at creating plays and some guys are better at finishing them, if we would have only Kostitsyn type players or Latendresse type players we'd be last in the conference, we need both to succeed, you need those garbage goals to wing games, man that was an awfull point you were trying to make, you desirve a
I think you can't read. Kostitsyn doesn't need that much a good center, he can create his own chances to SCORREE(see his highlights reel goals.)

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03-21-2008, 06:33 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
I think you can't read. Kostitsyn doesn't need that much a good center, he can create his own chances to SCORREE(see his highlights reel goals.)
So? does Kost score a highlight reel goal every single game? Just look at how he scored tonight, Latendresse will probably have his highlight reel moments too someday, what you said still doesn't make any sence, both would benefit from playing with better centers

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Old
03-21-2008, 07:02 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
So? does Kost score a highlight reel goal every single game? Just look at how he scored tonight, Latendresse will probably have his highlight reel moments too someday, what you said still doesn't make any sence, both would benefit from playing with better centers
What's so hard to understand? I am just telling that Kostitsyn do not need to rely so much on his center. For Latendresse, he needs someone to carry the puck.

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03-21-2008, 07:32 AM
  #129
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of course Latendresse is ahead of Bertuzzi's. Bertuzzi's hit a wall for a few years. Who knows if Latendresse will have the same thing? Maybe he'll be in the AHL next year (it would surprise me, though).

Playing with Koivu has helped him a lot and we see him play a lot better since the last few games.

I love his potential. He just needs to work very hard and improve his skating. He's a type of player we don't have and he'll be very useful in the near future.

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03-21-2008, 07:53 AM
  #130
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I love his potential. He just needs to work very hard and improve his skating. He's a type of player we don't have and he'll be very useful in the near future.
I wouldnt bank on him improving his skating, often this sort of intangeable is learned at a young age, I wouldnt expect a big improvement.

As far as not having a player who is like him Max Pacioretty is classified as a powerforward by many and he has agility Latendresse can only dream of.

Latendresse has yet to define the sort of player he is going to be, S.Kostitsyn has showed much more grit and sandpaper in his first 40 games at the NHL lvl then Latendresse has shown in almost two seasons. I dont get the hype surrounding Guy.

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03-21-2008, 08:10 AM
  #131
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I wouldnt bank on him improving his skating, often this sort of intangeable is learned at a young age, I wouldnt expect a big improvement.

As far as not having a player who is like him Max Pacioretty is classified as a powerforward by many and he has agility Latendresse can only dream of.

Latendresse has yet to define the sort of player he is going to be, S.Kostitsyn has showed much more grit and sandpaper in his first 40 games at the NHL lvl then Latendresse has shown in almost two seasons. I dont get the hype surrounding Guy.
I saw his skating improve this season. He beats players in races to the puck. His speed is still below average but I think it got better.

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03-21-2008, 08:47 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
What's so hard to understand? I am just telling that Kostitsyn do not need to rely so much on his center. For Latendresse, he needs someone to carry the puck.
what you were trying to do is bash Latendresse and praise Kostitsyn who has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, whatever, if you think your right so much well then there's nothing to discuss

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03-21-2008, 08:49 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Komisarovski View Post
of course Latendresse is ahead of Bertuzzi's. Bertuzzi's hit a wall for a few years. Who knows if Latendresse will have the same thing? Maybe he'll be in the AHL next year (it would surprise me, though).

Playing with Koivu has helped him a lot and we see him play a lot better since the last few games.

I love his potential. He just needs to work very hard and improve his skating. He's a type of player we don't have and he'll be very useful in the near future.
Dont't count on him ever playing in the AHL, in fact i expect for him to score ATLEAST 25 goals next year, he'l have a much bigger role, especially since it's 95% sure that Ryder isin't coming back

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Old
03-21-2008, 09:07 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
what you were trying to do is bash Latendresse and praise Kostitsyn who has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, whatever, if you think your right so much well then there's nothing to discuss
Bash Latendresse?? It's all in your head. Latendresse is one of my favourite youngster.

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03-21-2008, 09:16 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
Bash Latendresse?? It's all in your head. Latendresse is one of my favourite youngster.
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
Kostitsyn can create his own chances to score goals.
whatever you say...

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Old
03-21-2008, 09:26 AM
  #136
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All I know is that if Lats turns out like Bertuzzi, I'll be ****ing disappointed. He blows now.

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Old
03-21-2008, 04:43 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Here is a list of some notable power fowards and the number of AHL games they played.

Doan 39
Andrechuk 0
Bertuzzi 0
Leclair 8
Iginla 0
Shanahan 0
Pyatt 27
Morrow 0
Nash 0
Ryan Malone 3 (even though he was a 4th rounder)
Kevin Stevens 0 (even though he was a 6th rounder)
Tocchet 0 (even though he was a 6th rounder)

On the other hand, even a player like Brett Hull played 67 games in the AHL and Kostitsyn played 170 games there.

There is a strong precedence that players who are strong enough to play in the NHL like Lats, don't play in the minors.
I think I others just got owned on this, but I think I can mount some kind of counter argument to this. But those are some good stats on that one LG.

The thing I would counter with is that there's quite a mix of guys you put there. Those who were exceptional talents (Shanahan, Iginla and Nash) were known commodities and were sure-fire bets to excel in the NHL. Not the case with Lats and some of the other guys.

More important are those other guys because they are the ones closer to Lats. (Doan, Stevens, Bertuzzi, LeClair and Morrow) The guys who weren't surefire superstars and needed to work on a few things in their game. All of them had longer junior or NCAA careers and entered the NHL later than Lats and all of them did spent a few weeks in the minors, either IHL or in Doan's case AHL.

Would that have made a difference with Lats? Is a 2-4 week spell in the AHL a magical cure for all young players? Is his development hurt by the fact that he made the jump directly and only plays 12 mins a game? Who knows. But all the guys comparable (in one way or another) to Lats spent more time against kids their age and spent a few weeks in the minors before becoming full time NHLers. To me that's quite a noteworthy caveat to the list of zero AHL games played list.

Though in general I think you're correct in saying stronger players don't need ~2 years in the AHL to learn the pro-game.

Overall I think what people want is for Lats to excel in the NHL. But I think they also want to see a linear development. Guys like Pleks, Kost, Higgins, Komisarek etc...came along slowly but showed signs every year of getting better and better. They learned how to play complete games and when they were ready they stepped into the NHL with few difficulties.

Lats on the other hand is all over the place. He goes through spurts. The first 20 games he looked like he didn't belong in the NHL. The next 20 games he looked like a future top 6 player. The next 20 games he was again not showing much. Lately he's been playing well. Obviously young players are going to be inconsistent, but I think the main concern people have with Lats is that this wild inconsistency and lack of playing time could hurt his confidence and his long term development.

Finally, I'd really like to hear Pierre Maguire's take on this. He's the leading advocate for Lats spending a little time in the minors and these kinds of stats may be worth him looking over.

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03-21-2008, 04:54 PM
  #138
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Lats impressed me very much last night. I'm always surprised by how strong he is. There were a few instances where he would hit guys and you see that it has consequences like when that guys lost his helmet or when another player hit Lats and it's that other guy that got the most of the brunt. And last night was his type of match, if he had a mean streak he would have taken the opportunity to lay the body. I think this will come with age where he would develop hate for some teams and he will want to hurt them. Then it will be something to watch. Especially added to his offensive creativity.

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03-21-2008, 05:11 PM
  #139
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Well from my point of view, when Latendresse is put with offensive players and players or a good playmaker, he does better. He hasn't been able to find one of those this year in any of Dandenault/Begin/Lapierre/Smolinski and I'm not really suprised his offensive numbers aren't as great as they could be because: He is young and because he is not getting offensive linemates. Instead, he's thrust into a defensive position or a grinder position. See Perezhogin, he did well enough with offensive linemates but was restrained to playing with defensive players.

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03-21-2008, 05:20 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
During my morning reading rounds, I came across this blog article on Latendresse. I thought it was quite a good read about his progression this year and includes some interesting thoughts about the decisions management made to help continue to develop.

Cheers!

http://wwwrealitycheckeyesontheprize...guillaume.html
in terms of talent ..... lats > bertuzzi ...

the assist lats had on ryders goal vs boston ... that's something Bertuzzi can't do.

I don't like to compare an unproven player and a veteran who had a ''nice'' career, but I strongly believe latendresse is a more gifted player than bertuzzi...

how much work he's ready to put in will decide the outcome of his career... but he's got the talent... no doubt about it.

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Old
03-21-2008, 05:34 PM
  #141
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Well from my point of view, when Latendresse is put with offensive players and players or a good playmaker, he does better. He hasn't been able to find one of those this year in any of Dandenault/Begin/Lapierre/Smolinski and I'm not really suprised his offensive numbers aren't as great as they could be because: He is young and because he is not getting offensive linemates. Instead, he's thrust into a defensive position or a grinder position. See Perezhogin, he did well enough with offensive linemates but was restrained to playing with defensive players.
I like the link with Perezhogin . They are different kind of players for sure, but they both did well with good linemates but were restrained to play on the last lines .

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Old
03-21-2008, 06:38 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Lats impressed me very much last night. I'm always surprised by how strong he is. There were a few instances where he would hit guys and you see that it has consequences like when that guys lost his helmet or when another player hit Lats and it's that other guy that got the most of the brunt. And last night was his type of match, if he had a mean streak he would have taken the opportunity to lay the body. I think this will come with age where he would develop hate for some teams and he will want to hurt them. Then it will be something to watch. Especially added to his offensive creativity.
Funny, I thought their line was pretty bad for most of the game. Koivu gave the puck away to start the play for Boston's 1st goal, and Ryder seemed timid. I was getting frustrated with them, then Lats makes a nice little pass off the boards, Koivu makes the quick 1st step play that's his trademark, and Ryder does what got him to the league. So, all's well that ends well, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
I like the link with Perezhogin . They are different kind of players for sure, but they both did well with good linemates but were restrained to play on the last lines .
You know that's true, and it's a good point, but the problem is that it's hard to keep them on those lines during down periods. What's good for the individual's development isn't always best for the team.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-21-2008 at 07:18 PM.
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Old
03-21-2008, 07:37 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Funny, I thought their line was pretty bad for most of the game. Koivu gave the puck away to start the play for Boston's 1st goal, and Ryder seemed timid. I was getting frustrated with them, then Lats makes a nice little pass off the boards, Koivu makes the quick 1st step play that's his trademark, and Ryder does what got him to the league. So, all's well that ends well, I guess.

While the guys on this line sucked.

Seriously I think Lats was in the game all night and I liked the few hits he gave. And it was like as the game went along he was seemed more and more in the game, getting more intense every shifts. He played well defensively and was trying things. It felt like his type of game. And then he did his brilliant move off the boards...

All in all I understood why Carbo put him on the ice in the remaining minutes.

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