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Belarusian prospects. Updates, reports.

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:13 AM
  #26
kunabai
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Team looks terrible so far, poor offensive play, defense with terrible turnovers. Cutting Kostitsyn hurt.
check thread title

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02-15-2013, 05:02 PM
  #27
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i was in gomel at gomel-shakhter game on 13th february, if someone wants you can read article about gomel and the game and check some photos from the arena (in russian):
http://landeskog.ru/?p=21

gonna visit some more places and will write here some about prospects in near future

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02-16-2013, 11:38 AM
  #28
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i'm in grodno now, waiting for the train back to minsk, tomorrow going to write a report about lisovets

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02-17-2013, 01:06 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunabai View Post
i was in gomel at gomel-shakhter game on 13th february, if someone wants you can read article about gomel and the game and check some photos from the arena (in russian):
http://landeskog.ru/?p=21

gonna visit some more places and will write here some about prospects in near future
Any chance that can be put into english?

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01-21-2016, 04:02 PM
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Buinitsky signed in the USHL, must be getting some NHL interest. He looked pretty good at the WJC's despite not getting on the score sheet that often, really looked like a man amongst boys.

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05-06-2017, 05:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Buinitsky signed in the USHL, must be getting some NHL interest. He looked pretty good at the WJC's despite not getting on the score sheet that often, really looked like a man amongst boys.
Not necessarily, unfortunately. For some reason Belorussians tend to go to North American minor/junior leagues more often than their Russian counterparts. I guess its the matter of having a more difficult time than Russians in getting into a KHL team (they only have Dinamo as non-foreign players). They seem to often go straight from hockey schools to NA junior leagues, or from BLR Highest League (D2) to NA minors (with a faint hope of ending up in the NHL someday). It's stupid, but I believe that these kids hope to become the next Grabovsky, which is bound to happen if only they make it to North America .

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05-07-2017, 03:34 PM
  #32
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Yes that was an old post, we can see clearly the result of his decision now.

BTW Sharangovich was just drafted to the USHL. I was hoping he would stay with the U20 program in Belarus next season to develop chemistry with Martynov and other top U20 players for next years big tournament.

Anosov is considering a return home to the U20 team, he also did not fulfill expectations in north american junior leagues.

I am not aware of any prominent names from the 2000 group, is there anyone of significance who may be included in the U20 team next year?

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05-07-2017, 08:11 PM
  #33
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Not necessarily, unfortunately. For some reason Belorussians tend to go to North American minor/junior leagues more often than their Russian counterparts. I guess its the matter of having a more difficult time than Russians in getting into a KHL team (they only have Dinamo as non-foreign players). They seem to often go straight from hockey schools to NA junior leagues, or from BLR Highest League (D2) to NA minors (with a faint hope of ending up in the NHL someday). It's stupid, but I believe that these kids hope to become the next Grabovsky, which is bound to happen if only they make it to North America .
Hating on NA leagues is absolutely in fashion right now but these kids are making the best call. The domestic production system is a bust machine, some moves have been made to rectify the situation but for now any kid that can go should go. They'll likely return to the domestic mess in a year anyways and either return to the D2 they were already dominating in and can learn nothing from or 5 shifts a game in Minsk.

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05-08-2017, 05:06 AM
  #34
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Yeah, lets better ship kids to Russian leagues so they end up playing for team Russia instead of Belarus

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05-08-2017, 11:51 AM
  #35
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Yeah, lets better ship kids to Russian leagues so they end up playing for team Russia instead of Belarus
That might be the case for you guys, but we have two divisions worth of clubs for these kids to play in. All I'm saying is that they should move on to Extraleague instead of NA juniors, and hopefully, in a couple of years, to Dinamo. Instead of wasting away in some Canadian village until they're 20...

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05-08-2017, 12:50 PM
  #36
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That might be the case for you guys, but we have two divisions worth of clubs for these kids to play in. All I'm saying is that they should move on to Extraleague instead of NA juniors, and hopefully, in a couple of years, to Dinamo. Instead of wasting away in some Canadian village until they're 20...
Do you not realize how delusional this statement is from a historical perspective? We've seen the bust record of kids in the local development system. We've seen this song and dance before, the "in a couple years, to Dinamo" part doesn't happen. Even if you get oh so lucky like a Danila Karaban you get what, 3 minutes a game? You rot away on the bench or in the weak Extraleague which offers them no improvement value. These kids aren't delusional, better try your luck in NA and maybe get to the AHL or something and develop your game there, Extraleague can wait.

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05-08-2017, 04:20 PM
  #37
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Do you not realize how delusional this statement is from a historical perspective? We've seen the bust record of kids in the local development system. We've seen this song and dance before, the "in a couple years, to Dinamo" part doesn't happen.
Doesn't happen? Dinamo currently has Ustinenko, Khenkel, Lisovets, Ambrozheichik, Karaban, and Karnaukhov, as far as Belorussian players in their early 20s are concerned. Yeah, it's hard to get into KHL in your teens, but please explain to me how exactly is playing in the CHL preferable to playing in the Extraleague? Maybe you consider CHL to be stronger?

I understand going across the ocean if you really believe that you have a strong chance of making it to the NHL soon - like Kostitsyns or something. But otherwise?.. What the hell is the point? Is CHL going to prepare you for the KHL? Is it going to make you rich? Is it... what is it going to do, really? Other than keeping them amateurs for a few more years, I simply don't see anything that NA juniors do for European players.

PS. There's a system out there for young Belorussian players: the top ones that can make it to Dinamo on their own - are free to do so. There, unfortunately haven't been many of those (which lack of BLR representation in NHL entry draft confirms). Below that are people that can get to Extraleague clubs on their own. Still below, for players that can't quite make it on the roster of their team - there's U-20 team in the Extraleague. And finally - Highest Leagues. All these levels actually pay money. Why do kids still go to Canada? I don't know, and probably will never understand.

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05-08-2017, 07:08 PM
  #38
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Doesn't happen? Dinamo currently has Ustinenko, Khenkel, Lisovets, Ambrozheichik, Karaban, and Karnaukhov, as far as Belorussian players in their early 20s are concerned. Yeah, it's hard to get into KHL in your teens, but please explain to me how exactly is playing in the CHL preferable to playing in the Extraleague? Maybe you consider CHL to be stronger?
No, because in the CHL you get the visibility to potentially get to a league where you can actually develop your game. The Extraleague is weak, it's fine for an 18 year old but when you're 21-22 if you're still in the Extraleague all you're doing is losing time.

I've done some research on this issue before. Let's go through the history of Belarus U18s. Starting with the 2006-07 when they were promoted to the elite level, let's see how these boys have fared, we're talking the top scorers.

Stefanovich: Above average ECHL guy, 27 and still in the Extraleague, not dominating either. Never more than a few loan stints to Dinamo.
Demkov: 27 and another Extraleaguer, spent some stints in Dinamo and never got his shot either.
Vorishilov: Kazakh league, never made the show.
Brikun: Below average Extraleaguer, never made the show.
Mikhailov: Plays in Poland now, never made the show.
Revenko: Returned to Belarus long ago, never made the show, 27 and still in the Extraleague.
Fomin: Same as Revenko, still in the Extraleague and forgotten for good.
Drozd: Ok, now we have someone who made the show, made Dinamo. 27 years old, Never really got the chance to play serious minutes when he was younger now ask any Minsk fan he's crap.
Sheleg: One short stint in Dinamo, never got a chance, Extraleague now and not worth remembering.
Gotovets: Went over at a pretty young age, not a star by any stretch of the imagination but he used his AHL resume to get him a Dinamo contract and some playing time. Graborenko is also in that class, he went over and had a good stint and now he returned to Minsk too with some good time.
Suslo: Gomel system, never cracked the big show. Now not worth mentioning.
Korogoda: quit hockey.
Kobus: Average Extraleaguer now at 26
Malinovsky: Below average Extraleaguer now at 25, he's headed nowhere too.
Nogachyov: He was fed plenty of peanuts in his stints in Dinamo, never got his shot or the playing time he needed to develop. Off the Dinamo Payroll now but not a bad Extraleaguer.
Lopachuk: Same story, fed peanuts year after year in Dinamo. When he was 21-22 he was all the hype so he got more peanuts, as he got older got less and less, probably won't be on the payroll next year.
Zhevlochenko: Quit hockey.
Leonov: He's in Serbia now? Like Zhevlochenko the kid never came close to the show.
Levsha: 24 and a good Extraleaguer, will likely always be a good Extraleaguer.
Abmyotka: VHL now, wasn't a bad Extraleaguer, never made the show of course.
Garvus: This kid was the hype, even as recently as last year really. Injury problems, he's gotten the chance to consistently crack the mid-6 in Dinamo now but you can't make up for lost playing time. 23, will turn out to be solid, but 9 points says probably nothing crazy.
Dunayev: Norwegian second league, Swedish 4th league, not worth mentioning.
Pechur: As you can guess, never made the show. Below average Extraleaguer.
Samokhin: Never became anything special in the Extraleague, never made the show.
Kolenchukov: Plays in Estonia now.
Karakulko: Hasn't made the big show, average Extraleaguer.
Zhuravlyov: This kid also never materialized, not sure if he's in the Extraleague or what.
V.Valkov: 23 and hasn't made the show yet, below average Extraleaguer.
M.Valkov: Good extraleaguer, but as usual where do you go from there...
Kogalev: This guy made the WC team actually, good extraleaguer, but he turns 23 in 2 weeks probably doesn't have a shot at making the show.
Ambrozheichik: He was a big deal what, 2 years ago? Helped the U20 make the elite division. He had one stint I think in December where he played line 1 maybe 2-3 games. Otherwise, he got peanuts last year, he got peanuts this year, started out on the squad and ended up in the Extraleague by season's end.
Klyazvo: Doubt he's in Dinamo plans, might cut out some Extraleague work for himself.
Fadeyev: He's not in NT plans anymore. Getting some time in the Extraleague.
Titok: Going to be a good Extraleaguer when it's all said and done.
Kudryavatsev: Not in Dinamo plans of course, will be shelved in the Extraleague as the others for the duration of his career.
Markevich: Team Belarus U20 standout last year, WSHL this year.
Chernikov: Team Belarus U20 standout last year, unwanted by the show so he's doing some Extraleague work for the time being.
Goncahrov: Team Belarus U20 standout last year, also unwanted by the show, also doing some Extraleague work for the time being.
Bonus Round - Karaban: Beat out Ambrozheichik so he became very good friends with the bench this season in the KHL this year. Will do wonders for his development.
Ustinenko: Played a majority this season and last in the Extraleague but yes you are correct, he did get some peanuts this year and last in the KHL.

Looking to the roster next year. Cut Bailen, that's good. Ds will still have to compete with returning Ds, probably Gragnani (or another legio), then returning expats like Graborenko, Gotovets, Korobov, Yevenko will probably return, Lisovets has his spot, Falkovsky might return, any other aspiring Ds will have to wait their crucial development years in the Extraleague, or be like Khenkel and anchor the 4th pairing (wonderful for a player's development). Forwards are only slightly less crowded, Ellison, Klinkhammer, Materukhin, Stepanov all returning, Pavlovich too, other legios will be present, and some combination of Gavrus, Drozd, Kulakov, Kovryshin, perhaps Andrei Stas will return. Then fighting for their chances will be Karaban, Ambrozheichik, who knows who else. Given that context do you really think it's realistic say Belevich will get his chance to develop in Dinamo or even play? Unlikely.

The logic is really quite simple. The CHL offers good visibility for prospects wishing to perhaps spend their key developmental phase playing good time in leagues such as the AHL or the ECHL before bouncing back to Dinamo. Kids who stay or are bounced back are thrown into a vicious cycle of playing in the weaker Extraleague where development is hampered or sitting the bench in the Dinamo squad where development is also hampered.

The only young 20s athlete you mentioned who gets the high level playing time needed to develop into a high level athlete is Lisovets. That's a problem. Rumored fixes have been circulating like a second KHL team or combining the Extraleague with another national league and pooling resources to increase the level of play. Either way, any athlete who can find an outlet to escape the current system is probably acting in the best interest of his development.

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05-09-2017, 03:13 AM
  #39
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Kabidjan, here we go again. Generally I agree with your point, but besides 2-3 players, none of them ever had ceiling higher than Extraleague to begin with.

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05-09-2017, 03:20 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by IDiO View Post
That might be the case for you guys
How so? You are (and unfortunately will for foreseeable future) bleeding players to Russia. Oldest Karnaukhov, Kodola, Ustinenko and so on. When player goes to NA for his development you are at least sure he will stay eligible for your NT in future if kid becomes a player.

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05-09-2017, 11:44 AM
  #41
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I am not aware of any prominent names from the 2000 group, is there anyone of significance who may be included in the U20 team next year?
Unlikely, if only Azhgirey and Borschev manage to convert their antropometry into something useful. Azhgirey had 4+6 points (with 2+2 in the final game) at last Mac's tournament but does he seem to be a U20 player this year?
Gotovets? Not sure he's a U20-level player this year. Never saw him playing though.
There are Zhuk and Lapin who have good statistics in Russia but nobody has much expectations about them joining to Belarus U's.


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05-10-2017, 08:13 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by kabidjan18 View Post
That's a problem. Rumored fixes have been circulating like a second KHL team or combining the Extraleague with another national league and pooling resources to increase the level of play. Either way, any athlete who can find an outlet to escape the current system is probably acting in the best interest of his development.
Sorry, I think I'm not quite getting your point anymore... So the problem you see with the Extraleague is that it's too weak for the players to develop in? I'm sorry, but that's just a bit out there, considering the consistently high results shown by Belorussian teams in continental competitions (with Neman even winning Continental Cup). I thought your issue was with insufficient icetime (which, indeed, might be a problem).

Look, the level of the league is not huge. It's not even close to Swiss/German leagues. But as far as other countries close to us in hockey and financial level - we're doing ****ing phenomenal. Latvia has a peanut league, and Ukraine is not even worth mentioning. Poland has a fairly large league, but its strength is way below the Belorussian one. Could the Extraleague be stronger? Sure. Do what a lot of regional hockey fans have been calling for and shut down Dinamo to hell, and split the freed money between all the clubs in the country. Abracadabra, the league is suddenly the strength of VHL. Great.

What now? Once the player outgrows this wonder, he obviously goes to the KHL and... makes a Russian passport within a few weeks of arriving at his new club. Great!.. Lost another player who could be useful someday.

But, back to your point... I am absolutely certain, based on statistics of what players do in each other's leagues, the Extraleague is FAR stronger than CHL, ECHL, and other NA minors (excluding the AHL).

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05-10-2017, 12:57 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by IDiO View Post
Sorry, I think I'm not quite getting your point anymore... So the problem you see with the Extraleague is that it's too weak for the players to develop in? I'm sorry, but that's just a bit out there, considering the consistently high results shown by Belorussian teams in continental competitions (with Neman even winning Continental Cup). I thought your issue was with insufficient icetime (which, indeed, might be a problem).


The continental cup. Well I thought the Extraleague was weak but now that I know its clubs are better than the clubs in Iceland and Spain and Turkey I must admit I am truly sorry for my miscalculations.

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Look, the level of the league is not huge. It's not even close to Swiss/German leagues. But as far as other countries close to us in hockey and financial level - we're doing ****ing phenomenal. Latvia has a peanut league, and Ukraine is not even worth mentioning. Poland has a fairly large league, but its strength is way below the Belorussian one. Could the Extraleague be stronger? Sure. Do what a lot of regional hockey fans have been calling for and shut down Dinamo to hell, and split the freed money between all the clubs in the country. Abracadabra, the league is suddenly the strength of VHL. Great.
I'm not sure you want to be compared to Ukraine and Poland. Latvia makes its living off of exporting talent out of the country, they don't try to develop players in their local league.

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What now? Once the player outgrows this wonder, he obviously goes to the KHL and... makes a Russian passport within a few weeks of arriving at his new club. Great!.. Lost another player who could be useful someday.
But see, this hasn't been happening much recently. The players turning in their passports are juniors, not seniors. When we're talking about the gap between the KHL, Extraleague, the gap is significant enough that a player whose growth was stunted by playing in the Extraleague in his early 20s isn't going to make the jump. It's not about playing time, it's about quality playing time.

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But, back to your point... I am absolutely certain, based on statistics of what players do in each other's leagues, the Extraleague is FAR stronger than CHL, ECHL, and other NA minors (excluding the AHL).
Firstly, this wasn't my point, you can go back and read what I wrote. Secondly, of course it's stronger than the CHL because that's a junior league. There isn't much empirical evidence to suggest it's stronger than the ECHL. There have been very few crossovers, only two come to my memory, and the evidence was not in your favor. A claim like this will require evidence.

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06-04-2017, 01:31 PM
  #44
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It's old news but just to update this thread, Sharangovich is going to play next season in CHL. And there are rumors of up to seven 99- and 00-born players going to be drafted by CHL clubs this year.

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