HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXI -- Will we even care by July 1?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-13-2017, 08:18 AM
  #976
rvdnsx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 727
vCash: 500
Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder

rvdnsx is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:25 AM
  #977
twabby
Registered User
 
twabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,208
vCash: 500
I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.

twabby is online now  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:28 AM
  #978
Acallabeth
Curses & prophecies
 
Acallabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near an airfield
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 9,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvdnsx View Post
Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder
What an amazing proposal! So many playoff goals these players you're giving us combined for! Wow! And that 3rd rounder, you are really generous!

Acallabeth is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:32 AM
  #979
rvdnsx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
What an amazing proposal! So many playoff goals these players you're giving us combined for! Wow! And that 3rd rounder, you are really generous!
You don't need playoff goals! You had Mr. Game 7!!! Just wanted to get an idea of what it would take, shoot back a counter proposal.

rvdnsx is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:33 AM
  #980
rvdnsx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by twabby View Post
I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.
Our 3rd round pick in 2016, was projected as a potential 1st Rounder originally but I believe an injury and a subpar season leading up to the draft dropped him.

rvdnsx is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:37 AM
  #981
BrooklynCapsFan
Registered User
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 18,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Can anyone post a list of players in any sport that were stripped of their captaincy while still a core player on their team, who remained with the team?
Vinny won the Cup a couple years after losing the C.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:43 AM
  #982
Roughing
Registered User
 
Roughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 1,729
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvdnsx View Post
Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder
All day. Let me know where you want Ov dropped off.

Roughing is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:53 AM
  #983
rvdnsx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughing View Post
All day. Let me know where you want Ov dropped off.
How about 33rd and 6th in NYC?

rvdnsx is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:54 AM
  #984
The Instigator
Registered User
 
The Instigator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Can anyone post a list of players in any sport that were stripped of their captaincy while still a core player on their team, who remained with the team?
Just a few in the NHL are:
Patrick Marleau
Joe Thornton
Vincent Lecavalier
Brett Hull
Eric Lindros
Patrik Elias
Trevor Linden
Roberto Luongo (lol)

The Instigator is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 08:57 AM
  #985
rvdnsx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Instigator View Post
Just a few in the NHL are:
Patrick Marleau
Joe Thornton
Vincent Lecavalier
Brett Hull
Eric Lindros
Patrik Elias
Trevor Linden
Roberto Luongo (lol)
Wasn't really stripped but Brain Leetch relinquished his captaincy when Messier returned to NY Rangers during the dark ages.

rvdnsx is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 09:01 AM
  #986
Devil Dancer
Registered User
 
Devil Dancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post

And I laugh at this "hypothesis" some have (not you) of captaincy/leadership being meaningless. Anyone who's been on good teams at high levels will tell you both matter.
So no, you don't have any quantifiable evidence, just your limited personal experience.

And I never said leadership doesn't matter, I think it does. It just doesn't have to exclusively come from the C or the As. It should mostly flow from the coaching staff.

I have a hard time believing that 2009 Sidney Crosby, who was known league wide as an immature whiner, powered the Pens to the Cup through the magic of wearing the C.

Devil Dancer is online now  
Old
05-13-2017, 09:14 AM
  #987
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
So no, you don't have any quantifiable evidence, just your limited personal experience.

And I never said leadership doesn't matter, I think it does. It just doesn't have to exclusively come from the C or the As. It should mostly flow from the coaching staff.

I have a hard time believing that 2009 Sidney Crosby, who was known league wide as an immature whiner, powered the Pens to the Cup through the magic of wearing the C.

Quantifiable evidence? This isn't a trial or some sophomoric internet economics debate. It's more about experience, psychology, and relationships than plotted numbers or bloody gloves. You can try to undermine my authority on the matter but that doesn't change how the world works, or how the human brain works. Seek out other sources if you want to invest the kind of time in these studies that I have over the last 30+ years.

The 2009 Pens had some veteran leadership to go along with young talent, iirc. Where is your "quantifiable evidence" that Crosby was a bad captain and had no effect on that 2009 team?

__________________
g00n is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 10:48 AM
  #988
CapitalsCupFantasy
Wasted opportunities
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 36,942
vCash: 500
Quantifiable.....lol.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 10:53 AM
  #989
hockeyfan88
Registered User
 
hockeyfan88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by twabby View Post
I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.
He was once considered a top 5 talent in the draft but his stock fell off the cliff because of character concerns and supposed laziness. NYR got him in the 3rd round when they didn't have the 1st and 2nd round picks a few years ago if I'm not mistaken.

He has size and talent, but many people questioned his determination to improve his game and become one of the very best. He has the tools, though.

hockeyfan88 is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 12:16 PM
  #990
Dr John Carlson
Light is all over us
 
Dr John Carlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,661
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by twabby View Post
I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.
Might be the ultimate "all tools no toolbox" guy.

Dr John Carlson is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 12:22 PM
  #991
FrozenInferno
Go Leafs Go!
 
FrozenInferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 48
vCash: 500
Sean Day was one of the "exceptional status" prospects that got into the CHL early (like Tavares, Ekblad, McDavid, etc), but never really amounted to anything special. Could be a decent defenseman probably but nowhere near the pedigree of the guys I mentioned above.

FrozenInferno is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 12:52 PM
  #992
RandyHolt
Registered Loser
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 29,978
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Can anyone post a list of players in any sport that were stripped of their captaincy while still a core player on their team, who remained with the team?
Can anyone post a list of teams that have had their leagues premier scorer for ~10 years yet could never get to their conference finals under their captaincy, all through the prime years, with the GM spending to the max almost every one of those years?

I don't know why its frowned upon for a new coach to choose his own captain. We have a coaching and player carousel happening here, and few things have remained constant aside from our annual early playoff exit.


Last edited by RandyHolt; 05-13-2017 at 01:08 PM..
RandyHolt is offline  
Old
05-13-2017, 01:50 PM
  #993
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvdnsx View Post
Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder
Hell yes, Rangers are probably overpaying though.

um is offline  
Old
05-14-2017, 06:23 AM
  #994
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
 
TheGoldenJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,540
vCash: 500
Caps should let Williams and Alzner walk (unless Alzner takes a huge hometown discount). If they manage to do that, AND somehow manage to dump Orpik/trade him to Vegas, I can see them contend again next season.

They were the second best team in the playoffs this year, from what I saw, and outplayed the Pens in 5 of 7 games.

TheGoldenJet is offline  
Old
05-14-2017, 07:49 AM
  #995
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Vinny won the Cup a couple years after losing the C.
That's good. A list of one. Vinny was the only player to ever do that. Be stripped of the C and then win a cup with the same team. He was also 19 years old when to started as Captain and 21 when he had it removed.

txpd is offline  
Old
05-14-2017, 07:51 AM
  #996
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
I can see them contend again next season.

They were the second best team in the playoffs this year, from what I saw, and outplayed the Pens in 5 of 7 games.
you realize that is all beside the point. right?

txpd is offline  
Old
05-14-2017, 09:43 AM
  #997
M1K3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 11
vCash: 500
I wonder if this year's expansion draft might actually be a blessing in disguise?

Say that BMac calls Vegas and GMGM and offers him, Ovechkin. Sure, Vegas won't sell all their futures - that much is certain. But what if they don't have to?

Say that BMac offers Ovechkin and in exchange asks for one of Vegas first rounders over the next three years, where Vegas decides which pick to surrender. We then add further future considerations where the Caps are given the ability to freely pick one F and one D out of the group that Vegas selects in the expansion draft. Another condition could be that said players must at least together equal half of Ovechkin's cap hit (roughly 4,8 million).

Now I know what you are going to say; there's no way that two players in the expansion draft combined with a first rounder would be fair value for Ovy. No sir, it would not be. However, now picture that the Caps also adds a condition on their own where the deal requires Vegas to pick Orpik in the expansion draft as part of the trade.

Sure we wouldn't get full value for Ovy, but we could free up as much as 10 million in cap space. While Ovy's value can be debated to death, it stands to reason that moving Orpik's contract out without retaining salary and without sacrificing more futures would to a greater degree compensate for said reduction to Ovy's value.

Vegas gets a big name to sell them tickets as a newly started franchise, and the Caps gets some much-needed cap flexibility and can also resign any of our current UFA or RFA's.

So basically:

To Caps:
Expansion draft F
Expansion draft D
1:st rounder (Vegas choice of 2018, 19 or 20)
...And loads of cap space

To Vegas:
Ovechkin
Condition that Vegas picks Orpik in the expansion draft

M1K3 is offline  
Old
05-14-2017, 10:16 AM
  #998
OV Rocks
Registered User
 
OV Rocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Beach with Beer
Posts: 561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1K3 View Post
I wonder if this year's expansion draft might actually be a blessing in disguise?

Say that BMac calls Vegas and GMGM and offers him, Ovechkin. Sure, Vegas won't sell all their futures - that much is certain. But what if they don't have to?

Say that BMac offers Ovechkin and in exchange asks for one of Vegas first rounders over the next three years, where Vegas decides which pick to surrender. We then add further future considerations where the Caps are given the ability to freely pick one F and one D out of the group that Vegas selects in the expansion draft. Another condition could be that said players must at least together equal half of Ovechkin's cap hit (roughly 4,8 million).

Now I know what you are going to say; there's no way that two players in the expansion draft combined with a first rounder would be fair value for Ovy. No sir, it would not be. However, now picture that the Caps also adds a condition on their own where the deal requires Vegas to pick Orpik in the expansion draft as part of the trade.

Sure we wouldn't get full value for Ovy, but we could free up as much as 10 million in cap space. While Ovy's value can be debated to death, it stands to reason that moving Orpik's contract out without retaining salary and without sacrificing more futures would to a greater degree compensate for said reduction to Ovy's value.

Vegas gets a big name to sell them tickets as a newly started franchise, and the Caps gets some much-needed cap flexibility and can also resign any of our current UFA or RFA's.

So basically:

To Caps:
Expansion draft F
Expansion draft D
1:st rounder (Vegas choice of 2018, 19 or 20)
...And loads of cap space

To Vegas:
Ovechkin
Condition that Vegas picks Orpik in the expansion draft

Well I am in the boat of not trading Ovi but that deal also sounds too good to be true. Seems like it would be against some expansion draft rules but what do I know

OV Rocks is offline  
Old
05-14-2017, 11:14 AM
  #999
brachyrynchos
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 10
vCash: 500
I like that plan, and would like to build upon it.
This offseason:
Trade Ovechkin and Johansson
Re-sign Williams to 1yr deal, he's a mentor for the kids and fills the leadership void.
Trade rights to Alzner and Oshie for picks in 2019 draft.
Give all roster players summer homework, with an idea of what they need to work on, and what is expected.

2017-18 season:
Play kids in the role they are expected to play.
Continue to build a new culture with higher standards.
Plan on making playoffs.

2018 Trade Deadline:
Sell, sell sell!
Regardless of standings, the value of Beagle, Eller, Carlson, and Williams will be at their highest, propects and picks in '19 & '20.

Summer 2018:
Cap dump?
Cap space for free agents, but leave some space.

Trade Deadline 2019:
With plethora of picks and cap space, and a better assessent of the team needs, we buy top 6 guys for our bottom six.


This allows us to see where the kids are at, while restocking the system and keeping trade options open. With a team identity, with a window thatwe can actually see out of!
Yes, it will take not only alot of patience, but also everyone has to be on the same page, and everyone from the front office, to the coach, to the scouts, all have to their job effectively. The culture won't change overnight ,but with a team identity and a vision, it can happen.

brachyrynchos is offline  
Old
05-14-2017, 11:19 AM
  #1000
hockeykicker
Moderator
 
hockeykicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 21,837
vCash: 500
new thread up

hockeykicker is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.