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Old
05-19-2017, 12:52 PM
  #26
DRW204
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Don't see the ducks doing it. Lindholm passes the eye and analytics test with flying colors The guy is extraordinary

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05-19-2017, 12:52 PM
  #27
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Defensemen hold more value than forwards in general, unless we're talking about a #1 C.

Even look at the Johansen for Jones trade, if you don't like the Hall for Larsson as an example.

I've stated numerous times that I would not trade Ehlers, but this would be fairly good value for him if we were to move him.

That being said, i'll say this again: The Ducks will not be trading Lindholm.

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05-19-2017, 12:53 PM
  #28
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The ducks will move vatanen for their expansion situation, not Lindholm. And I doubt they make the move interconference

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05-19-2017, 12:58 PM
  #29
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I wouldn't make the deal but not because of value (it might actually favour us when the cost of young D is taken into account), but rather because I think it's the wrong approach to fix the D.

I don't think using one of young core pieces is the way to go. Even with the return being a young core piece. It's not horrible, I just don't think it's the best plan.

Going after a youngish D in the expansion draft IMO is a better choice. Getting a young D from a team in cap hell is a better choice. Using a draft pick, or some of our young prospects (even Roslo or Connor) is a better choice IMO.

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05-19-2017, 12:58 PM
  #30
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I don't want to trade Ehlers.

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05-19-2017, 01:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
He is the most exciting player with the puck that we have.

The new "core"
Yes, this!

Ehlers is a rare talent, in my view. He's also going to be part of the franchise's identity, I hope. Our D has some very good pieces, and I think we can find a different way to fill gaps.

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05-19-2017, 01:04 PM
  #32
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We know that Ehlers was top 30 in points in the NHL as a 20 yr old right? We already have 5 top 4 defenceman. Anyone who thinks we need more should look at Ottawa and Pittsburghs back end..

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05-19-2017, 01:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Weezeric View Post
We know that Ehlers was top 30 in points in the NHL as a 20 yr old right? We already have 5 top 4 defenceman. Anyone who thinks we need more should look at Ottawa and Pittsburghs back end..
yes but they're in the east...why don't you look at the two teams vying for the West Conference championships...look at their D cores as if we ever want to compete for a Cup, those are the guys we have to get through first! I also think no matter who wins the east or west the West will win.

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05-19-2017, 01:10 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Weezeric View Post
We know that Ehlers was top 30 in points in the NHL as a 20 yr old right? We already have 5 top 4 defenceman. Anyone who thinks we need more should look at Ottawa and Pittsburghs back end..
Or Nahsvilles or Anaheims

Defensive game has to improve from the Jets, Lindholm is an elite defensive u23 D-man. Then you have to ask how long are Enstrom& Myers going to be on the team?

Jets aren't moving Ehlers but Lindholm level D-men don't get traded either. Overall Lindholm has more value. Imagine signed Trouba.

You don't outscore a bad defense in the playoffs.

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05-19-2017, 01:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by scarbrow21 View Post
Problem is Lindholm isn't available later! the ONLY reason this can happen is because of the Ducks expansion situation. Lindholm is a top pairng defenseman at 23 years old. He's a possession beast. Again, I hate losing Ehlers BUT getting a true top pairng LHD gives the jets essentially two top pairing Defensive lines equivalent to what the two teams currently in the West Final are running! Enstrom just isn't going to cut it and our LHD depth can't replace him fast enough before the young RFAs need contracts. We're not getting anyone good without trading someone good!
No! And its not even close. Seriously. Think about how much Ehlers improved from the '16 season to the '17 season. We don't know that he is going to improve that much again but he might. Even if he improves that much again over the next 2 seasons he is competing for the Ross. No! No! No! A thousand times no. Right now Ehlers is as untouchable as a player can get.

You are quite right that we are not getting anyone good without trading someone good. We have lots of good players. Trade someone else.

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05-19-2017, 01:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by scarbrow21 View Post
yes but they're in the east...why don't you look at the two teams vying for the West Conference championships...look at their D cores as if we ever want to compete for a Cup, those are the guys we have to get through first! I also think no matter who wins the east or west the West will win.
You can win a multitude of ways. LA won differently than Chicago who won differently than Pitts. The Jets don't need to copy anyone they have the horses to forge their own way to win.

The Jets can (If Maurice utilizes his pieces correctly) ice a lightning quick incredibly talented top 9 that is also big and can play physical. We alo have a big mobile defense to jump into the rush and overwhelm teams. I'm all about setting a new way to win.

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05-19-2017, 01:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BB88 View Post
Or Nahsvilles or Anaheims

Defensive game has to improve from the Jets, Lindholm is an elite defensive u23 D-man. Then you have to ask how long are Enstrom& Myers going to be on the team?

Jets aren't moving Ehlers but Lindholm level D-men don't get traded either. Overall Lindholm has more value. Imagine signed Trouba.

You don't outscore a bad defense in the playoffs.
Chicago pretty much ran 3 D to the cup two years ago and Pittsburgh had a worse defence last year. Anaheim is playing bieksa. Nashville has a great defence but also are relying on a hot goalie. We have no idea how are D really is with Myers. If jmo/trouba can be a great top pair, buff can carry anyone (even chairot) to be a decent middle pair and I would argue enstrom/Myers would be the best 3rd pair in the league.

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05-19-2017, 01:30 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
You can win a multitude of ways. LA won differently than Chicago who one differently than Pitts. The Jets don't need to copy anyone they have the horses to forge their own way to win.

The Jets can (If Maurice utilizes his pieces correctly) ice a lightning quick incredibly talented top 9 that is also big and can play physical. We alo have a big mobile defense to jump into the rush and overwhelm teams. I'm all about setting a new way to win.
The point was not that we should be emulating CHI, LAK, NSH, or ANH. The point was just to counter what the other said about PIT and OTT.

Thing is, wingers are easier to find then top level D. Aa market like WPG has a harder time getting players to come here in UFA market then almost any other city so getting top level talent only happens through the draft or making big splashes with these kinds of assets. A top 4 featuring Morrisey, Trouba, Lindholm, Buff for the next 5 years not only allows us to be in compete now mode, but buys another 5 years to draft and develop at the cost of Nik Ehlers who, yes is a spectacular player who could chase the scoring lead each year...but we have Laine, Scheif, Wheeler, and potentially Connor who could also be doing that what we really need is to keep pucks out of our own net/zone!

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05-19-2017, 01:31 PM
  #39
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If I come across like this is the only way to fix the Jets I'm sorry that's not what I truly believe. In reality I just wanted to gauge what others thought of the idea.

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05-19-2017, 01:35 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by scarbrow21 View Post
The point was not that we should be emulating CHI, LAK, NSH, or ANH. The point was just to counter what the other said about PIT and OTT.

Thing is, wingers are easier to find then top level D. Aa market like WPG has a harder time getting players to come here in UFA market then almost any other city so getting top level talent only happens through the draft or making big splashes with these kinds of assets. A top 4 featuring Morrisey, Trouba, Lindholm, Buff for the next 5 years not only allows us to be in compete now mode, but buys another 5 years to draft and develop at the cost of Nik Ehlers who, yes is a spectacular player who could chase the scoring lead each year...but we have Laine, Scheif, Wheeler, and potentially Connor who could also be doing that what we really need is to keep pucks out of our own net/zone!
I don't think getting Lindholm is what pushes the team over the edge to "compete now mode". Jet's D is solid IMO. The problem is the system and below average goaltending and Lindholm doesn't change that...

I certainly agree that top level D is more valuable than elite wingers but I just don't see the need.

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05-19-2017, 01:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DashingDane View Post
I don't think getting Lindholm is what pushes the team over the edge to "compete now mode". Jet's D is solid IMO. The problem is the system and below average goaltending and Lindholm doesn't change that...

I certainly agree that top level D is more valuable than elite wingers but I just don't see the need.
Exactly. Fix the pk, take less penalties and get a better back up. That'll will be a better fix without using resources than than trading /signing guys

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05-19-2017, 01:41 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by DashingDane View Post
I don't think getting Lindholm is what pushes the team over the edge to "compete now mode". Jet's D is solid IMO. The problem is the system and below average goaltending and Lindholm doesn't change that...

I certainly agree that top level D is more valuable than elite wingers but I just don't see the need.
the need begins in 18/19 when you don't have Enstrom, Niku might (and remember that's a big if) be able to step into the bottom LHD but he's probably the best option.
This would set WPG up top 4 wise for the next 3 years MINIMUM and that's with Trouba playing hardball. If Trouba signs long term it's 5 years Min.

Allows time for prospects like Green, Nogier, Stanley, Poolman + Whomever we draft this year to grow properly.

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05-19-2017, 01:42 PM
  #43
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If I come across like this is the only way to fix the Jets I'm sorry that's not what I truly believe. In reality I just wanted to gauge what others thought of the idea.
Value is fine I just don't think we need to make drastic moves to move this thing forward.

Our biggest issues are goaltending and then systems imo. We get a good goalie and Maurice actually goes back to competent defensive scheme and the team looks a world better imo.

Plus it would be silly to trade an exempt forward for yet another dmen we would have to protect. If rather deal Myers 1 for 1 for a solid 2nd pairing LD. Move Toby to the third pair and bring back Postma.

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05-19-2017, 01:43 PM
  #44
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Trouba's STILL mad that we trade his BFF Bogo away. You want to make that mistake with Ehlers?

Value-wise though if Anaheim would do Ehlers for Lindholm straight up I think the Jets would jump on it. It's trading from depth on both sides and it sure shores up the LD.

Lindholm-Trouba
Morrissey-Buff
WhoCares-Myers

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05-19-2017, 01:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by scarbrow21 View Post
the need begins in 18/19 when you don't have Enstrom, Niku might (and remember that's a big if) be able to step into the bottom LHD but he's probably the best option.
This would set WPG up top 4 wise for the next 3 years MINIMUM and that's with Trouba playing hardball. If Trouba signs long term it's 5 years Min.

Allows time for prospects like Green, Nogier, Stanley, Poolman + Whomever we draft this year to grow properly.
Trade Myers for an equiviliant 2nd pairing LD.

Sign Toby for a 2 year deal to play on the third if need be.

Trade the 2018 first plus a prospect for a solid 2nd pairing guy if need be or sign one in FA.

The Jets have a number of options to get something done if need be. They aren't desperate like Edmonton was and as such shouldn't have to make that same type of deal.

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05-19-2017, 01:50 PM
  #46
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It's a fair proposal, in terms of value. Which is refreshing, if one compares the proposals on the main trade board. So kudos for that. And for what it's worth, I had to think about it for a while. Eventually we're likely going to have to trade off some of our forward talent for D. And you've got to give to get.

But ultimately, no.

My reasoning echoes some that others posted here. First off, I think the Jets are trying to create a family-type culture among the team, where you don't trade your best, hardest working, and most talented players. You hold on to them tight, especially if they want to be here. Secondly, I agree that Laine's relationship with Ehlers would be a factor. You want to keep Laine happy, and that means keeping his best bud around. Switching your buddy out for a Swede would be like kicking a Finn in the nuts.

For more concrete on-ice reasoning, I just don't think we're in that drastic need of a top-end defenseman. Not enough to trade away star talent like Ehlers. We can easily get by with another solid 2nd, or maybe even 3rd pairing guy on the left. We don't need to weaken our forwards to solve our D problem (even though Lindholm would obviously be great).

If Morrissey didn't kick as much ass as he did this season, it'd be a much more alluring proposal.

Finally, for selfish reasons, Ehlers is just so much fun to watch play. I like him as a Jet a lot.

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05-19-2017, 01:51 PM
  #47
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People here don't think you have to give up talent to get talent. I love Ehlers and he's going to be a star but we need D and goaltending.

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05-19-2017, 01:51 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by scarbrow21 View Post
the need begins in 18/19 when you don't have Enstrom, Niku might (and remember that's a big if) be able to step into the bottom LHD but he's probably the best option.
This would set WPG up top 4 wise for the next 3 years MINIMUM and that's with Trouba playing hardball. If Trouba signs long term it's 5 years Min.

Allows time for prospects like Green, Nogier, Stanley, Poolman + Whomever we draft this year to grow properly.
I agree that there will be a need in the future and that it will have to be addressed. I just don't think one of the best young D's in the league is necessary. IMO there is a good chance that multiple young forwards take another step forward next season which gives us more chips to trade. I would much rather be looking for a young 2/3 pairing guy that will never require us to break the bank and can play here for the next 5-10 years. I don't think we need a superstar defender.

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05-19-2017, 01:54 PM
  #49
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People here don't think you have to give up talent to get talent. I love Ehlers and he's going to be a star but we need D and goaltending.
The goalie market is set in the late 1st early 2nd plus a couple other mid round pick range so you don't need to give up proven talent for a guy like Raatna or Grubaur.

The Jets defense isn't really that bad, they have other options than trading an elite forward to upgrade.

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05-19-2017, 02:16 PM
  #50
Mortimer Snerd
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Value is fine I just don't think we need to make drastic moves to move this thing forward.

Our biggest issues are goaltending and then systems imo. We get a good goalie and Maurice actually goes back to competent defensive scheme and the team looks a world better imo.

Plus it would be silly to trade an exempt forward for yet another dmen we would have to protect. If rather deal Myers 1 for 1 for a solid 2nd pairing LD. Move Toby to the third pair and bring back Postma.
Without even projecting Ehlers further development I don't agree that the value is there. IMO Ehlers has more positive effect on the outcomes of games than what Lindholm has, or would have with us. I think Ehlers intimidates oppositions with his speed and creativity. He throws coaches off their game plans in trying to find match ups that shut him down. If they are successful then a hole is opened elsewhere. I think his value exceeds the points he scores himself.

Otherwise I agree with your post. We also have a surplus of forwards. We should be able to parlay some of them into 3rd pair upgrades or pipeline upgrades. There is no need to touch our best players.

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