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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

2017 Team Finland

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Old
05-18-2017, 12:43 PM
  #976
Hockeyisl1fe
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"No disrespect to the Finland, I'm a firm believer that Finland sweeping them is a huge fluke and robs the USA of truly accomplishing what their capable of. I've spent the last few minutes in pure disbelief and it just doesn't make sense to me. I've spent the entire group stage watching the USA play great hockey it's just not fair.

If the USA lose again I will face that the Finland deserved the win, but I am just 100% sure it was a fluke and does a big disservice to the USA and the world championship." That Preds - Hawks copypasta from Reddit is hilarious everytime it's applied

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05-18-2017, 12:52 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
I for sure hope that you are going to be right about him in that, that he would be able to learn from his mistakes in the future. His play style is too passive in my opinion, even if it worked perfectly now against the USA. I just have never liked the overly opportunistic overcoaching playstyles that ruined already soccer a long time ago, and has been seriously doing the same in hockey.
I can pretty much promise you that he will learn - because he already has!

He's been tweaking his playstyle game after game for these past two weeks. Honestly, there's been more variation to our game plan over these past two weeks than Kari Jalonen's preceding two years in total. More active, more passive, mixture of both, etcetera etcetera. While all the time of course keeping in mind that the player material is what it is. Some base nihilism needs to be maintained to battle it out against teams with better material.

It's another reason why I've been so supportive of him - he's shown to be an unusually adaptive coach. Tweaks galore. It's also given me some splendid snickers amongst all the sauna buddy accusations, since I've been able to tell this entire time that people complaining about "boring anti-hockey" obviously don't as much about the game as they think.

And I can guarantee you that your worry about the NHLers not wanting to play for him is going to be proven bogus as well. Partially because I figure it's been overblown as it is (as some-rage usually is), partially because the players will no doubt find more respect and willingness to listen towards a coach who manages to take a massive underdog team to the medal games.


Last edited by FiLe: 05-18-2017 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
05-18-2017, 01:06 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
I still think Marjamäki's hockey philosophy is horrible anti-hockey. And I still don't like him as our coach one bit. I for sure hope that you are going to be right about him in that, that he would be able to learn from his mistakes in the future. His play style is too passive in my opinion, even if it worked perfectly now against the USA. I just have never liked the overly opportunistic overcoaching playstyles that ruined already soccer a long time ago, and has been seriously doing the same in hockey.
You may have your own preferences against Marjamäki's hockey, but the style of play also has to be adjusted depending on what line-up is available. Let's face it, Finland is never going to have a stronger line-up in pure talent compared to for example Canada, Russia or Sweden. For example the Canadians are the best in the world in this fast up-tempo game, and there is no way Finland with a team of mostly Euro players (like this 2017 team) would beat Canada with playing the same style. The coach's job is to find the tactics that most likely will produce a victory, not the tactics that look the fanciest.

All of the recent three big victories in Finnish hockey have by the way been based on this similar (sometimes slow) puck-possession game that Marjamäki preaches: Jalonen (gold 2011), Kivi (gold 2014 U20), Jalonen (gold 2016 U20).

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05-18-2017, 01:18 PM
  #979
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Now its time for us Berry hill critizers to admit that somehow he got here, and its results sport. If he wins gold hes hero no mattet what. Getting to medal round is decent result for our hockey program so id let him continue, maybe upwarsa trend continues in olympics

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05-18-2017, 01:30 PM
  #980
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Yeah, it was pleasant surprise to see Marjamäki adapting his game plan right way. I have been bashing him severely, but nice to see some light finally.
This was first good game from team Finland at this tournament, and it came at the right time.
Team Usa's top dogs were terrible to be honest, but were they completely shut down by us or just sucking?
Did you notice Eichel, Gaudreau? They were absolute trash..

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Old
05-18-2017, 01:41 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Couchcaptain View Post
Yeah, it was pleasant surprise to see Marjamäki adapting his game plan right way. I have been bashing him severely, but nice to see some light finally.
This was first good game from team Finland at this tournament, and it came at the right time.
Team Usa's top dogs were terrible to be honest, but were they completely shut down by us or just sucking?
Did you notice Eichel, Gaudreau? They were absolute trash..
Yeah they were goaded into a trap really. They expected an easy afternoon and underestimated the opponent, results look like this.

I'm quite surprised on how well Finland played after the ****show I watched in the previous game, looks like they changed a lot.

That roster should not be in the medal rounds but now it is. As much as I hated Marjamaki's style and his results, this speaks for itself. He knew what he was doing with the pieces he was offered to work with.

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05-18-2017, 03:23 PM
  #982
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I like how much opinions change after one game. People come up with completely opposite conclusions after this quarter final game. This tournament is all about one game, the quarter final game. That game decides if your tournament is a success or a failure. To me it sounds pretty funny but it is true. Talk about sample sizes

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05-18-2017, 03:28 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by FinRanger View Post
I like how much opinions change after one game. People come up with completely opposite conclusions after this quarter final game. This tournament is all about one game, the quarter final game. That game decides if your tournament is a success or a failure. To me it sounds pretty funny but it is true. Talk about sample sizes
That actually is true, if we assumr that we always make the qf no matter what.. (kop kop)

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05-18-2017, 03:48 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
That actually is true, if we assumr that we always make the qf no matter what.. (kop kop)
I have to admit that I had some minor doubts this year if we could even make the quarter those first games are mostly for team to adjust its system and test out some things and then it is about this one game. Everything that comes after quarter is a plus in my opinion.

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05-18-2017, 04:02 PM
  #985
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I wasnt Sure Marja is able to adapt. He did. The game went our way. Great. I still dont like the way we play (of course i take into account the available player material) and the apparent issues with some senior players, but the result leaves me a little bit speechless.

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05-18-2017, 04:36 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Couchcaptain View Post
Yeah, it was pleasant surprise to see Marjamäki adapting his game plan right way. I have been bashing him severely, but nice to see some light finally.
This was first good game from team Finland at this tournament, and it came at the right time.
Team Usa's top dogs were terrible to be honest, but were they completely shut down by us or just sucking?
Did you notice Eichel, Gaudreau? They were absolute trash..
Agreed, this game was huge for the coach.

Im still somewhat bitter of the pre season but i may look past that if he turns out he can do this.

Putting aho at c definatly sped up the proccess

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Old
05-19-2017, 04:52 AM
  #987
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Hold your horses and don't jump the gun. Give credit when credit is due, yeah, but I will reserve my judgement until the Sweden semifinal has been battled, fought, and suffered. The jury regarding Berry Hill's cojones and competence is still out and only after that semifinal game I - or any of you fanboys of mr. Berry Hill (who btw reminds me of my nephew, 7 years old, startlingly by his facial features and expressions), for that matter - can really assess his performance and abilities as a National Team head ache --- eh, I mean coach.


Last edited by Loffer: 05-19-2017 at 04:59 AM.
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Old
05-19-2017, 05:05 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Hold your horses and don't jump the gun. Give credit when credit is due, yeah, but I will reserve my judgement until the Sweden semifinal has been battled, fought, and suffered. The jury regarding Berry Hill's cojones and competence is still out and only after that semifinal game I - or any of you fanboys of mr. Berry Hill (who btw reminds me of my nephew, 7 years old, startlingly by his facial features and expressions), for that matter - can really assess his performance and abilities as a National Team head ache --- eh, I mean coach.
Nah, ain't nobody getting fired after a final-four finish with that roster. Just not happening. He secured his job for the next year with that USA win.

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Old
05-19-2017, 05:08 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by rduck1 View Post
Nah, ain't nobody getting fired after a final-four finish with that roster. Just not happening. He secured his job for the next year with that USA win.
That is not my point and couldn't care less about cabinet politics in this life of passions and emotions I lead - I was talking about the objective, independent evaluation of mr. Berry Hill's performance in this tournament as the head strategist and leader of the team. And the time to do it is not yet, my friends, not yet.

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Old
05-19-2017, 05:12 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Hold your horses and don't jump the gun. Give credit when credit is due, yeah, but I will reserve my judgement until the Sweden semifinal has been battled, fought, and suffered. The jury regarding Berry Hill's cojones and competence is still out and only after that semifinal game I - or any of you fanboys of mr. Berry Hill (who btw reminds me of my nephew, 7 years old, startlingly by his facial features and expressions), for that matter - can really assess his performance and abilities as a National Team head ache --- eh, I mean coach.
The tournament is already a success, no matter if they lose 10-0 against Sweden. Nobody expected this team of Euro nobodies (+Filppula and a couple of young NHL players that are still 5 years away from their prime) to advance to the medal games. Any win that follows now is really just a bonus. If we look at pure material, this team would rank no higher than 6th or 7th in the tournament, so Mr. Berry already did better than expected.

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Old
05-19-2017, 05:14 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Now its time for us Berry hill critizers to admit that somehow he got here, and its results sport. If he wins gold hes hero no mattet what. Getting to medal round is decent result for our hockey program so id let him continue, maybe upwarsa trend continues in olympics
Don't worry... he won't win a game the rest of the tournament, and hopefully this won't delay his firing.

One time win against a good opponent does not automatically redeem him. The team has to show ability to consistently perform.

One more win in the tournament and I will eat my socks, but I am fairly certain that it will not happen.

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Old
05-19-2017, 05:16 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by rduck1 View Post
Nah, ain't nobody getting fired after a final-four finish with that roster. Just not happening. He secured his job for the next year with that USA win.
Unfortunately, you are right.

Wondering why not Risto Dufva ?

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Old
05-19-2017, 05:17 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by stonec View Post
The tournament is already a success, no matter if they lose 10-0 against Sweden. Nobody expected this team of Euro nobodies (+Filppula and a couple of young NHL players that are still 5 years away from their prime) to carry this team to the medal games. Any win that follows now is really just a bonus. If we look at pure material, this team would rank no higher than 6th or 7th in the tournament, so Mr. Berry already did better than expected.
I disagree. It might be a formal "success" by the final ranking as the 4th but in the real reality, as a performance it still sucks in my eyes big time as a whole if they end this run by losing like chickens against the always so stylish and handsome Swedes, the primus inter pares example of which is of course mr. King Henrik, the ****ing slick mofo.

Edit: Yeah, I know - the bronze game still which shouldn't even be played - or is it in the program still, hopefully not.


Last edited by Loffer: 05-19-2017 at 05:24 AM.
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Old
05-19-2017, 06:55 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
I disagree. It might be a formal "success" by the final ranking as the 4th but in the real reality, as a performance it still sucks in my eyes big time as a whole if they end this run by losing like chickens against the always so stylish and handsome Swedes, the primus inter pares example of which is of course mr. King Henrik, the ****ing slick mofo.

Edit: Yeah, I know - the bronze game still which shouldn't even be played - or is it in the program still, hopefully not.
Well, the tournament format is all about "win the right games", as Tami says. So far it has worked and nobody will remember the bad group stage games if they play the final three games well (1/3 already accomplished), but we'll see.

By default, Sweden should beat Finland clearly, considering the huge material advantage that this year's Swedish team has. Anything less than a clear victory for Sweden and Finland has overachieved in my books.

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05-19-2017, 08:58 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
I disagree. It might be a formal "success" by the final ranking as the 4th but in the real reality, as a performance it still sucks in my eyes big time as a whole if they end this run by losing like chickens against the always so stylish and handsome Swedes, the primus inter pares example of which is of course mr. King Henrik, the ****ing slick mofo.

Edit: Yeah, I know - the bronze game still which shouldn't even be played - or is it in the program still, hopefully not.
I wish I could have written my opinion as eloquently as you have

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Old
05-19-2017, 01:01 PM
  #996
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It's kind of amazing so many of you are so negative and whiny. I don't get it to be honest. Is just game, the team pulled off a miracle and gets to play for medals, relax and enjoy. Be happy for the guys, they got a fifth of the country watching them circle the ice and beat the odds, now they can finish the tournament without pressure. Is just game.

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Old
05-19-2017, 01:21 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by Mara View Post
It's kind of amazing so many of you are so negative and whiny. I don't get it to be honest. Is just game, the team pulled off a miracle and gets to play for medals, relax and enjoy. Be happy for the guys, they got a fifth of the country watching them circle the ice and beat the odds, now they can finish the tournament without pressure. Is just game.
There is a vocal and articulated minority here who thinks otherwise, at least for the sake of the argument (me L'Offer included): A) "It is just a game" is not my kinda argument as regards games and their role in human life and society. b) The advice of being happy is too a vague idea to amount to anything interesting or uselful. It is similar to "it is just a game" in the sense it assumes there were no real complexities or conflictst involved in the quest of happiness when there obviously are, and the same applies to games. C) What is the fun of being always so "happy" and uncritical in this complex and subtle life. Not my kinda happiness, anyway: not my cup of tea. So, ice hockey is not just an easy way of shutting down one's own thinking, even less it is a way of calming one's emotional engine.

Be happy all you want. But be careful what you wish for and what you interpret as "happiness".

And, "theStudent", don't be too sorry. You are still a student. I am a wise, learned man with lots of reading behind. And one of the better writers on this planet. A ****ing serious pro. So, you will get there in due course, if you are ready for its high demands.

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Old
05-19-2017, 02:59 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Now its time for us Berry hill critizers to admit that somehow he got here, and its results sport.
What if we won mostly because USA players had hangover? They were so bad and it wouldn't be unprecedented.

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Old
05-19-2017, 04:36 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by Cuthalu View Post
What if we won mostly because USA players had hangover? They were so bad and it wouldn't be unprecedented.
As awkward and unpleasant as that possibility sounds it has some nasty hard core truth in it, most likely. In any case Mr. Berry Hill must redeem himself still in the next game against the infuriatingly self-indulgent Swedes for us true critics to give him the credit, other than the speculative one called the benefit of the doubt which I don't see as a real material option of appreciation.

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Old
05-19-2017, 05:47 PM
  #1000
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I don't care about the finals. I just want to beat the Swedes and their "all-star" team.

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