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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 2

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Old
05-19-2017, 10:42 AM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Mattilaus View Post
Now put your Sabres hat back on and explain why that Sabres would give up that much for a lottery ticket and a cap dump.

Just because that is what it would take to get it done for Dallas, that doesn't mean it's a deal Buffalo should do. Sometimes there just isn't a deal there.
It's a matter of loving Heiskanen that much to make that sort of deal. It's painful for both sides which probably makes it close. The point stands though that this 3 OA goes far in fixing Dallas' in the middle while 8 OA does not.

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05-19-2017, 11:09 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
It's a matter of loving Heiskanen that much to make that sort of deal. It's painful for both sides which probably makes it close. The point stands though that this 3 OA goes far in fixing Dallas' in the middle while 8 OA does not.
That kind of love and overpayment gets you into a tight spot.

That pick, heiskanen if he is the guy, has to turn into a beast for it to be worth it. At least a risto level guy and quickly.

I mean you should be able to get a guy like fowler for less than that offer. And you don't have to guess or hope that he pans out.

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05-19-2017, 11:40 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Interesting responses. So, I live in Texas. Besides the Sabres, the one team I've got a decent beat on is the Stars. I get to a lot of Texas Stars games. This deal is from their perspective, not Buffalo's.

The pundits are wrong about Dallas wanting/needing Heiskanen. Check Nill's interview out on the trade board, in the Dallas 3rd pick trade thread. He's talking about centers. Not defenseman.

Dallas needs centers. They're fine on defense. Honka is coming up, and they'll have a solid top 4 for years. After Seguin, the team is dangerously low on center depth. Spezza is getting older, Faksa is decent, and maybe Dickinson develops, but if he plays in Dallas, he'll center a more defensive line. There's no Reinhart. There's not even an Asplund.

So, needing a center, why would Nill trade out of #3 overall? They're in position to take Glass, Mittelstadt, Vilardi, or even Pettersson.

Be the Dallas GM. You're moving from 3 to 8. Wargaming the draft, you're looking at:
3.) Buffalo taking Heiskanen
4.) Colorado taking a center
5.) Vancouver taking a center
6.) Vegas taking a center
7.) Arizona taking Makar

Which leaves Rasmussen, and probably Pettersson. Unless someone takes Liljegren or Tippett.

What would entice Nill to bypass a potential #2 center like Glass or Vilardi, and downgrade to Rasmussen or Pettersson, at the game's most important position?

One guaranteed year of Kane won't do it. Add a 2nd rounder, and he's thinking about it. Add in a center prospect like Asplund, and he might pull the trigger. Niemi is a one year deal - it's not like Nill will find a dearth of takers for that deal.

You think it's bad for Buffalo. Put your Stars hat on. That's what it'd take to get Nill to move.
That is a well thought out response. From an outside perspective they seem pretty well down the middle with Seguin, Spezza, Faksa, Eakin and Janmark with Shore,Dickinson and Smith in the pipeline.

If they are looking for a center, we are currently not their best option. The original offer is terrible for us without the need/want factored in. I am not high on Heiskanen so moving up to three would be to grab Mittlestadt and keeping 8 for Makar or Liljegren. Doesn't look like there is a deal to be made.

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05-19-2017, 12:47 PM
  #379
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Mr. Eklund is stating that Boston really want both Landeskog and Evander Kane and that Kane is 100% gone from Buffalo. This I fully believe as the Pegulas want his reputation out of town. Never thought of Boston as a destination. Bruins have some good young talent, I wonder what would entice Botterill ( and no McAvoy won't be on the table.)

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05-19-2017, 01:52 PM
  #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashsabre View Post
Mr. Eklund is stating that Boston really want both Landeskog and Evander Kane and that Kane is 100% gone from Buffalo. This I fully believe as the Pegulas want his reputation out of town. Never thought of Boston as a destination. Bruins have some good young talent, I wonder what would entice Botterill ( and no McAvoy won't be on the table.)
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Old
05-19-2017, 02:19 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by flashsabre View Post
Mr. Eklund is stating that Boston really want both Landeskog and Evander Kane and that Kane is 100% gone from Buffalo. This I fully believe as the Pegulas want his reputation out of town. Never thought of Boston as a destination. Bruins have some good young talent, I wonder what would entice Botterill ( and no McAvoy won't be on the table.)
Saying Kane will be gone as he goes into his UFA year is such amazing prognostication. Ek, such an innovator.

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05-19-2017, 02:34 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Saying Kane will be gone as he goes into his UFA year is such amazing prognostication. Ek, such an innovator.
I wonder if he can tell me what's going to happen with the sun in about 6 hours...?

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05-19-2017, 03:13 PM
  #383
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I wonder if he can tell me what's going to happen with the sun in about 6 hours...?


Yeah, really. Ek predicts dark, followed by light! All hail the great and powerful Ek!

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05-19-2017, 03:17 PM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattilaus View Post
Now put your Sabres hat back on and explain why that Sabres would give up that much for a lottery ticket and a cap dump.

Just because that is what it would take to get it done for Dallas, that doesn't mean it's a deal Buffalo should do. Sometimes there just isn't a deal there.
Couple thoughts:

- I'm not advocating trading up to #3. Just telling you what it'd cost.
- What if GMJB thinks Heiskanen is the next Lindholm? Maybe he's willing to part with those assets? That's changes the equation from "lottery ticket" to something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SundherDome View Post
That is a well thought out response. From an outside perspective they seem pretty well down the middle with Seguin, Spezza, Faksa, Eakin and Janmark with Shore,Dickinson and Smith in the pipeline.
Shore doesn't project for the Stars as the #2C they really need once Spezza starts to slow. Dickinson's been more of a two-way center, which isn't bad. But I've watching him a bunch. He's more Girgensons than Kesler. Smith is hyped, mostly because he's the fan favorite in the HEB Center. He's closer to Phil Varone than an actual NHL contributor.

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05-19-2017, 07:21 PM
  #385
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One thing I'm wondering is how strict they'll be one wanting the defensemen to play their correct side (right handed right side and vice versa).

Just thinking that this would open our possibilities a bit more. Maybe then they have a bottom pairing of Antipin-Bogosian with Antipin on the right and Bogosian on the left if each is more comfortable on their off-hand side. Or if they went ahead and were able to acquire a player like Vatanen, maybe they could pair Vatanen-Ristolainen together? Just think it would open a lot of possibilities. For years the Red Wings had one of the best d-cores in the league and I believe had 5 lefties and one righty.

Just saying the onus should be on getting the best player, not the correct handed player.

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Old
05-20-2017, 02:36 AM
  #386
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Yes, handedness should not come into the equation. If the best six dmen you have are all right handed then that's the way it is. Trying to evenly match up a right and left handed shot on each pairing is wishful thinking.

McCabe, Gorges and Falk shoot left. Only McCabe should be in the top 6 with Gorges the 7 and Falk in Rochester. Risto, Bogo and Antipin are RD. I'm guessing though that the main dman acquired this off season WILL be a LHD, a long term partner for Risto. Fowler, Brodin etc are all fine with me. Even Alzner is suitable as a #2 playing tough ES minutes. I just want to see Risto down to 24 minutes a game and McCabe being on a separate pairing from Risto to spread some talent out in the top 4. Im willing to give Bogo another year. He has been a legit top 4 D for several years playing on some bad teams. I still think he can be a quality #3 dman stabilizing a second pairing getting 21-22 minutes a night including a lot of PK and maybe PP2 time.


Sign Alzner+Antipin. Trade #8 for Brodin, and the defense is set for half a decade.

Brodin-Risto
Alzner-Bogo
McCabe-Antipin
Gorges

Guhle plays in Rochester. In 18-19, Guhle steps in to replace Bogo as he is moved for salary reasons and/or to help the forwards up front. Bogo with two years left is a lot easier to move. But you can't say that a defense such as

Brodin-Risto
Alzner-Antipin
McCabe-Guhle

Wouldn't be one of the better defenses in the whole league. If we are able to have McCabe play on the bottom pairing well then that proves how good our D would be. And this idea isn't even outlandish. By all accounts Antipin seems to be a 99.9% lock to sign here. Alzner should be able to be signed for 5-5.5 mil AAV over 5-6 years. And #8 for Brodin is a fair offer. And honestly Guhle might force his way in Buffalo for 17-18.

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05-20-2017, 04:15 AM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
Yes, handedness should not come into the equation. If the best six dmen you have are all right handed then that's the way it is. Trying to evenly match up a right and left handed shot on each pairing is wishful thinking.

McCabe, Gorges and Falk shoot left. Only McCabe should be in the top 6 with Gorges the 7 and Falk in Rochester. Risto, Bogo and Antipin are RD. I'm guessing though that the main dman acquired this off season WILL be a LHD, a long term partner for Risto. Fowler, Brodin etc are all fine with me. Even Alzner is suitable as a #2 playing tough ES minutes. I just want to see Risto down to 24 minutes a game and McCabe being on a separate pairing from Risto to spread some talent out in the top 4. Im willing to give Bogo another year. He has been a legit top 4 D for several years playing on some bad teams. I still think he can be a quality #3 dman stabilizing a second pairing getting 21-22 minutes a night including a lot of PK and maybe PP2 time.


Sign Alzner+Antipin. Trade #8 for Brodin, and the defense is set for half a decade.

Brodin-Risto
Alzner-Bogo
McCabe-Antipin
Gorges

Guhle plays in Rochester. In 18-19, Guhle steps in to replace Bogo as he is moved for salary reasons and/or to help the forwards up front. Bogo with two years left is a lot easier to move. But you can't say that a defense such as

Brodin-Risto
Alzner-Antipin
McCabe-Guhle

Wouldn't be one of the better defenses in the whole league. If we are able to have McCabe play on the bottom pairing well then that proves how good our D would be. And this idea isn't even outlandish. By all accounts Antipin seems to be a 99.9% lock to sign here. Alzner should be able to be signed for 5-5.5 mil AAV over 5-6 years. And #8 for Brodin is a fair offer. And honestly Guhle might force his way in Buffalo for 17-18.
Alzner is just not that good, he's nothing like where the league is now with regards to what makes a dman truly effective. Is he better than Josh Gorges? Yes and that's all that can be said for him. With a better coach/system all our current dmen save Gorges are better than Alzner.

Paying him 5-5.5 M for 5 or 6 years is a horrible idea and one I guarantee Botterill will have no interest in.

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Old
05-20-2017, 05:07 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by BiPolarBear View Post
Alzner is just not that good, he's nothing like where the league is now with regards to what makes a dman truly effective. Is he better than Josh Gorges? Yes and that's all that can be said for him. With a better coach/system all our current dmen save Gorges are better than Alzner.

Paying him 5-5.5 M for 5 or 6 years is a horrible idea and one I guarantee Botterill will have no interest in.
That's just a laughable comment. Bogosian is better then Alzner? Please. McCabe is not better either. Alzner would easily be our second best dman. Yeah a better coach and system will magically make all our dmen legit top 4 guys Alzner is an iron man top 4 dman. He is better then McCabe. He is easily worth Bogosian money. And he costs no assets. People keep crying about the D, signing Alzner for free makes the D better period. Making the contract front loaded also makes Alzner easier to move towards the end of the deal if need be. Let's see, trade high end assets for Tanev to watch him play 60 games a year or sign Alzner for nothing but cap space and watch him play 82 games every single season, tough one

Alzner gets by far the most DZS in Washington. Want a dman to get the tough defensive assignments? That's Alzner. His durability is a major asset. Sorry, I place value on a player being able to be depended on 82 games a season.

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05-20-2017, 05:30 AM
  #389
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Not even Caps fans want Alzner on their team.

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05-20-2017, 06:29 AM
  #390
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Signing Alzner to a long-term contract for anything substantial is just a terrible idea.

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05-20-2017, 08:45 AM
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
Yes, handedness should not come into the equation. If the best six dmen you have are all right handed then that's the way it is. Trying to evenly match up a right and left handed shot on each pairing is wishful thinking.

McCabe, Gorges and Falk shoot left. Only McCabe should be in the top 6 with Gorges the 7 and Falk in Rochester. Risto, Bogo and Antipin are RD. I'm guessing though that the main dman acquired this off season WILL be a LHD, a long term partner for Risto. Fowler, Brodin etc are all fine with me. Even Alzner is suitable as a #2 playing tough ES minutes. I just want to see Risto down to 24 minutes a game and McCabe being on a separate pairing from Risto to spread some talent out in the top 4. Im willing to give Bogo another year. He has been a legit top 4 D for several years playing on some bad teams. I still think he can be a quality #3 dman stabilizing a second pairing getting 21-22 minutes a night including a lot of PK and maybe PP2 time.


Sign Alzner+Antipin. Trade #8 for Brodin, and the defense is set for half a decade.

Brodin-Risto
Alzner-Bogo
McCabe-Antipin
Gorges

Guhle plays in Rochester. In 18-19, Guhle steps in to replace Bogo as he is moved for salary reasons and/or to help the forwards up front. Bogo with two years left is a lot easier to move. But you can't say that a defense such as

Brodin-Risto
Alzner-Antipin
McCabe-Guhle

Wouldn't be one of the better defenses in the whole league. If we are able to have McCabe play on the bottom pairing well then that proves how good our D would be. And this idea isn't even outlandish. By all accounts Antipin seems to be a 99.9% lock to sign here. Alzner should be able to be signed for 5-5.5 mil AAV over 5-6 years. And #8 for Brodin is a fair offer. And honestly Guhle might force his way in Buffalo for 17-18.
Signing Alzner is not a good idea. Anaheim went down this road a few years ago with Bieksa. Seemed like a great deal then, but it's become an albatross contract. Bieksa isn't terrible. But he's not worth the contract. His contract doesn't help Anaheim as they're re-signing core players. And now he's a liability to roster construction, since the Ducks have to protect him in the expansion draft.

As Alzner ages, he's going to be a bottom pairing physical presence. And he'll have a similar benefit/liability ratio as Orpik and Bieksa. Sabres already have Bogosian heading in that direction. But at least he's a very good skater and brings some offense. Bogosian also brings an intimidation factors that the skilled Sabres need. I'd rather see what Bogosian can do in a different system and better coaching, than sign Alzner.

Ristolainen, McCabe, Guhle, Antipin, and who comes in for Kane/8OA can fill a competent top 4, with Bogosian on the bottom pair providing physicality.

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05-20-2017, 10:02 AM
  #392
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Signing Alzer would be fine on a shorter term deal. Problem is, he's going to wait 5-6 years, which is a bad idea.

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05-20-2017, 10:56 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by flashsabre View Post
so Chris Lee is playing well for Team Canada's defence. Soon to be 37 but a tremendous skater who is one of the top dmen in the KHL. He is looking for an NHL opportunity and was Antipin's partner in the KHL. What is the downside of giving him a shot?

I don't need him to be a top pair guy or a long term solution but if he could come in for a year or two and add some depth as a PMD and make Antipin's transition easier why not.
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Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
A 37 year old rookie NHL defenseman who isn't all that big? I can't imagine anything going wrong with that. I like the connection to Antipin, I like that he shoots left, and he had a big year offensively in the KHL last season but I can't imagine there's a whole lot of gas left in that tank. I wouldn't hate it, if he comes fairly cheaply.
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I watched a decent amount of Lee collectively over the last two seasons.

He wouldn't be THE difference, but I'm not opposed to the idea. I'd be opposed to term, but not something on a year to year basis, something for which id doubt he leaves his Russian comfort zone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I don't see an issue as a depth add. His role fluctuating any where from bottom pairing to Amerks. Assuming he is open to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
Jon Cooper has been singing Lee's praises as having had a great ten days with the team, even though he was just called up when Barrie got hurt hurt himself. I'd imagine Tampa will have the advantage on signing him.
I've been watching him between KHL playoffs and this tournament and he reminds me of Jeep/Teppo in a way. Considering his last deal is up, why not bring him with the option to go back to the KHL if he wants to go if he doesn't make the top 7 out of camp? Old, sure, maybe doesn't make it out of camp, but he's got puck moving skills and a lot of experience if they are looking for a short-term improvement on the relative cheap.

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05-20-2017, 11:23 AM
  #394
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I've been watching him between KHL playoffs and this tournament and he reminds me of Jeep/Teppo in a way. Considering his last deal is up, why not bring him with the option to go back to the KHL if he wants to go if he doesn't make the top 7 out of camp? Old, sure, maybe doesn't make it out of camp, but he's got puck moving skills and a lot of experience if they are looking for a short-term improvement on the relative cheap.
Yep. This is the type of smart, inexpensive low risk move that can help rebuild the defense. Not much to lose giving it a try.

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05-20-2017, 12:39 PM
  #395
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Please forget about Alzner.

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05-20-2017, 12:43 PM
  #396
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Please forget about Alzner.
Is that called Alznerheimer's disease?

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05-20-2017, 01:30 PM
  #397
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Is that called Alznerheimer's disease?

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05-20-2017, 05:49 PM
  #398
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Alright, here's my attempt at an offseason plan:

1) Sign Antipin

2) Before the expansion draft, deal Kane and Baptiste to Vancouver for Edler

3) At the expansion draft, protect: O'Reilly, Okposo, Girgensons, Foligno, Larsson, Carrier, Moulson, Ristolainen, McCabe, Falk, & Lehner.

Expose: Ennis, Deslauriers, Bogosian, Gorges, & Ullmark

I think Vegas balks at Ennis and Bogosian's contracts and takes Ullmark.

4) After expansion, extend Franson (2 years, 3 million/year) and Nilsson (2 years, 1.5 million/year)

5) At the draft, trade Bogosian and a 5th to New Jersey for Ryan Clowe, prospect Blake Speers, and a 3rd.

6) In free agency sign the following:

Brian Boyle (3 years, 2.5 million/year)
Drew Stafford (2 years, 3 million/year)
Daniel Winnik (2 years, 2.5 million/year)


Final roster:

Eichel - O'Reilly - Stafford
Carrier - Reinhart - Okposo
Winnik - Boyle - Moulson
Foligno - Larsson - Bailey
Girgensons, Ennis

Edler - Ristolainen
McCabe - Antipin
Falk - Franson
Gorges

Lehner
Nilsson

The Eichel - O'Reilly combo would be a strength on strength first line. Reinhart would get to man his own scoring line. It's the same idea as the Carrier-ROR-Okposo line from last year. The 3rd line is a traditional checking line. And the 4th line is the old FLG line with Bailey in place of Gionta. The bottom six would get roughly the same minutes at even strength.

Edler - Ristolainen would be an all-situations top pair. The 2nd and 3rd pairs would get roughly equal ice time at even strength, but opposite usage. The McCabe-Antipin pair would get heavy O-Zone starts, while the Falk-Franson pair would eat the tough D-Zone starts.

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05-20-2017, 06:13 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by Krieger Bot View Post
Alright, here's my attempt at an offseason plan:

1) Sign Antipin

2) Before the expansion draft, deal Kane and Baptiste to Vancouver for Edler

3) At the expansion draft, protect: O'Reilly, Okposo, Girgensons, Foligno, Larsson, Carrier, Moulson, Ristolainen, McCabe, Falk, & Lehner.

Expose: Ennis, Deslauriers, Bogosian, Gorges, & Ullmark

I think Vegas balks at Ennis and Bogosian's contracts and takes Ullmark.

4) After expansion, extend Franson (2 years, 3 million/year) and Nilsson (2 years, 1.5 million/year)

5) At the draft, trade Bogosian and a 5th to New Jersey for Ryan Clowe, prospect Blake Speers, and a 3rd.

6) In free agency sign the following:

Brian Boyle (3 years, 2.5 million/year)
Drew Stafford (2 years, 3 million/year)
Daniel Winnik (2 years, 2.5 million/year)


Final roster:

Eichel - O'Reilly - Stafford
Carrier - Reinhart - Okposo
Winnik - Boyle - Moulson
Foligno - Larsson - Bailey
Girgensons, Ennis

Edler - Ristolainen
McCabe - Antipin
Falk - Franson
Gorges

Lehner
Nilsson

The Eichel - O'Reilly combo would be a strength on strength first line. Reinhart would get to man his own scoring line. It's the same idea as the Carrier-ROR-Okposo line from last year. The 3rd line is a traditional checking line. And the 4th line is the old FLG line with Bailey in place of Gionta. The bottom six would get roughly the same minutes at even strength.

Edler - Ristolainen would be an all-situations top pair. The 2nd and 3rd pairs would get roughly equal ice time at even strength, but opposite usage. The McCabe-Antipin pair would get heavy O-Zone starts, while the Falk-Franson pair would eat the tough D-Zone starts.
Falk is expected to be a top 6 starter in your lineup. I can't get behind that.

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05-20-2017, 08:13 PM
  #400
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What happens with Kane will give another glimpse of who's really running the show: if he's dealt for great return (i.e the likes of Fowler, Vaatanen, Brodin, etc.), I'll feel comfortable that Botteril is really in charge. If Kane is dumped for an average return, it will tell me that Pegulas just wanted to rid themselves of the stigma from his reputation at any cost and that Botteril is just a 'yes-man' they brought in. Similarly, what happens with Tocchet may tell a comparable tale.

Kane's been incident-free since last summer. Common sense would say that if he's not extended, Kane will probably have a big year next season going into free agency like many players do - and if the Sabres are still determined to shed his personality and not keep him long-term, they could really get a premium for him at next year's deadline.

If the Sabres deal Kane for a defenseman, they're going to need to replace his offense, speed and power-forward game shortly thereafter. Relying on Bailey, Baptiste, Nylander, Rodrigues, Fasching or Carrier to score 20+ seems more risky than holding onto Kane til the deadline.

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