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How to fix our center problem?

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Old
05-19-2017, 09:31 PM
  #426
sandviper
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Originally Posted by Strategize View Post
Damphousse probably isn't, that's true but Pierre Turgeon has 1327 points in 1294 career games despite him slowing down considerably in his last 5 years... If that's not franchise center stats, then what is?
I guess his time was so short in Montreal that I didn't think about his totals.

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05-19-2017, 11:27 PM
  #427
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Go get Stepan if Rangers want to move him. A Julien's perfect center.

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Old
05-20-2017, 12:05 AM
  #428
Habs Icing
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Isn't this how we've got into trouble in the past? Prioritizing "heart and soul" guys (i.e. Weber) instead of "skill" guys (i.e. Subban)? We brought in "hate to lose" Andrew Shaw, who's marginal at best. We brought in Steve Ott and Dwight King, playoff heart and soul guys, instead of actual talent at the trade deadline.

Worked well, didn't it?

You can't tell me Pacioretty wasn't trying in the playoffs. The guy took 28 shots, Hank somehow managed to stop them all. That Gallagher got one that found the back of the net doesn't convince me he somehow wanted it more, he's the better player, the more valuable player, or the guy you keep if you had to decide between the two. You'd think that all that heart and soul from Gallagher would have led to more than 11 goals in 70 games, no?

We have too many wingers and not enough centres. If you can get a reasonably talented similarly-aged center for Gallagher, you do it. At the very least you consider it, and don't use "heart and soul" as a reason to not do it.

Josh Gorges was a heart and soul guy too. He blocked shots with his face. Anyone think we should have kept him?
The only skill that Patches possesses is shooting and at times it's elite. His skating is very good but for only one or two shifts a game. Everything else about this player is subpar. The team could handle this if he bothered to show up for important games. But look at his playoff record and his stats for Olympics and World Cup. He merits his Casperity label. He's a ghost. How many players did Torts call out on Team USA? One. Patches.

Now there's a negative and positive side to Torts calling him out. The negative: He made it known to the hockey world that Patches was a no-show. The positive: for Torts to call him out that way, he must have had high expectations of that player. Hopefully there are still some GMs with the same expectations so we could trade him for that elusive #1 center.

As for Patches trying, you should have listened to Mitch Melnick today. Until today I thought he was a big fan of Patches but today he went on a rant about Patches being a no-show in important series. The rest of the crowd Nilan, Marinaro and co agreed with him. Mitch Gallo was the only one who put up a feeble fight.

There are players that are worth more to their teams than their trade value. Well Patches is the opposite. His trade value is higher than his play on the team.

I'm fed up with his lackluster play in important series. I want MB to use him (alone or in a package) to get a #1 center.


Last edited by Habs Icing: 05-20-2017 at 12:11 AM.
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Old
05-20-2017, 12:21 AM
  #429
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Move Gallgher ~ for RNH

Move Sergachev and some other stuff for Duchene.

These would be my two targets.

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Old
05-20-2017, 12:33 AM
  #430
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Well, that's exactly why Bergevin is not making those trades. When the price doesn't meet the value he won't deal.
Like the time Bergevin was competing against himself to land Shaw.

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05-20-2017, 12:38 AM
  #431
Belial
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Like the time Bergevin was competing against himself to land Shaw.
Dude, you're overrating draft picks and underrating Shaw.

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05-20-2017, 12:42 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
Dude, you're overrating draft picks and underrating Shaw.
You're underrating draft picks, overrating Shaw, and understating his godawful contract.

Let alone the fact Bergevin didn't even wait to see what would be available at his picks in the 2nd round before making the trade.

It would have cheaper for the team to sign Shaw to an offersheet in the off-season, assuming they wanted him that bad.

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05-20-2017, 01:00 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
Dude, you're overrating draft picks and underrating Shaw.
Dude, you're overrating Bergevin's negotiating abilities. Bergevin got fleeced in overpaying for Shaw and then shot himself in the foot by granting an albatross contract. Some negotiator.

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05-20-2017, 01:07 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
You're underrating draft picks, overrating Shaw, and understating his godawful contract.

Let alone the fact Bergevin didn't even wait to see what would be available at his picks in the 2nd round before making the trade.

It would have cheaper for the team to sign Shaw to an offersheet in the off-season, assuming they wanted him that bad.
So let me get this straight, you want to trade Sergachev because you think he will not be good enough for 5 more years and this team has to win now but you complain about those 2 picks because you think in 5 years they could translate into something...

So which is it? Because the Shaw deal was made to help us in the present.

We got a player that can help this team win now, I don't care if those pick amount to anything in 5 years.

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Old
05-20-2017, 01:09 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
So let me get this straight, you want to trade Sergachev because you think he will not be good enough for 5 more years and this team has to win now but you complain about those 2 picks because you think in 5 years they could translate into something...

So which is it? Because the Shaw deal was made to help us in the present.

We got a player that can help this team win now, I don't care if those pick amount to anything in 5 years.
Shaw doesn't help us do ****.

I don't mind trading picks. I never complained about the Vanek trade, or the Petry trade.

The Shaw trade, on the other hand, was stupid and a complete waste of assets from day 1, and it only got worse after he got signed to a boat anchor of a deal.

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05-20-2017, 01:31 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Dude, you're overrating Bergevin's negotiating abilities. Bergevin got fleeced in overpaying for Shaw and then shot himself in the foot by granting an albatross contract. Some negotiator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Shaw doesn't help us do ****.

I don't mind trading picks. I never complained about the Vanek trade, or the Petry trade.

The Shaw trade, on the other hand, was stupid and a complete waste of assets from day 1, and it only got worse after he got signed to a boat anchor of a deal.
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I think he's a fine player that will be useful going forward.

He was playing some great hockey before that POS Krug hit him.

12 points in 15 GP before that hit.

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Old
05-20-2017, 01:39 AM
  #437
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There is not many available unless we are willing to overpay a bit, but the lack assets will create to more holes than we already have right now.

I wouldnt go for a UFA as we will have to overpay on money and terms and it lack quality this year at the center position.

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Old
05-20-2017, 01:46 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I think he's a fine player that will be useful going forward.

He was playing some great hockey before that POS Krug hit him.

12 points in 15 GP before that hit.
Good teams can't afford to pay guys like Shaw 4M a year.

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Old
05-20-2017, 05:16 AM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I think he's a fine player that will be useful going forward.

He was playing some great hockey before that POS Krug hit him.

12 points in 15 GP before that hit.
We better hope big bad Torey Krug doesn't come knocking again, otherwise we might lose the services of our 5'10 badass playoff warrior.

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Old
05-20-2017, 08:49 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I think he's a fine player that will be useful going forward.

He was playing some great hockey before that POS Krug hit him.

12 points in 15 GP before that hit.
That's almost half of his entire season production in a 15 game span.

That's called a hot streak. You know the thing Eller would do and people would think was totally going to turn into his regular production and never did?

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05-20-2017, 10:23 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Move Gallgher ~ for RNH

Move Sergachev and some other stuff for Duchene.

These would be my two targets.
I'm not totally sold on RNH, but I can see it working. Just need to figure out the cap issue.
RNH and Duchene are 6M each.
I'd prefer to get Duchene and have Chucky play 2C, but I have a feeling that Galchenyuk has checked out after the way he's been treated. Most likely needs a change of scenery.

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Old
05-20-2017, 10:29 AM
  #442
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Duchene is the most realistic option...Pretty sure we're gonna see a Galchenyuk + something for Duchene!

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05-20-2017, 10:33 AM
  #443
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I have 0 confidence in this core to have the ability to win the cup.

You want a 1st line center? Trade Price to Colorado for Nathan Mackinnon. The 0.5 SV% drop from Price to Lindgren is a smaller gap that what Mackinnon could do in our offense.

But then again, I'd also trade Weber to Edmonton and Pacioretty to NY Islanders. That's 2 teams that the need for their talents and the assets for us to start listening.

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Old
05-20-2017, 10:36 AM
  #444
JayKing
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Tanking.

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Old
05-20-2017, 10:37 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Pax Macioretty View Post
I have 0 confidence in this core to have the ability to win the cup.

You want a 1st line center? Trade Price to Colorado for Nathan Mackinnon. The 0.5 SV% drop from Price to Lindgren is a smaller gap that what Mackinnon could do in our offense.

But then again, I'd also trade Weber to Edmonton and Pacioretty to NY Islanders. That's 2 teams that the need for their talents and the assets for us to start listening.
No problem trading Price and Pacioretty... Weber is another story, unless we get another younger d stud like OEL...

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05-20-2017, 10:38 AM
  #446
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Tanking.
I.T.D.O.E.S.N.T.W.O.R.K.A.N.Y.M.O.R.E

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Old
05-20-2017, 10:45 AM
  #447
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Originally Posted by BatVader View Post
I'm not totally sold on RNH, but I can see it working. Just need to figure out the cap issue.
RNH and Duchene are 6M each.
I'd prefer to get Duchene and have Chucky play 2C, but I have a feeling that Galchenyuk has checked out after the way he's been treated. Most likely needs a change of scenery.
If the Habs trade for Duchene and lose Galchenyuk, at best it's a wash and we're still lacking for a centre. It's also quite likely that Bergevin will pay more for one than he gets for the other. The team isn't any better for this.

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Old
05-20-2017, 10:45 AM
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax Macioretty View Post
I have 0 confidence in this core to have the ability to win the cup.

You want a 1st line center? Trade Price to Colorado for Nathan Mackinnon. The 0.5 SV% drop from Price to Lindgren is a smaller gap that what Mackinnon could do in our offense.

But then again, I'd also trade Weber to Edmonton and Pacioretty to NY Islanders. That's 2 teams that the need for their talents and the assets for us to start listening.
...... I think you're underestimating what a .500 drop would be to a .940 save percentage. If you mean .05% drop, you still don't have a very good idea of how big of an impact that would have.


Last edited by Draft: 05-20-2017 at 11:05 AM.
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Old
05-20-2017, 10:56 AM
  #449
BatVader
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
If the Habs trade for Duchene and lose Galchenyuk, at best it's a wash and we're still lacking for a centre. It's also quite likely that Bergevin will pay more for one than he gets for the other. The team isn't any better for this.
Agreed, but while I hope Chucky could turn it around if given the chance, I fear he can't or won't.
The problem is that they won't just give him the chance at C. Slot him in as 2C and leave him there. If he has troubles, leave him there and let him work through it. Stop shuffling him all over the lineup.
This is the biggest damage Therrien did during his tenure, and it appears Julien is continuing the trend.
Stop shuffling.
Slot players in and let then build chemistry and deal with issues.
Obviously sometimes things need to happen, but the best teams have set lines, not roulette style ones.

As for trading Price.
He has 1 yr left on his contract!
If he was signed long term at a resonable hit, then his value is huge, but as is..... you all might want to re-evaluate your trade proposals!


Last edited by BatVader: 05-20-2017 at 11:06 AM.
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Old
05-20-2017, 11:20 AM
  #450
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Duchene is the most realistic option...Pretty sure we're gonna see a Galchenyuk + something for Duchene!
That wouldn't help us at all. In fact it would probably make the team worse. Team needs to ADD offense, not do lateral moves.

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