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The Bronze Year for Russia - good or bad

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Old
05-22-2017, 09:32 AM
  #1
ViD
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The Bronze Year for Russia - good or bad

First of all, this is the first time since 2009 when we won medals in all three major international events (senior, junior, u18), although this time all the medals are bronze.

The year began with the junior team winning the bronze by beating Sweden after losing to the future champions only in shootout.

Then in April we beat Canada for the bronze after losing the semi final to Finland in OT.

And now here's the senior bronze that preceded losing to Canada 2-4 with leading 2-0 after 40.

So, in all three tournaments we were very very close to reaching the finals, fell short, but kept the composure and got a medal.

Can we declare this year a success even though we had no gold medals ?

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05-22-2017, 11:45 AM
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The U18 team's result was a huge failure because it was supposed to be a stacked roster but Golubovich cut or did not invite many of the best players.

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05-22-2017, 02:27 PM
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Alessandro Seren Rosso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
First of all, this is the first time since 2009 when we won medals in all three major international events (senior, junior, u18), although this time all the medals are bronze.

The year began with the junior team winning the bronze by beating Sweden after losing to the future champions only in shootout.

Then in April we beat Canada for the bronze after losing the semi final to Finland in OT.

And now here's the senior bronze that preceded losing to Canada 2-4 with leading 2-0 after 40.

So, in all three tournaments we were very very close to reaching the finals, fell short, but kept the composure and got a medal.

Can we declare this year a success even though we had no gold medals ?
No, I don't think it was a success. We could well end up with three golds, but at least one should have be doable. Of course it wasn't a failure, we were one shot from a WC final with a likely gold medal, and also the kids lost at the OT, with the juniors at the SO.
But I think that in the end, with these rosters, it's not a success.

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05-24-2017, 02:55 AM
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It's not bad, not good, it is fine. U20 lost their semifinals in a shootout lottery, U18 - in overtime, on the other hand Russia NT had two meltdowns Vs. Canada. What I'm trying to say is that while the Bronze year is something we deserved, it doesn't look like Russian hockey in his current state has hit the ceiling, there is quite some room to get something more.

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05-24-2017, 10:04 AM
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At the WC, it was fun watching the team fly around and move the puck beautifully when they were in high gear. I didn't think they would be able to do it against Canada, but they did it beautifully for two periods. But mainly, I really liked having a full roster (70%) of young nobodies from the KHL who stunned a lot of people with the way they were able to play. Particularly Andronov, Khiselevich, Antipin, Gusev, and Telegin. To me, that is a really encouraging sign. I'm biased, but to me, Russia was the most fun and free-wheeling team to watch in the tournament. Its about time!

Now the dark side! Those nightmarish meltdowns in the 3rd period against Canada and Finland. That tells us that the most glaring weaknesses are still being largely ignored. Any coach with a pulse who has been declared medically alive knows the sure way to attack Russia and exploit their weakness - take advantage of their generous offer to carry the puck in without opposition and set up a cycle, and forecheck the entire team and bombard the net with shots. Works every time. And yet, I expect it will still be the Achilles heel next year.

At the WJC, the worst Russian team in a long time was very fortunate to win Bronze, thanks in large to timely and great plays by Guryanov.

At the U18, some good looking players who were very badly coached.

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05-24-2017, 10:46 AM
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Not a success at all. Maybe most years it would be, but I feel that we were one of the favorites for gold in all of these tournaments.

U20 was biggest disappointment to me. That was the most talented D corps we have had in maybe a decade. Best goalie in the tournament. Not the most talented forward group, but good enough. 3rd place is the bottom of expectations.

The WHC team looked like the best team in the tournament. Keep in mind, every team lost at least twice in this tournament. Our losses came at the wrong time.

The U18 team was probably the weakest relatively to competition. So a bronze by them probably met expectations.

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05-24-2017, 02:42 PM
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junior teams looked crappy and full of unskilled workers with no future. bureaucrats (and coaches) sacrifice creativity and talent for some success now. there's no progress without some changes here and there. tretyak and bragin are obvious examples. this strategy will bite the russian hockey in the ass eventually.
the senior team should be in the final at least. the canadian team was plain crappy and to lose to them in such a way is plain inexcusable.
it's all very bad with the worse times still ahead.

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05-24-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
Not a success at all. Maybe most years it would be, but I feel that we were one of the favorites for gold in all of these tournaments.

U20 was biggest disappointment to me. That was the most talented D corps we have had in maybe a decade. Best goalie in the tournament. Not the most talented forward group, but good enough. 3rd place is the bottom of expectations.

The WHC team looked like the best team in the tournament. Keep in mind, every team lost at least twice in this tournament. Our losses came at the wrong time.

The U18 team was probably the weakest relatively to competition. So a bronze by them probably met expectations.
Just to clarify, you are talking about the team that had Kudako as the second pairing D?

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05-24-2017, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
Not a success at all. Maybe most years it would be, but I feel that we were one of the favorites for gold in all of these tournaments.

U20 was biggest disappointment to me. That was the most talented D corps we have had in maybe a decade. Best goalie in the tournament. Not the most talented forward group, but good enough. 3rd place is the bottom of expectations.

The WHC team looked like the best team in the tournament. Keep in mind, every team lost at least twice in this tournament. Our losses came at the wrong time.

The U18 team was probably the weakest relatively to competition. So a bronze by them probably met expectations.
I really doubt it, we don't have to go back far to find better, the roster that featured Paigin, Gavrikov , Provorov which won silver was much better. Before there was a year with, Mironov, Tryamkin, Zadorov. There was also the corps with Nestorov, Yarullin, Pedan and another year with Orlov, Chudinov, Zaitsev. You can argue this might have been one of the worst D corps for a while but it is still too early in their careers to make such a claim.

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05-24-2017, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caser View Post
Just to clarify, you are talking about the team that had Kudako as the second pairing D?
And Sergachyov on bottom pair.

I'm talking about on paper. Rykov, Sergachyov, Zborovsky, Sidorov, Dronov, this unit should not have been a weakness.

They underachieved, plain and simple.

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05-25-2017, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
And Sergachyov on bottom pair.

I'm talking about on paper. Rykov, Sergachyov, Zborovsky, Sidorov, Dronov, this unit should not have been a weakness.

They underachieved, plain and simple.
Personally I think expecting more than a bronze with this Russian roster would be wishful thinking. One of the more underwhelming/ least interesting Russian rosters I've seen for a while.

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05-25-2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
Personally I think expecting more than a bronze with this Russian roster would be wishful thinking. One of the more underwhelming/ least interesting Russian rosters I've seen for a while.
I kind of disagree, but fine.

But regardless, this was a down year for everyone in that tournament.

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05-26-2017, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
junior teams looked crappy and full of unskilled workers with no future. bureaucrats (and coaches) sacrifice creativity and talent for some success now. there's no progress without some changes here and there. tretyak and bragin are obvious examples. this strategy will bite the russian hockey in the ass eventually.
the senior team should be in the final at least. the canadian team was plain crappy and to lose to them in such a way is plain inexcusable.
it's all very bad with the worse times still ahead.
I have to agree with most of what you say. Finding a way to lose the game against Canada was a disgrace, considering the fact that the only thing the Canadian team had going for it was the fear of the name Canada across their sweaters. It was a repeat of the loss to a very mediocre Finnish team in 2016. And then to pull the same act the next day in the 3rd period of the Bronze game was very frightening! It casts doubt as to whether there are any neurons transmitting in the brains of the coaching staff. Its like when the other team decides to attack, they are still and always helpless to defend.

Tretyak plays the venerable role of the aging former hockey great who shakes hands and smiles all over the World. But there are still "officials" throughout the system who are diverting the money that is needed to bridge the huge gap between Russia and Canada, the USA, Sweden and even Finland in rinks and resources. No investment in coaching or player development, which concedes that improvements will move only at a snail's pace. Its hard to deny that.

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05-27-2017, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
First of all, this is the first time since 2009 when we won medals in all three major international events (senior, junior, u18), although this time all the medals are bronze.

The year began with the junior team winning the bronze by beating Sweden after losing to the future champions only in shootout.

Then in April we beat Canada for the bronze after losing the semi final to Finland in OT.

And now here's the senior bronze that preceded losing to Canada 2-4 with leading 2-0 after 40.

So, in all three tournaments we were very very close to reaching the finals, fell short, but kept the composure and got a medal.

Can we declare this year a success even though we had no gold medals ?
One of tge worst years in my memory. What do I do with all that bronze?

On junior level those were expected results, but of different origin. U20 was a bad birth year. It was known. U18 was a lousy coach. It was known. WC ended just according to my prediction after the roster anouncement by the man we have to endure through 2018 as head coach.

Hockey starts again in 2019 to me... or not if they don't change a lot.

I am oficially done with Znarok. And I am officially done with all the boneheads declaring 3rd places successes for russian hockey.

We have the players. We would have much more by now if they wouldn't run to NA. What we need is a coach with some freedom to decide on the rosters in big tournaments AND using young talent more AND ffs able to coach a NT in all the different tournaments, games and game situations.

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05-27-2017, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
junior teams looked crappy and full of unskilled workers with no future. bureaucrats (and coaches) sacrifice creativity and talent for some success now. there's no progress without some changes here and there. tretyak and bragin are obvious examples. this strategy will bite the russian hockey in the ass eventually.
the senior team should be in the final at least. the canadian team was plain crappy and to lose to them in such a way is plain inexcusable.
it's all very bad with the worse times still ahead.
You put Bragin and Tretiak in a sentence

You obviously have no idea about Bragin's coaching.


Last edited by Caser: 05-27-2017 at 02:28 AM. Reason: no need for that
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Old
05-27-2017, 05:08 AM
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Alessandro Seren Rosso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
junior teams looked crappy and full of unskilled workers with no future. bureaucrats (and coaches) sacrifice creativity and talent for some success now.
Those tournaments are two-week affair. It's true that Bragin's team play crap hockey, but I think that it's good to try and win these tournaments, players get a lot of experience and play against top players. A couple of weeks won't change much in player's development if they'll dump the puck a bit more than usual.

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05-27-2017, 06:50 PM
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Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
Personally I think expecting more than a bronze with this Russian roster would be wishful thinking. One of the more underwhelming/ least interesting Russian rosters I've seen for a while.
The United States was good, but not dominant. The rest of the teams in the tournament were crap, and Russia played even up with the USA.

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