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Old
03-26-2008, 02:47 PM
  #1
CronoX
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Goaltending

I don't follow Nashville hockey too much, but I was wondering whats the situation with the goaltending? I remember that when they let Vokoun go, they had high hopes for Mason this season. I know he's been on a roller coaster this season, but what's up with Ellis & Rinne? Which of the two "prospects" do you think will turn out better? Who do you all think will be the #1 next season?

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03-26-2008, 03:14 PM
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Its really tough to say. Mason is signed for 2 more years, Ellis is a free agent, and Rinne is on a one way contract next year. There are many things that could happen. Except for a few games, Ellis has been phenomenal, while Mason has been consistently bad almost all year. Rinne is having a great year in the A and will be in the NHL next season.

It is really impossible to say who will be the starter next year. Could easily be any of the 3 or some other goalie via trade or free agency.

IMO, I think Mason will get another shot at the starter position next year with Rinne backing him up, even though I'd LIKE to see us go after a more stable, proven goalie with Ellis backing him up.

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03-26-2008, 03:26 PM
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Rinne will be the better goalie in the future. Ellis is at present. Ellis will be our starter next season with Rinne backing him up and they will flip-flop by the end of the season when Rinne has solidly established himself at the NHL level. Mason is done in Nashville.

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03-26-2008, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Rinne will be the better goalie in the future. Ellis is at present. Ellis will be our starter next season with Rinne backing him up and they will flip-flop by the end of the season when Rinne has solidly established himself at the NHL level. Mason is done in Nashville.
that's how I read the Rinne call up as well

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03-26-2008, 04:24 PM
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But the thing with Mason is, are we going to offload him to another team? Who is willing to take on a guy who just had a bad season with a high contract like he has? Sure we could assume that we would take on some salary in such a deal, but who would want such a high priced backup? How much is Ellis going to command after having a decent year like he has?

We know that Rinne is going to be on the roster next year. Mason is signed for two more years at $3 million. Ellis is a UFA. I think that points to Mason and Rinne duking it out here while Ellis signs elsewhere.

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03-26-2008, 05:54 PM
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3M is not a "big" contract, Vokoun's was for 6M right?

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03-26-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
3M is not a "big" contract, Vokoun's was for 6M right?
Yeah, I get sick of hearing(not just here) that we can't get rid of Mason because of his salary.

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03-26-2008, 08:16 PM
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I don't think Ellis can be a true starter if he can't solve his weight loss issues. You can't play 60+ games while losing 13 lbs and getting an IV (or even consistently losing 8 lbs and gaining 7 back).

Pekka Rhinne is the goalie of the future and splitting time with Ellis or a recovered Mason could be the safest transition.

However, this season proved how lucky we got in starting the year with an unproven starter and an unproven backup. Having Ellis come in and play well (partly) saved our bacon. The problem is that we are headed to some version of the same scenario next year with an unproven starter (Mason or Ellis) and an unproven backup (Rhinne). Not good.

Given that choice, I tend to think Mason is done here. I really like him but I think he has a ruined mental state. He will be traded for some 3rd line forward that had a lousy season with an equally overpriced ($3M) contract and some hope of recovery or will be packaged with Kevin Klien for a 3rd round pick. [Edit: I agree with posts above that trading Mason isn't hard. Do you think we can do better than these proposals in that trade. I'd love it if we could but I'm not that optimistic]

Then, Ellis and Rhinne split time and we hope Rhinne establishes himself as a true #1 goalie.

As an aside, I found it disturbing that Mitch Korn described Mason as snakebit the other day saying the three inch puck was finding its way through 2 inch gaps on him. Then I concluded that Korn is either posturing to help pawn him off on some eternal optimist or trying to salvage Mason's mental state because the truth, unfortunately, is much much different. Sorry but I don't believe Mason's johnson is big enough to make his yawning 5 hole a mere 2 inch gap and the wrap arounds that consistently beat him are finding plenty of open net.

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03-26-2008, 08:23 PM
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I would agree with you bd on Mason's five hole and the wrap arounds. They are two different issues though.

The wrap arounds are simply because Mason isn't fast enough to get from post to post in time. His lateral movement is horrid all around. Were as the five hole while being somewhat a speed issue is more because of mechanics.

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03-26-2008, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Pekka Rhinne
[RANT] Sorry, don't mean to be a messageboard or spelling Nazi, but...THERE IS NO "H" IN "RINNE".

I've seen that far too many times for my liking and simply for the health of my computer and my mental sanity, I politely ask everyone to stop adding an extra letter to his name! It's not that hard!!! Is it??? [/RANT]

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03-26-2008, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
[RANT] Sorry, don't mean to be a messageboard or spelling Nazi, but...THERE IS NO "H" IN "RINNE".

I've seen that far too many times for my liking and simply for the health of my computer and my mental sanity, I politely ask everyone to stop adding an extra letter to his name! It's not that hard!!! Is it??? [/RANT]
what? i thought it was rhight...was it whrong?

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03-26-2008, 09:21 PM
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what? i thought it was rhight...was it whrong?
sorry man ... but I've just got to


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Old
03-26-2008, 09:32 PM
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If Mason is the answer, the question is not 'who can be your starting goaltender if you want consistent play'.

We simply have to find a way to deal him, or relegate him to the role of backup. Yes, it is tough mentally to take that step back. But the guy is supposed to be a professional athlete. This year's performance proves he cannot be a #1 goalie in the NHL. The gamble on a contract for him was a mistake. Poile should acknowledge this. If you look at the NP roster, we are going to be on the floor of the salary range this year. Even if we sign our RFAs we will be near the bottom anyway. Pro sports teams end up eating a bad contract occasionally (see Jones, Pacman), I suspect this may happen with Mason. Nashville has juts been very careful and lucky they hav not had this happen to them very much yet.

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03-26-2008, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
[RANT] Sorry, don't mean to be a messageboard or spelling Nazi, but...THERE IS NO "H" IN "RINNE".

I've seen that far too many times for my liking and simply for the health of my computer and my mental sanity, I politely ask everyone to stop adding an extra letter to his name! It's not that hard!!! Is it??? [/RANT]
braindead =

Pick a response:

1. Fair enough although Thomas Jefferson said its a boring mind that can only think of one way to spell a word. Or was it Tomas Jefferson? I can't recall.

2. You would think that with a name like braindead I'd get a pass on spelling.

3. I couldn't even spell Vocoun/Vokoun/Vockoun correctly after 7 years....

4. We finally get Mason and Ellis as our goalies-- one can't stop a shot and one melts faster than Frosty/Frostie-- this isn't fair.

5. Let him win a game for us this season- THEN I'll spell his name correctly.

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03-26-2008, 10:48 PM
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All you have to do is look around the league...

Huet - 2nd rounder
Bryzgalov - waived and claimed (Burke is odd)
Aubin - 7th rounder
Cloutier - cleared waivers, twice

Although different situations, Mason is comparable to Cloutier at this point. He would clear waivers. Our only hope is if we package him with a nice player.

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03-26-2008, 10:59 PM
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Pekka is pretty much awesome, its going to suck when he leaves Milwaukee for us Ads fans, but thats the purpose of the AHL so, yea.

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03-26-2008, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
I would agree with you bd on Mason's five hole and the wrap arounds. They are two different issues though.

The wrap arounds are simply because Mason isn't fast enough to get from post to post in time. His lateral movement is horrid all around. Were as the five hole while being somewhat a speed issue is more because of mechanics.
Which raises several questions, hopefully someone could answer:

Why would Korn describe a mechanical issue as being snakebit? He's clearly treats goaltending as a science and I believe is excellent at it. He knows there is a problem, right?

What is the mechanical issue on the 5 hole? I'm far from an expert but it seems like he has a hitch in his motion to both drop to the ice and close the legs-- or to be more precise, it seems like he has divided the two into distinct steps, so he drops then closes whereas other goalies seem to be closing as they drop. It also seems like he doesn't get his lower legs (below the knees) positioned correctly so if the puck gets into there it often bounces around and through. Or is it just slow reaction time? Something else?

Was his lateral movement this bad last year? I understand it isn't world class but it wasn't obviously a problem on a consistent basis.

Any insights appreciated.

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03-27-2008, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
Although different situations, Mason is comparable to Cloutier at this point. He would clear waivers. Our only hope is if we package him with a nice player.
I really do not see us paying Mason $3 million to play in Milwaukee.

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03-27-2008, 09:08 AM
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I'm not too sure about the 5 hole issues. . .but the wrap arounds goals seem to be an easy fix. I don't think it is an issue of lateral movement. I think it is a combination of our defense letting people skate behind the net and then walk out in front and Mason not trying to disrupt the stick handling by trying to poke check. I think this is a deadly combination because it provides the offensive player what offensive players covet: time and space. Those wrap around attempts need to meet some disruption by the defense or the goalie.

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Old
03-27-2008, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
Yeah, I get sick of hearing(not just here) that we can't get rid of Mason because of his salary.
It's pretty much the same salary as Dan Cloutier and Marc Denis, both of whom have cleared waivers AND re-entry waivers.

Vokoun is a different level of goaltender (which I would consider a borderline Vezina goalie), one that teams are willing to pay a premium for.

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03-27-2008, 01:26 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
It's pretty much the same salary as Dan Cloutier and Marc Denis, both of whom have cleared waivers AND re-entry waivers.

Vokoun is a different level of goaltender (which I would consider a borderline Vezina goalie), one that teams are willing to pay a premium for.
which was never able to either 1) stay healthy for a full season or 2) steal us a playoff series ... I don't consider that a Vezina level goalie

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03-27-2008, 01:51 PM
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I really do not see us paying Mason $3 million to play in Milwaukee.
Agreed. I could see us paying 1.5 million to play for another team IF we really were sold on dumbing him. 1.5 million is better than 0 million...

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03-27-2008, 03:55 PM
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I really do not see us paying Mason $3 million to play in Milwaukee.
Neither do i, but we may not have a choice. I also really don't see Poile buying out a new contract, but I guess there's a first for everything.

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03-27-2008, 04:03 PM
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I see Mason wearing a different jersey one day.

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03-27-2008, 04:58 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Which raises several questions, hopefully someone could answer:

Why would Korn describe a mechanical issue as being snakebit? He's clearly treats goaltending as a science and I believe is excellent at it. He knows there is a problem, right?

What is the mechanical issue on the 5 hole? I'm far from an expert but it seems like he has a hitch in his motion to both drop to the ice and close the legs-- or to be more precise, it seems like he has divided the two into distinct steps, so he drops then closes whereas other goalies seem to be closing as they drop. It also seems like he doesn't get his lower legs (below the knees) positioned correctly so if the puck gets into there it often bounces around and through. Or is it just slow reaction time? Something else?

Any insights appreciated.
mason's failings haven't been mechanical, they've been reaction time.. like many players that struggle, it becomes a confidence issue, and instead of reading and reacting, he's reading, thinking and then reacting, which results in that fatal half-second delay of butterflying or staying up as the shot is taken..

which is exactly why he's getting beaten 5 hole so often, because he's not completely in the butterfly as the shot gets there.. or conversely why he's getting beaten up high other times, because he's trying to think and goes down too quickly.. a vicious cycle of failure when you're a goalie, when you don't outwait the shooter and trust in your own reaction time, which mason isn't. instead the shooter is outwaiting mason and going high when he goes down too quickly and 5 hole when he stays up too long.

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