HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

Jyri Niemi the best WHL d-man for the 2008 draft?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-24-2008, 02:08 PM
  #1
FINNtastic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Finland
Posts: 571
vCash: 500
Jyri Niemi the best WHL d-man for the 2008 draft?

Probably not the best but at least I made you look... now please read the rest of it and comment.

Can someone tell me why Niemi is behind these other WHL d-men in the rankings? And I know that it's not all about stats...

Points scored in the WHL regular season:

Jyri Niemi Saskatoon 49 games 14 + 20 = 34 57pim -1
Luca Sbisa Lethbridge 62 games 6 + 27 = 33 63pim +19
Colby Robak Brandon 71 games 6 + 24 = 30 25pim -6
Luke Schenn Kelowna 57 games 7 + 21 = 28 100pim +5
Colten Teubert Regina 66 games 7 + 16 = 23 135pim -8
Tyler Myers Kelowna 65 games 6 + 13 = 19 97pim -16

Niemi is - 1 this season and in comparison teammate Teigan Zahn, D, is - 28. Zahn is also 2008 eligible (ranked 128th by CSB). For example Tyler Myers is -16 in a team which has scored 33 goals more than they have let in. Myers has by far the worst +/- stat in his team (Brandon McMillan is second with -5)! Jamie Benn is leading with +32. Also Colten Teubert has the worst +/- stat in Regina with -8. And Colby Robak has also one of the worst +/- stats in his team.

This was Niemiís first season in the smaller rink so I think heís still getting used to playing North American hockey. Same goes for Sbisa.

Niemi is big enough, heís the youngest, heís the best scorer of them all, he won the Hardest Shot competition at the CHL Home Hardware Top Prospects game with back to back 97 mile per hour shots, had one of the best +/- stats in his team, he played in the worst team out of these guys and it was his first season in WHL. So why are these guys ahead of him..?

NHL Central Scouting mid-term rankings (NA):
6. Tyler Myers, D, Kelowna (WHL)
7. Luke Schenn, D, Kelowna (WHL)
8. Colby Robak, D, Brandon (WHL)
18. Luca Sbisa, D, Lethbridge (WHL)
27. Colten Teubert, D, Regina (WHL)
29. Jyri Niemi, D, Saskatoon (WHL)

McKeen's:
2. Luke Schenn
12. Tyler Myers
18. Colten Teubert
28. Jyri Niemi

Size and Birthdate (youngest first...):
Jyri Niemi 6'3'' 190lbs 1990-06-15
Colby Robak 6'3'' 202lbs 1990-04-24
Colten Teubert 6'4'' 181lbs 1990-03-08
Tyler Myers 6'6'' 194lbs 1990-02-01
Luca Sbisa 6'1'' 176lbs 1990-01-30
Luke Schenn 6'3'' 209lbs 1989-11-02

FINNtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 02:25 PM
  #2
hawksfan50
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,842
vCash: 500
While it is true Myers has the worst +/- stat of this group of 2nd tier D-men who will all go only after the top ten in the draft,scouts look not only at who is best NOW but who projects best IF he develops--down the line..in that sense Niemi may be is more "advanced" now than Myers but there probably isn't a better upsdide than Myers has of any D-man in this draft bECAUSE he skates so amazingly well--you can't teach natural skating ability--combine that with his huge size 6'7 195 and just wait till he fills out that frame! Myers offensive game is just startin g to come around and it is the mental and recognition side of tyhe game that is the only question with him--if he learns his lessons well he'll get better defensively with experience and more games played as he learns to recognize situations better and learns better coverage/positioning...You can teach some tings but some things are natural gifts--like Myers' skating..Scouts are betting the other parts of hid game come around even if they are behind some of the other d-men prospects at this time.

He's simply a rawer talent and less developed than some others..But it doesn't mean he has less potential ..Many scouts think he's got a bigger upside than Niemi.. That is the "art" of scouting--you may be right or your hunch might never pan out...You can say a guy is better than anoyther today--but the real trick is to project out 5 years ...

hawksfan50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 02:28 PM
  #3
Round John
Registered User
 
Round John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 234
vCash: 500
i'd be curious to see how many of those draft eligible whl defensemen's points came on the power play and even strength. is it possible?

out of all the whl defensemen listed in FINNtastic's post i'd definately rate schenn as #1 in the whl. no if's and's or but's.

Round John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 03:20 PM
  #4
edd1e
Registered User
 
edd1e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,992
vCash: 500
I was wondering the same thing, is he really the worst of those 6?

edd1e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 03:23 PM
  #5
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FINNtastic View Post
Probably not the best but at least I made you look... now please read the rest of it and comment.

Can someone tell me why Niemi is behind these other WHL d-men in the rankings? And I know that it's not all about stats...
I'm most definately a Nyemi fan for a long time now especially after seeing 2 games of him and concentrating on him. Definately a 1st rounder in my mind or beginning of 2nd. Anything else will be a steal.

Tons of potential, a lot of growth. Needs work like most kids, defensively, but offensively and a real key to the powerplay, this kid will be gold in a short future.

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 03:51 PM
  #6
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Myers is a project but he's a guy who seems to get better, and more comfortable with his size the more you see him. Potentially, he has the skills to go down as one of the top five picks in the draft. I would categorize him as a moderate risk with a very high reward. At his peak he has a Chara type potential with better skating ability. Even if he's a bust he will atleast be a serviceable player in the Gill mode..

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 04:11 PM
  #7
Velociraptor
Nucks future 1C??
 
Velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maritimes
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,669
vCash: 500
Niemi is really good, but alot of those defenseman have been overlooked as Niemi hasn't. Niemi will most likely go late 1st early 2nd, but theres no denying that Schenn is the consensus best WHL defenseman.

Velociraptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 05:46 PM
  #8
Harry Kakalovich
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 879
vCash: 500
I think of those six, Niemi has probably the best shot, but is maybe the worst skater. I've watched him only a couple of times on TV, but it seems like his mobility is not so good, and that is what would worry me about Jyri Niemi. As an NHL team I'd be worried to take a guy like Niemi in the first round, because of his skating, which is why I see Niemi probably being taken in the 2nd round, similar to Josh Godfrey last year.

Harry Kakalovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 05:53 PM
  #9
Hiishawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Out there somewhere
Posts: 1,178
vCash: 500
Ditto for what Ryan Madden said above.

Hiishawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 07:33 PM
  #10
fong p88
Registered User
 
fong p88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I'm most definately a Nyemi fan for a long time now especially after seeing 2 games of him and concentrating on him. Definately a 1st rounder in my mind or beginning of 2nd. Anything else will be a steal.

Tons of potential, a lot of growth. Needs work like most kids, defensively, but offensively and a real key to the powerplay, this kid will be gold in a short future.
wow we must have seen him play at different times, I lived in Saskatoon for part of this year and saw him play in about 4 games(?) and from what I saw he would be lucky to be a fourth round pick. His skating is brutal I would say the worst on the team but I never saw Kevin Philip leave the bench so I can't compare them. He does have an amazing shot but with his skating I definitely wouldn't want him out on the ice even strength in the NHL. His shot will get him selected higher than he deserves to go but if he develops into a top 4 defender I will be shocked.

fong p88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2008, 07:34 PM
  #11
blinkman360
Back to Basics
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guido Central
Country: United States
Posts: 8,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Madden View Post
I think of those six, Niemi has probably the best shot, but is maybe the worst skater. I've watched him only a couple of times on TV, but it seems like his mobility is not so good, and that is what would worry me about Jyri Niemi. As an NHL team I'd be worried to take a guy like Niemi in the first round, because of his skating, which is why I see Niemi probably being taken in the 2nd round, similar to Josh Godfrey last year.
Good analysis and I hope you are right as far as him going in round 2. I am praying the Isles can grab Doughty in round 1, and if Niemi is there in round 2 we could give our defensive core a HUGE boost.

blinkman360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2008, 02:14 AM
  #12
Panopticon
Registered User
 
Panopticon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Helsinki
Country: Finland
Posts: 4,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fong p88 View Post
wow we must have seen him play at different times, I lived in Saskatoon for part of this year and saw him play in about 4 games(?) and from what I saw he would be lucky to be a fourth round pick. His skating is brutal I would say the worst on the team but I never saw Kevin Philip leave the bench so I can't compare them. He does have an amazing shot but with his skating I definitely wouldn't want him out on the ice even strength in the NHL. His shot will get him selected higher than he deserves to go but if he develops into a top 4 defender I will be shocked.

You know, skating is one of the easier things to correct in a young player. At least as long as you have people in your organization who know what they're doing (for example, Anaheim).

Panopticon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2008, 02:59 PM
  #13
hawksfan50
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,842
vCash: 500
Well here is the chicken vs. egg debate:

Skating can be corrected or improved on==perhaps -to an extent.. BUT a natural briliance in skating like Myers has is a divine gift that cannot be taught...that said you cAN TEACH better positional play,reads,when to go and when to stay back ...both teaching and playing experience can improve those aspects of defense i would argue to a far greater degree than any amount of teaching and time can improve skating...You can mould something raw like Myers--but your chances on converting a mutt into a greyhound are miniscule.. so maybe Niemi's skating improves a couple of nothces so he's a serviceable NHl D-man --but when you skate like myers does the upside potential is enormous because it is so rare in such a big tall guy--as he fills out this could be one very special package...Most people have looked onm Myers' potential mainly due to his size--but even if he were just 6'2 instead of 6'7 you see flashes of brilliance on certain rushes from that skating and it wows you...thus the unusual combo of size=greatskating is so so enticing...you feel you can coach him up to better defensive positioning and decision-making BUT 2 things you can't teach are SIZE + SKATING SPEED (with puck control)...so he may have more upsidetrhan anybody in this draft..He is less developed than others now --and it is always a risk as to whether he can improve to higher levels--but on upside he might turn out as the best of all from this draft..Scouts are not going to judge him where he is now-but where they think he will e 5 years down the line and beyond..

Are Doughty,Pietrangelo,Schenn and Bogosian all ahead of Myers in development NOW? of course they are--so there is less risk on them and they are ranked much higher..But none of them has his size/speed/skill package and potential if it all comes together...He is a riskier pick in case it never all comes together--but if it does with time,then look out--because he could be very special and better than all of them..

hawksfan50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2008, 04:02 PM
  #14
Joretus
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,313
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EroSennin View Post
You know, skating is one of the easier things to correct in a young player. At least as long as you have people in your organization who know what they're doing (for example, Anaheim).
Young yes, but when players are going close to 20 it's allmost too late. Well they can improve it, even quite a bit. But it's still very hard to make it very good.

Joretus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2008, 05:10 PM
  #15
Brock
Moderator
 
Brock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oakville
Posts: 9,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiishawk View Post
Ditto for what Ryan Madden said above.
Ditto for what Ryan and Hiishawk have said.

In the prospects game, he got exposed real bad on one play where he was being forced to skate backward and laterally to keep up with a rushing forward (I believe Boychuk). The forward ended up turning him out silly and scoring a goal.

It's only one game, but I think it's something teams could look at when evaluating him against his peers.

He's got a big shot, and appears to have good offensive instincts, but skating inefficiences, especially in defenseman, can really hurt draft standing. Eric Doyle was touted to be a 2nd round pick last year by a lot of scouting agencies, and he went undrafted. His main problem is skating. Reminds me of a guy like Mitch Maunu as well, who was originally supposed to go around the second round of the 2004 draft. He fell to the Hawks in the 4th and was never able to make it professionally (at least not yet) because of his skating. He's now in the CIS.

Skating is very important for forwards, but you can find the odd guy who can get by with marginal skating if he brings other intangibles. But to me, skating is critical for defenseman. I wouldn't touch a defenseman with questionable skating ability. But that's just my philosophy.

Brock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2008, 06:37 PM
  #16
Avery4Byng*
 
Avery4Byng*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ktown
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,751
vCash: 500
Just to add to Tyler Myers - He is a rangy 17 year old kid playing a shutdown role against the WHL's top lines. That would make for his not so impressive plus/minus. The kid skates like nobody's business and is slowly learning to use his size. Going to be itneresting to see how his development continues.

Avery4Byng* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2008, 11:38 AM
  #17
Round John
Registered User
 
Round John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 234
vCash: 500
niemi had 25 of his 34 points on the power play. 9 goals and 16 assists. impressive a 17 year old euro to be given that kind of responsibility so quickly. i would think the most important things for him to work on will be refining his shot for greater accuracy, and improving his movement in open ice when covering forwards on the rush.

Round John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 07:13 AM
  #18
bigv
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Czech republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 112
vCash: 500
Europeans

Quote:
Originally Posted by FINNtastic View Post
Probably not the best but at least I made you look... now please read the rest of it and comment.

Can someone tell me why Niemi is behind these other WHL d-men in the rankings? And I know that it's not all about stats...

Points scored in the WHL regular season:

Jyri Niemi Saskatoon 49 games 14 + 20 = 34 57pim -1
Luca Sbisa Lethbridge 62 games 6 + 27 = 33 63pim +19
Colby Robak Brandon 71 games 6 + 24 = 30 25pim -6
Luke Schenn Kelowna 57 games 7 + 21 = 28 100pim +5
Colten Teubert Regina 66 games 7 + 16 = 23 135pim -8
Tyler Myers Kelowna 65 games 6 + 13 = 19 97pim -16

Niemi is - 1 this season and in comparison teammate Teigan Zahn, D, is - 28. Zahn is also 2008 eligible (ranked 128th by CSB). For example Tyler Myers is -16 in a team which has scored 33 goals more than they have let in. Myers has by far the worst +/- stat in his team (Brandon McMillan is second with -5)! Jamie Benn is leading with +32. Also Colten Teubert has the worst +/- stat in Regina with -8. And Colby Robak has also one of the worst +/- stats in his team.

This was Niemiís first season in the smaller rink so I think heís still getting used to playing North American hockey. Same goes for Sbisa.

Niemi is big enough, heís the youngest, heís the best scorer of them all, he won the Hardest Shot competition at the CHL Home Hardware Top Prospects game with back to back 97 mile per hour shots, had one of the best +/- stats in his team, he played in the worst team out of these guys and it was his first season in WHL. So why are these guys ahead of him..?

NHL Central Scouting mid-term rankings (NA):
6. Tyler Myers, D, Kelowna (WHL)
7. Luke Schenn, D, Kelowna (WHL)
8. Colby Robak, D, Brandon (WHL)
18. Luca Sbisa, D, Lethbridge (WHL)
27. Colten Teubert, D, Regina (WHL)
29. Jyri Niemi, D, Saskatoon (WHL)

McKeen's:
2. Luke Schenn
12. Tyler Myers
18. Colten Teubert
28. Jyri Niemi

Size and Birthdate (youngest first...):
Jyri Niemi 6'3'' 190lbs 1990-06-15
Colby Robak 6'3'' 202lbs 1990-04-24
Colten Teubert 6'4'' 181lbs 1990-03-08
Tyler Myers 6'6'' 194lbs 1990-02-01
Luca Sbisa 6'1'' 176lbs 1990-01-30
Luke Schenn 6'3'' 209lbs 1989-11-02
Ok I wanna tell you something...Last year a player Juraj Valach played for Tri city Americans and had 30points in 58 games and he played WJCH in Sweden and he never been DRAFTED!!! This year he played for 3teams including Giants Pats Rebels and he was playing at high level all season long and he had 33 points and he is not going to be drafted again!!! Look I saw Niemi! He is a very good young player and much better than those other guys but he is EUROPEAN and they dont wanna us..........Is that true ???? Yankees and Maple ass Canada .........You guys are terrible ...haha good luck NHL

bigv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2008, 07:19 AM
  #19
Jimmi Jenkins
Always the Bards
 
Jimmi Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 38,550
vCash: 612
???

Luke Schenn? Maybe?

Jimmi Jenkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.