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Will hockey ever return to Houston?

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06-06-2017, 03:07 PM
  #76
KevFu
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
how is Dallas going to be ticked off if they control the Austin market by virtue of the Texas Stars, and whether Dallas owns them or not, that affiliation isn't going anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Aeroforce View Post
Y
This is true. I have no doubt Houston would rally around a winning hockey team the way fans in Nashville are this year. But if it were an Austin team, I doubt it would register much more than a blip in Houston.

There are a lot of UT alums in Houston, but that wouldn't translate to them pulling for an Austin hockey team.

And there's no animosity between Houston and Austin whatsoever. Houston and Dallas is another story.

I alluded to it earlier, but I have sensed a bit of an inferiority complex with Houstonians when it comes to Dallas.

Since the MLB put the Rangers and Astros in the same division, that has become a heated rivalry both on the field and in the stands.

Couple of points:

If an NHL expansion team came to downtown Austin, it’s highly likely that the Texas Stars would have to pack-up and move. An NHL-AHL city might work in Toronto and Chicago, but probably not in Austin, Texas.

(Minor league teams typically have to relocate when major league teams come in: The AHL Pittsburgh Hornets and Buffalo Bisons folded when the Penguins and Sabres joined the NHL; The IHL Phoenix Roadrunners, Atlanta Knights, Minnesota Moose, Denver Grizzlies all moved when those cities got NHL teams in the 1990s).

There’s no animosity between Austin and Dallas… wouldn’t that start some?

And if there’s beef between Dallas & Austin over the new NHL team stealing a secondary market that the Stars were trying to cultivate, who’s Houston going to side with?

You’d have the Texas Stars homeless. You’d have the Austin Expansions needing an AHL affiliate. You’d have San Antonio with an affiliation agreement that expires without 2 to 4 years (because they always do).

If you get Austin into the NHL, they’d target Houston (or the Houston suburbs) for an AHL affiliate. And the Stars do what with their AHL team? Battle lines across the state.


I think it’d probably better for the NHL if you had the Houston Expansions and they signed on with San Antonio for an AHL affiliate, but whichever.

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06-06-2017, 03:11 PM
  #77
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Oh, one thing on the Rangers-Astros...

since the Astros joined the AL, attendance for the HOU-TEX games is DOWN. No doubt the rivalry has heated up, but it hasn't led to butts in seats. It was a bigger deal when each team made ONE appearance in town. But now that it's 19 games, the crowds aren't as big.

The rivalry is awesome though, the whole "Come and Take It" thing was hilarious.

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06-06-2017, 03:20 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Couple of points:

If an NHL expansion team came to downtown Austin, it’s highly likely that the Texas Stars would have to pack-up and move. An NHL-AHL city might work in Toronto and Chicago, but probably not in Austin, Texas.

(Minor league teams typically have to relocate when major league teams come in: The AHL Pittsburgh Hornets and Buffalo Bisons folded when the Penguins and Sabres joined the NHL; The IHL Phoenix Roadrunners, Atlanta Knights, Minnesota Moose, Denver Grizzlies all moved when those cities got NHL teams in the 1990s).

There’s no animosity between Austin and Dallas… wouldn’t that start some?

And if there’s beef between Dallas & Austin over the new NHL team stealing a secondary market that the Stars were trying to cultivate, who’s Houston going to side with?

You’d have the Texas Stars homeless. You’d have the Austin Expansions needing an AHL affiliate. You’d have San Antonio with an affiliation agreement that expires without 2 to 4 years (because they always do).

If you get Austin into the NHL, they’d target Houston (or the Houston suburbs) for an AHL affiliate. And the Stars do what with their AHL team? Battle lines across the state.


I think it’d probably better for the NHL if you had the Houston Expansions and they signed on with San Antonio for an AHL affiliate, but whichever.
false, who's the affiliate there in Austin, there, Kev, DALLAS, your post is a real hypothetical from there on out

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06-06-2017, 03:36 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
false, who's the affiliate there in Austin, there, Kev, DALLAS, your post is a real hypothetical from there on out
Wat? HUTCH, again, look, if an NHL team moving into a pre-existing AHL market displaces said team, the AHL can suck it up & will simply move to more agreeable & amenable locales. They do not, DALLAS DOES NOT have VETO RIGHTS over the NHL's choice of location if for example Austin was even on the radar. You argued the same pursuant to Houston at one time & Minnesota. Just not on Man.

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06-06-2017, 04:31 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
false, who's the affiliate there in Austin, there, Kev, DALLAS, your post is a real hypothetical from there on out
I don't understand your “false” and point(s).

Hypothetical* Owner with $500,000,000 applies for an NHL expansion team in Austin, Texas. This person has an arena deal in place (for downtown, near the University of Texas campus. Dual purpose with the UT athletics to replace the Erwin Center).

Say the bid gets 24+ votes among the 31 owners and Austin joins the NHL (they slide into the Central division, no realignment necessary).

What happens to the Texas Stars? They CAN keep playing in Cedar Park. Nothing stops them. But what are their season ticket holders going to do?

(You're in Maine, right? If you were a Portland Pirates STH in 2014 and the city built and NHL arena and you're in a division with the Montreal Canadiens and Boston Bruins, where's your money going? Pirates AHL hockey or NHL Expansion team hockey?)


The Dallas Stars own the Texas Stars. A new NHL team has stolen their market. Their choices are:

1. Move the AHL team elsewhere, probably within the state of Texas to grow the organization’s fan base in the state (or maybe in Oklahoma).

2. Not care about the marketing/fan development, move the team to their practice facility, and run the team solely from a developmental standpoint (like the Sharks).

3. Sell the team to be moved somewhere else and sign an affiliation deal with an AHL team outside of Cedar Park (this is what happened in the 1990s in Denver, Phoenix, Atlanta and Minnesota, when the IHL teams moved after the Avalanche, Coyotes, Thrashers and Wild showed up).

4. Keep the team in Cedar Park and “compete” for fans with the new Austin NHL team.


The smartest financial move would be (1): Move the Texas Stars to Houston or a suburb of Houston, putting your NHL organization in Dallas & Houston (the two huge cities) while the new Austin team can, at best, advertise in Houston and put their AHL team in San Antonio (when that PDC comes open).





* of course it's hypothetical! What else could it be when we're talking about the potential of something to occur in the future? effing time travel?

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06-06-2017, 04:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Wat? HUTCH, again, look, if an NHL team moving into a pre-existing AHL market displaces said team, the AHL can suck it up & will simply move to more agreeable & amenable locales. They do not, DALLAS DOES NOT have VETO RIGHTS over the NHL's choice of location if for example Austin was even on the radar. You argued the same pursuant to Houston at one time & Minnesota. Just not on Man.
Kev's point was settled or so I thought, K, so why is he pushing something that's not realistic, that's about as bad as outlandish trade proposals, and if you've ever been on the trade board, there's some doozies

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06-06-2017, 05:08 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Kev's point was settled or so I thought, K, so why is he pushing something that's not realistic, that's about as bad as outlandish trade proposals, and if you've ever been on the trade board, there's some doozies
Yeah, I dont bother with that Board, others here HUTCH as Id wind up being BANNED for life.... But here, no problem and Kevy makes solid points, astute student & professor of the game (incldg baseball); well thought out posts & deserving of respect. You can disagree all you want, refute, formidable foe my friend. Knows his stuff.

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06-07-2017, 06:02 PM
  #83
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I think we've gone off the rails a bit...

Houston vs Austin. Which would be better for the league (in the hypothetical that the league was choosing one or the other, period. No other city had owner/arena/lease in place).

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06-08-2017, 08:29 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
I don't understand your “false” and point(s).

Hypothetical* Owner with $500,000,000 applies for an NHL expansion team in Austin, Texas. This person has an arena deal in place (for downtown, near the University of Texas campus. Dual purpose with the UT athletics to replace the Erwin Center).

Say the bid gets 24+ votes among the 31 owners and Austin joins the NHL (they slide into the Central division, no realignment necessary).

What happens to the Texas Stars? They CAN keep playing in Cedar Park. Nothing stops them. But what are their season ticket holders going to do?

(You're in Maine, right? If you were a Portland Pirates STH in 2014 and the city built and NHL arena and you're in a division with the Montreal Canadiens and Boston Bruins, where's your money going? Pirates AHL hockey or NHL Expansion team hockey?)


The Dallas Stars own the Texas Stars. A new NHL team has stolen their market. Their choices are:

1. Move the AHL team elsewhere, probably within the state of Texas to grow the organization’s fan base in the state (or maybe in Oklahoma).

2. Not care about the marketing/fan development, move the team to their practice facility, and run the team solely from a developmental standpoint (like the Sharks).

3. Sell the team to be moved somewhere else and sign an affiliation deal with an AHL team outside of Cedar Park (this is what happened in the 1990s in Denver, Phoenix, Atlanta and Minnesota, when the IHL teams moved after the Avalanche, Coyotes, Thrashers and Wild showed up).

4. Keep the team in Cedar Park and “compete” for fans with the new Austin NHL team.


The smartest financial move would be (1): Move the Texas Stars to Houston or a suburb of Houston, putting your NHL organization in Dallas & Houston (the two huge cities) while the new Austin team can, at best, advertise in Houston and put their AHL team in San Antonio (when that PDC comes open).





* of course it's hypothetical! What else could it be when we're talking about the potential of something to occur in the future? effing time travel?
Off topic, but I assume this has been considered for the WHL teams in the Seattle metro, should the NHL bring a francise there?

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06-08-2017, 10:18 AM
  #85
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I think we've gone off the rails a bit...

Houston vs Austin. Which would be better for the league (in the hypothetical that the league was choosing one or the other, period. No other city had owner/arena/lease in place).
It's a good question. Clearly Houston is a huge market and has the most growth potential. Six and a half million people. 5th biggest MSA in the US. 10th largest TV market in the US. Obviously, lots of pro sports competition.

Austin would have to find a Nashville type of success somehow, but the team would certainly be in a unique position in the market. Also, going to San Jose rather than San Francisco or Oakland has paid off too and the demographics makeup in Austin is somewhat similar. The market is on the smallish size. It would be 26th out of 32 in terms of MSA. 31/32 in TV market.

Tough choice.

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06-08-2017, 10:29 AM
  #86
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It's a good question. Clearly Houston is a huge market and has the most growth potential. Six and a half million people. 5th biggest MSA in the US. 10th largest TV market in the US. Obviously, lots of pro sports competition.

Austin would have to find a Nashville type of success somehow, but the team would certainly be in a unique position in the market. Also, going to San Jose rather than San Francisco or Oakland has paid off too and the demographics makeup in Austin is somewhat similar. The market is on the smallish size. It would be 26th out of 32 in terms of MSA. 31/32 in TV market.

Tough choice.
not happening, and it's getting annoying, tbth.... there is no market for Houston whatsoever, as long as Alexander is the landlord in Harris County, it'll be nothing changing there.... Austin is already served by Dallas, and is not an open market, hypothetical or not, anyone trying to spin it as such.

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06-08-2017, 10:36 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
not happening, and it's getting annoying, tbth.... there is no market for Houston whatsoever, as long as Alexander is the landlord in Harris County, it'll be nothing changing there.... Austin is already served by Dallas, and is not an open market, hypothetical or not, anyone trying to spin it as such.
If you're annoyed by it, get out of this thread.

Austin is not in a territory controlled by Dallas. They're 200 miles apart. Slightly closer together than Charlotte and Atlanta. Austin is its own TV market.

I don't disagree that Alexander poses a huge issue in Houston. I also don't disagree that this entire thread is firmly in a realm beyond hypothetical. That doesn't mean it can't be discussed.

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06-10-2017, 09:26 AM
  #88
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Um... Two things,

1. This is about Houston, not Austin, and...
2. It's not just a team in the NHL; I'm referring to any level of hockey whatsoever that could, say, play in the suburbs of Houston.

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06-10-2017, 11:02 AM
  #89
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Um... Two things,

1. This is about Houston, not Austin, and...
2. It's not just a team in the NHL; I'm referring to any level of hockey whatsoever that could, say, play in the suburbs of Houston.
and there's nothing there even proposed, the last arena proposed was Richardson, Texas, and went nowhere.....

what suburb, affiliated with who, JD, IS THE OTHER QUESTION, then you throw the Spurs into that equation with San Antonio already existing....

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06-10-2017, 11:03 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
If you're annoyed by it, get out of this thread.

Austin is not in a territory controlled by Dallas. They're 200 miles apart. Slightly closer together than Charlotte and Atlanta. Austin is its own TV market.

I don't disagree that Alexander poses a huge issue in Houston. I also don't disagree that this entire thread is firmly in a realm beyond hypothetical. That doesn't mean it can't be discussed.
there is no discussion, it just goes nowhere, until something changes....

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06-10-2017, 12:07 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
Um... Two things,

1. This is about Houston, not Austin, and...
2. It's not just a team in the NHL; I'm referring to any level of hockey whatsoever that could, say, play in the suburbs of Houston.
Concerning Houston and a professional hockey team (at ANY level), there have been only 2 proposals for a hockey arena which could house a minor league hockey team since the Aeros packed their bags for Iowa. The first was in Montgomery County (30 miles north of downtown Houston) at a proposed theme park/sports complex called Grand Texas. The proposed arena would have had a capacity of 6,200, but, unfortunately, the theme park has somehow morphed into an RV Park and Go-Cart track. While the theme park is still proposed on the Grand Texas website, the hockey arena, as well as a minor league baseball stadium, are no longer part of the plan.

The 2nd proposal was for a 6,500 seat hockey arena in southeast Pasadena, Texas. The arena is to be part of a $357M sports and entertainment complex. Since the announcement was made in March 2016, no new news has surfaced.

Looks like Houston, and the Houston area, will be without hockey for a long time (at any level). You can forget the NHL ever coming here.

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06-10-2017, 02:05 PM
  #92
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there is no discussion, it just goes nowhere, until something changes....
There's been 4 pages of it.

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06-10-2017, 02:18 PM
  #93
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.... and until something solid~real surfaces Houston a non-starter, non-topic..... Closed.

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