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Luc Bourdon vs Marc Staal

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Old
03-22-2008, 12:19 PM
  #126
Nich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo2892 View Post
I'm a Canuck fan, but I'm not going to kid myself.

At this point, Staal is the better defenseman, no doubt.

But Bourdon has made some strong strides in his development. He's more mature, makes better decisions with the puck, and has a great skill-set. If the Canucks wasn't so stacked with defensemen there is no doubt in my mind that he would be seeing 15-20 minutes per game.

As terms of potential..I have to say that Bourdon will probably put up better numbers, and both will be a key part of their respective teams.
great post

and to clarify for the other poster, we said staal is NOT getting PP time.

and tuts and girardi are better than you are giving them credit for.

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Old
03-22-2008, 05:10 PM
  #127
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This argument's still going on???

Let's just wait 10 years and we'll be able to detemine who's better. How about that? Judging how good rookie defensemen are and will be is ridiculous. Defense is arguably the position that takes young players the longest to adjust in the NHL. Chris Pronger's first few seasons were crappy.

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Old
03-23-2008, 01:47 AM
  #128
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I think we know how much Brassballers has watched the Rangers (and Staal) by his statement that Girardi and Tyutin are 'ahl caliber defensemen.'

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Old
03-23-2008, 01:52 AM
  #129
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ya know...
ryan parent is a good young defenceman as well...
i realize this is about staal and bourdon but id say parent is up there as well

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Old
03-23-2008, 01:55 AM
  #130
Tim Calhoun
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Bourdon is better.

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Old
03-23-2008, 07:38 AM
  #131
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A player like Staal is huge for the Rangers. He looks like a young Rod Langway. I don't know if we'll ever get a lot of offense out of him--although there have been glimmers and he does move the puck up the ice well--but here is an antidote in the east for the Ovechkin's, Crosby's and Malkin's. At 20 years old he's handled the adjustment to playing defense in the NHL without a hitch. He has size, skating, strength and smarts--maybe not the total package as his offensive game lags but he is going to be an effective player for a long, long time barring injury anyway.

To comment on the rest of our defensive corps--they don't particularly stand out individually but they play well as a unit. As for the other 2 young guys--Tyutin and Girardi are both well rounded guys. They're good in their own end, play physical without taking penalties (Tyutin is a very hard hitter--has 199 hits last I checked with 41 pm, Girardi 153 hits with 14 pm) and both have some offensive ability--Girardi in his first full season 9 goals and 27 points so far.

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Old
03-23-2008, 03:30 PM
  #132
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Is this argument still going on? Seriously as a Canuck fan, it's obviously Staal right now. Bourdon has looked much better this year than this year, and you could use the "Canucks have a deeper defense, thus he has been given less of a shot in the NHL" argument, but realistically I severely doubt that if Bourdon was forced into a top-4 role for the Canucks this year he would be making the impact Staal has.

I don't think there is any argument that Bourdon has a higher skill set, but that doesn't always translate into the better player. The determining factors in this debate will be a) how Staal's offensive game develops and b) How clumsy Bourdon is in his own end. If they both fix that and live up to their defensive and offensive potential respectively, than it is really a toss up to which defenseman your team puts more value on. But for now Staal definitely has the edge and will for a few years while Bourdon tries to crack the 'Nucks top 4. But this debate can, and probably will, keep going on a year by year bases, but the answer will probably not be known until they start to hit their prime years from about 27-31

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Old
03-23-2008, 04:01 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I have watched every game Luc Bourdon has played this year and he still doesn't look like an NHL calibre defenseman. I would venture a guess he's still in Manitoba for the majority of next season.

Bourdon has all the physical tools to become a top 4 guy but he needs more experience and confidence in his abilities if he wants to stick with the Canucks. When you're gauging a players effectiveness you look at ice-time. Bourdon hasn't earned the trust of his coach, subsequently he doesn't see much ice and has found himself behind defensive stalwarts Mike Weaver and Nathan McIver on the Canucks depth-chart.

Luc has progressed throughout the year but at a very moderate clip. Marc Staal is unquestionably the better player today and will be down the road.
Nathan McIver? I don't know how you figure he's below the depth chart of McIver who's only played 14 games. And his average ice time for those 14 games is barely 10minutes. And that includes a 21 minute game. Bourdon is way ahead of McIver on the depth chart.

As for Weaver. He's only averaging 1 minute more a game than Bourdon over the entire season, and his ice time has diminish as Bourdon's progressed. In fact Weaver's averaging 9:88 over the last 10 games.

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Old
03-23-2008, 04:02 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo2892 View Post
I'm a Canuck fan, but I'm not going to kid myself.

At this point, Staal is the better defenseman, no doubt.

But Bourdon has made some strong strides in his development. He's more mature, makes better decisions with the puck, and has a great skill-set. If the Canucks wasn't so stacked with defensemen there is no doubt in my mind that he would be seeing 15-20 minutes per game.

As terms of potential..I have to say that Bourdon will probably put up better numbers, and both will be a key part of their respective teams.
That's what I've been trying to say all along. People (Ranger fans), aren't giving Bourdon the credit he deserves for his progression this year. And they do this while not watching a single game of his.

I said at the start that Staal is the better d-man at this point. I was simply commenting on someone comparing Bourdon as a "3" while Staal was a "10". Which merely inflects on that posters lack of any hockey knowledge.


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Old
03-23-2008, 04:49 PM
  #135
Drop the Sopel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
Nathan McIver? I don't know how you figure he's below the depth chart of McIver who's only played 14 games. And his average ice time for those 14 games is barely 10minutes. And that includes a 21 minute game. Bourdon is way ahead of McIver on the depth chart.

As for Weaver. He's only averaging 1 minute more a game than Bourdon over the entire season, and his ice time has diminish as Bourdon's progressed. In fact Weaver's averaging 9:88 over the last 10 games.
When you are in the press box in the most important games while guy's like Nathan McIver and Mike Weaver are in the line-up, you are in fact behind them on the depth chart.

Why do you think Luc Bourdon is a healthy scratch while these guy's are in the line-up? Luc Bourdon does not have the trust of his coaching staff.

Potentially Luc could become a star defender. The same could have been said about 10th overall pick Nolan Baumgartner a few seasons back. Until Luc proves he can handle the speed of the NHL game he's little more than a question mark with good upside.

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Old
03-23-2008, 09:04 PM
  #136
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Im going to have to say Luc Bourdon.
He's being doing well developing into a top pairing in the NHL soon.

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Old
03-24-2008, 12:05 AM
  #137
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[QUOTE=Drop the Sopel;13234532]
Why do you think Luc Bourdon is a healthy scratch while these guy's are in the line-up?/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with trust. When the Canucks played Edmonton AV wanted the tough guys to play and they won and he didn't want to fix what wasn't broken. Just like when Raymond got scratched for Cowan when he was putting up good offensive numbers. He just wanted a tougher lineup

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Old
03-24-2008, 09:09 PM
  #138
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Staal was just about the most NHL ready D I've had a chance to watch come out of the OHL in twenty years. I expected him to have the year he has. Leaving him in Junior for one last year was a great move by the Rangers and I hope other NHL teams take notice with all the great D prospects there are this year.

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Old
03-24-2008, 09:13 PM
  #139
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Luc Bourdon is extremely underrated around here. Not saying he's better than Staal, but I have been very impressed with him pretty much every time he has played in the NHL. Good offensively, and doesn't seem to shy away from physical play either. Defensively he still makes mistakes once in a while but he still has managed to be a plus hockey player this season.

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Old
03-29-2008, 02:15 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
When you are in the press box in the most important games while guy's like Nathan McIver and Mike Weaver are in the line-up, you are in fact behind them on the depth chart.

Why do you think Luc Bourdon is a healthy scratch while these guy's are in the line-up? Luc Bourdon does not have the trust of his coaching staff.

Potentially Luc could become a star defender. The same could have been said about 10th overall pick Nolan Baumgartner a few seasons back. Until Luc proves he can handle the speed of the NHL game he's little more than a question mark with good upside.
Don't know what exactly you mean by that. Bourdon's played more games in February and more games in March compared to McIver. The only reason they put McIver in against the Wild was because he can fight. The Wild have goons like Simon and Boogy.

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