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Sabres re-sign Linus Ullmark (2 years, $750,000 AAV)

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06-14-2017, 04:22 PM
  #76
SwissCheese77
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
If Ullmark doesn't get selected by Vegas, here is what I think the organizational depth chart in goal looks like:

NHL1 - Lehner
NHL2 - Ullmark

AHL1 - Vet UFA (Mike McKenna for example) or Petersen
AHL2 - Kasdorf

ECHL1 - Johansson
In an ideal situation, I'd like to see us sign both Petersen and a vet UFA and leave Kasdorf to back up Johansson in the ECHL. The vet would take the load off of Petersen as he adjusts to the pro game, and Petersen would eventually take over as the true #1 goalie. As an example, Utica did this perfectly with Richard Bachman and Thatcher Demko this year.

However, I don't expect Petersen to sign here which would throw a wrench in our plans.

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06-14-2017, 04:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Flip Johansson and Kasdorf. Kasdorf was perhaps the worst goalie in professional hockey last year.
They'd prioritize getting Johansson starts over the quality of the back-up in Rochester I'd think. He'd likely be in the ECHL much of the season.

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06-14-2017, 04:36 PM
  #78
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They'd prioritize getting Johansson starts over the quality of the back-up in Rochester I'd think. He'd likely be in the ECHL much of the season.
There's nothing to prevent them bringing in someone else to backup in Rochester, though. Kasdorf has done nothing to show that he's a capable professional goaltender.

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06-14-2017, 04:52 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Paxon View Post
They'd prioritize getting Johansson starts over the quality of the back-up in Rochester I'd think. He'd likely be in the ECHL much of the season.
Not sure I agree. But if Johansson is the ECHL starter they're bringing in two free agent goalies. Kasdorf's numbers are comically bad and he won't be getting AHL time.

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06-14-2017, 04:59 PM
  #80
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He's also a guy who they'll have to pay $750k to bury in the AHL, with no guarantee that he'll become an NHL goaltender. If they select Grubauer and someone like Pickard, what the hell do they need Ullmark for?

It's a little baffling to me the certainty of some people that Vegas wants to pay a $750k for an AHL goaltender with a sub-.910 career SV% in that league. I think Ullmark has more developing to do, and I'm hopeful that he'll improve, but that's a stiff price for Vegas to pay an AHL goaltender who may not even be a long-term NHL netminder.
I don't see them being a budget team. As I said I don't think we have anyone else worth taking. But we will see.

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06-14-2017, 05:03 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Not sure I agree. But if Johansson is the ECHL starter they're bringing in two free agent goalies. Kasdorf's numbers are comically bad and he won't be getting AHL time.
Well, they should just waive Kasdorf. Not sure if they will, though.

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06-14-2017, 07:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Flip Johansson and Kasdorf. Kasdorf was perhaps the worst goalie in professional hockey last year.
I thought Kasdorf had to agree to being sent to the ECHL.

Plus, JJ needs more games than he would get as a backup in Rochester to an AHL vet. I'd rather that JJ gets the games as Kasdorf is a lost cause it would appear.

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06-14-2017, 07:45 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I thought Kasdorf had to agree to being sent to the ECHL.

Plus, JJ needs more games than he would get as a backup in Rochester to an AHL vet. I'd rather that JJ gets the games as Kasdorf is a lost cause it would appear.
That doesn't matter. After the season he had, he's in no position to dictate where he plays. And I'm pretty sure he had to agree last season, too. I maintain that there's no way Kasdorf plays in Rochester unless he comes to camp a whole new goalie. I don't see the issue giving Johansson 25 games.

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06-15-2017, 07:07 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
That doesn't matter. After the season he had, he's in no position to dictate where he plays. And I'm pretty sure he had to agree last season, too. I maintain that there's no way Kasdorf plays in Rochester unless he comes to camp a whole new goalie. I don't see the issue giving Johansson 25 games.
JJ will develop faster with more games.

There is no good reason to have him ride the pine in his first year in NA.

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06-15-2017, 07:20 AM
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JJ will develop faster with more games.

There is no good reason to have him ride the pine in his first year in NA.
I think bringing him along slowly with a veteran goalie ahead of him is a perfectly acceptable strategy. Perhaps he plays well and takes over the starting job. He won't be the organizations 3rd goalie. I would think we all can agree on that, especially with Botterill preaching depth.

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06-15-2017, 08:14 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
I think bringing him along slowly with a veteran goalie ahead of him is a perfectly acceptable strategy. Perhaps he plays well and takes over the starting job. He won't be the organizations 3rd goalie. I would think we all can agree on that, especially with Botterill preaching depth.
I just don't see the point of giving him fewer games when there is an option to give him more games.

I don't see how that helps his development given that he's making the jump to NA.

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06-15-2017, 08:20 AM
  #87
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I just don't see the point of giving him fewer games when there is an option to give him more games.

I don't see how that helps his development given that he's making the jump to NA.
Are you saying you think he will be the starter in Rochester?

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06-15-2017, 08:52 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Are you saying you think he will be the starter in Rochester?
No, I'm saying that I expect there to be a UFA vet starter in Rochester.

So, the options for JJ are to backup in Roch or be the starter in Cincy.

I believe that the best thing for JJ's development is to play more games, not fewer. As such, having him as the starter in Cincy makes more sense than having him be the Amerks back up.

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06-15-2017, 08:58 AM
  #89
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I don't see them being a budget team. As I said I don't think we have anyone else worth taking. But we will see.
I also don't think they're trying to field the most expensive AHL team in the business. If Vegas is going to take on Ullmark, they're doing so because they believe he will be a productive NHL goaltender in their organization this year or next so that they're not paying a guy $1.5m to play in the AHL. But I'm fairly confident that Grubauer will be one of their goaltender selections, and the other will be either Fleury or Pickard. Ullmark would not be on Vegas' NHL roster this season under those scenarios, and with all of those guys under team control for next year, as well, Ullmark becomes a very expensive development project.

If he had simply signed his QO, I agree that Vegas probably takes him. If he hadn't yet signed any contract, Vegas probably takes him and then plays hardball with him to take the QO. In those scenarios, Ullmark is far cheaper and can develop in the AHL at a more palatable price point. But that didn't happen. It was a smart move by Botterill to sign Ullmark to this deal.

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06-15-2017, 09:01 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
No, I'm saying that I expect there to be a UFA vet starter in Rochester.

So, the options for JJ are to backup in Roch or be the starter in Cincy.

I believe that the best thing for JJ's development is to play more games, not fewer. As such, having him as the starter in Cincy makes more sense than having him be the Amerks back up.
We'll just agree to disagree. I think 30 games in the AHL is better for him than 50 in the ECHL.

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06-15-2017, 10:59 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
We'll just agree to disagree. I think 30 games in the AHL is better for him than 50 in the ECHL.
He isn't likely to get 30 games in the AHL unless there are injuries.

Everyone not named Linus got 24 games last year.

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06-15-2017, 11:02 AM
  #92
sabrefan27
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He isn't likely to get 30 games in the AHL unless there are injuries.

Everyone not named Linus got 24 games last year.
6 games different. Ok. Still think that, along with AHL coaching and practices, is better for his development.

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06-15-2017, 11:17 AM
  #93
Jim Bob
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
6 games different. Ok. Still think that, along with AHL coaching and practices, is better for his development.
Go back over history and it's more like 20 games at the AHL level versus 45+ at teh ECHL level.

I think building up the endurance to carry the load is important.

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06-15-2017, 12:27 PM
  #94
dotcommunism
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It's not like Johansson has to be locked into a role. He could spend part of the year starting in the ECHL and part of it backing up in Rochester.

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06-17-2017, 11:37 AM
  #95
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