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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

LD Rasmus Dahlin - Frolunda HC, SHL (2018 Draft)

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06-13-2017, 08:51 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Pavel Buchnevich View Post
Khovanov? I'm not sure, but you are right, always gotta be weary of Russian prospects who go to the CHL their draft year.
Some of the not so hyped ones do alright. Just have to keep expectations low.

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06-13-2017, 09:23 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Pavel Buchnevich View Post
Khovanov? I'm not sure, but you are right, always gotta be weary of Russian prospects who go to the CHL their draft year.
Small guys without elite skating is another group of player you should be wary about. It is very hard to be a high-end center in the NHL without either elite size/strength on the puck or high-end skating. That's why I personally prefer Wahlstrom, but I don't really like any of the centers in next years draft. Veleno probably has the most impressive toolkit, but he has the burden of heavy expectations.

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06-13-2017, 09:29 PM
  #703
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Small guys without elite skating is another group of player you should be wary about. It is very hard to be a high-end center in the NHL without either elite size/strength on the puck or high-end skating. That's why I personally prefer Wahlstrom, but I don't really like any of the centers in next years draft. Veleno probably has the most impressive toolkit, but he has the burden of heavy expectations.
I may be in the minority here but whenever I watched Veleno I see a very defensively sound player. He just always makes these great little defensive plays. I'm starting to wonder if he is more of a Bergeron type then a high end offensive guy. Obviously guys like that are still capable of putting up good offensive numbers.

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06-13-2017, 09:30 PM
  #704
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To the best of my knowledge, he is a left winger.

Unlikely in my opinion, very good prospect, but will probably be on the small side for a player people project as a number 1 franchise center. Strikes me as a guy who will end up viewed closer to Marner or Keller, and could be a candidate to be shifted to the wing as he moves up levels. I'd probably be more comfortable gambling on Kirby Dach if you want to talk 2019 guys.

A year ago people thought that Veleno and Wise would fall into this category, so projecting kids out of rep hockey will always be difficult. One could emerge, but there isn't really a front runner for that at the moment who projects as a Stamkos, Tavares, Matthews, Eichel tier center prospect. Next years draft should be interesting. The best center prospect might be Jack McBain, who currently play OJHL. Amazing class for D and Wingers though. Two elite number 1 level prospects in Dahlin and Svechnikov, plus a bunch of very good d prospects from USNTDP (Samulsson, Wilde and Hughes) and the CHL (MacIssac, Woo and Ty Smith), plus another high quality Swedish defensive prospect in Boqvist. While on the wings you have Farabee and Tkachuk out of the USNTDP and Zadina out of the Czech Republic.
I too noticed lack of centers heading into next year's draft. I think a few will get hyped up partially due to need (how I feel what's happened with D this year) so we'll see who it is. Seeing if Dahlin can hold his post all year will be interesting too.

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06-13-2017, 10:32 PM
  #705
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So the last time there was a highly hyped forward playing in the CHL and a young defensive phenom playing against men in the SHL, the team picking first opted for the forward ( Tavares over Hedman ). I'm wondering if the same thing will happen, though Svechnikov being a winger might change things. However it is still way to early to predict. Someone else will make a huge improvement in the summer and challenge. At this time last year not many thought Hischier had a chance to go number one.

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06-14-2017, 12:01 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by 93LEAFS View Post
Small guys without elite skating is another group of player you should be wary about. It is very hard to be a high-end center in the NHL without either elite size/strength on the puck or high-end skating. That's why I personally prefer Wahlstrom, but I don't really like any of the centers in next years draft. Veleno probably has the most impressive toolkit, but he has the burden of heavy expectations.
I've seen Khovanov listed at 5'10 and 5'11, so he's probably one of those two heights, maybe in-between. He could still grow to 6'0, and then no one would claim his size is an issue. 5'10 or 5'11 isn't really that much of an issue either.

He's also not a bad skater.
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06-14-2017, 12:36 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Pavel Buchnevich View Post
I've seen Khovanov listed at 5'10 and 5'11, so he's probably one of those two heights, maybe in-between. He could still grow to 6'0, and then no one would claim his size is an issue. 5'10 or 5'11 isn't really that much of an issue either.

He's also not a bad skater.
Never said it was bad, just that it isn't elite for his size and build which generally you need to make it as a smaller center in a 1st line role.

But, someone should probably start up a 2018 draft discussion or something, because this has little to do with Dahlin at this point. His only realistic challenger right now is Svechnitkov. Maybe a young center makes a massive jump, but pretty much everyone in the top 10 for next year depending on who you trust is either a defender or a winger. Veleno will be in some but his stock is a bit rocky right now.

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06-18-2017, 11:47 PM
  #708
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I honestly don't even doubt it.
The draft class for D-men next year looks pretty stellar actually and this year seems like a good year for goalies.

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06-19-2017, 01:02 AM
  #709
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Like someone said before, one cannot completely ignore the possibility of Dahlin falling in to the category or highly touted defense prospects who underwhelmed during the draft year. We've had quite a punch recently. Kylington, Chyhrun, Liljegren and so on.

However Dahlin is 6"2, has already built up some solid frame (weights 181lbs according to EP) and passes any eye-test without much of a beat. His footwork and hands seem to work in a harmony and you rarely see as high offensive skill in a such young D-man. Really hard to see this young man's stocks plummeting next year. Although even if by some odd happenstance he didn't develop as expected, Sweden wouldn't really have much worries what comes to blue line.

Dahlin looks as good as they come and if I had to pick between him and Svechnikov today, I would go with Dahlin without much of a thought. Some team is in for a real treat come 2018 draft. Fairly confident about that. All in all, this generation of players seems to be shaping up quite nicely.

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06-19-2017, 03:45 AM
  #710
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Like someone said before, one cannot completely ignore the possibility of Dahlin falling in to the category or highly touted defense prospects who underwhelmed during the draft year. We've had quite a punch recently. Kylington, Chyhrun, Liljegren and so on.

However Dahlin is 6"2, has already built up some solid frame (weights 181lbs according to EP) and passes any eye-test without much of a beat. His footwork and hands seem to work in a harmony and you rarely see as high offensive skill in a such young D-man. Really hard to see this young man's stocks plummeting next year. Although even if by some odd happenstance he didn't develop as expected, Sweden wouldn't really have much worries what comes to blue line.

Dahlin looks as good as they come and if I had to pick between him and Svechnikov today, I would go with Dahlin without much of a thought. Some team is in for a real treat come 2018 draft. Fairly confident about that. All in all, this generation of players seems to be shaping up quite nicely.
Yes him dropping off a cliff would be highly unexpected. I really believe he will prove himself to be one of the greatest talents swedish hockey has produced, and players of that calibre rarely falls during their draft year. To see a 16 year old defenseman play with the confidence and success he had in the SHL playoffs is something that's never seen before and if his skills keeps up with his growth in size he will be a nightmare to play against this coming season.

It always feels a bit risky with these D prospects regardless of current form one year away from the draft but I think he will be an unbelievable asset to the team that gets lucky enough to draft him

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06-19-2017, 05:16 AM
  #711
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Selected for the U20 summer camp in Plymouth. Would have much rather seen him play at the Ivan Hlinka tournament, maybe he will be on both rosters.


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06-19-2017, 06:34 AM
  #712
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I think its fair to say Kylington deserved to drop, but I think the Chychrun and Liljegren drops weren't deserved, so I'm not sure thats such a good example. They didn't have good seasons in their draft seasons, but you could say that about plenty of people the media didn't choose to focus on, and they didn't drop so much.

Dahlin might have a bad season, its possible, but that doesn't mean he should drop or drop much, if he does.

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06-19-2017, 07:18 AM
  #713
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Dahlin is a tier above Liljegren in terms of talent. Will be interesting to see where Liljegren ends up in this years draft. I will guarantee right here and now that Dahlin will go in the top 5 in 2018. Even if injuries derail his entire season. He will go top 2 if he avoids injuries.

Erik Karlsson had a great last season in Frolunda, when they went to the semis and he really showed a glimpse of the player he would become. That was when he was 19 so draft +1. Dahlin will be as good or better next season and I dare not even think what kind of monster he will be in his draft +1 season.

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06-19-2017, 08:52 AM
  #714
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Why on earth play a U20 practice tournament instead of Ivan Hlinka

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06-19-2017, 09:00 AM
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Why on earth play a U20 practice tournament instead of Ivan Hlinka
It will be fun to see him play against players that are similar age to him though. And this time he will probably get top minutes, not just play 5-6 minutes as in the WJC.

Anyone knows when this tournament will play? I can't seem to find any information on it.

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06-19-2017, 09:04 AM
  #716
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Why on earth play a U20 practice tournament instead of Ivan Hlinka
Agree, that's just plain stupid.

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06-19-2017, 09:06 AM
  #717
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It will be fun to see him play against players that are similar age to him though. And this time he will probably get top minutes, not just play 5-6 minutes as in the WJC.

Anyone knows when this tournament will play? I can't seem to find any information on it.
The U20 one? It's 29th of july to 5th of august

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06-19-2017, 09:09 AM
  #718
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It will be fun to see him play against players that are similar age to him though. And this time he will probably get top minutes, not just play 5-6 minutes as in the WJC.

Anyone knows when this tournament will play? I can't seem to find any information on it.
29 july - 5 august

http://www.swehockey.se/Nyheter/Nyhe...ndskamperiusa/


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06-19-2017, 09:28 AM
  #719
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Except they weren't, and at that point, it would be who dominated that era or was viewed as the better prospect. A generational player is significantly above their peers. Therefore, you can't really have multiple generational players, so it all depends on skill relative to their competition, which therefore has to factor in age and era. How is someone generational prospect, if they aren't the best prospect of their own era?
Well, it's debatable whether Eric Lindros would/should go first over Peter Forsberg if they went in the same draft. Flyers made the overpayment of history in that debacle of a trade. I think The Russian Rocket has a say in this as well. As far as Crosby goes, Malkin has been shadowing him his entire career and been the better player of the two in certain seasons. And debatably so has Ovy for a stretch of time. In any case, Crosby has not been significantly above his peers which would exclude him from any generational talk, as per your definition.

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06-19-2017, 09:35 AM
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Not a single list or Bob's sources or any scout is on record as having had Eichel above McDavid at the draft date, that isn't me being dishonest. That is simply how the draft was, and how it was covered. Tim Murray's face at the lotto showed the gap.

People can make it mean whatever they think it does, but if there are this many generational talents, then what the hell are we supposed to label guys who are clearly better than everyone around them in recent drafts. Uber-generational. Dahlin is an elite defensive prospect, and one of the best in the last decade, he's possibly better than Jones and Ekblad (the reigning top defensive prospects).
I think the word you are looking for is hype, not generational.

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06-19-2017, 09:44 AM
  #721
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Selected for the U20 summer camp in Plymouth. Would have much rather seen him play at the Ivan Hlinka tournament, maybe he will be on both rosters.
Edit: No, he's not going to the Hlinka.

https://www.hockeymagasinet.com/arti...ll-ivan-hlinka

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06-19-2017, 10:11 AM
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I think the word you are looking for is hype, not generational.
Hype generally follows being generational. Because it tends to be reflective of how the draft goes and the opinions of the industry. I highly doubt in a years time anyone will take Dahlin over McDavid in his draft year, and that is why I wouldn't define him as generational. I hold the same standard to Matthews, Laine, and Eichel.

Do you really expect Dahlin to win multiple Hart/Lindsay trophies? That was the expectation for McDavid when he was drafted, and looks to be happening. I think to be generational you have to be viewed as the best player in the league for an extended period of time, regardless of position. It's why the only people from the 2000 to 2010 generation with a legitimate argument for that status as a generational player is Crosby and Ovi.

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Well, it's debatable whether Eric Lindros would/should go first over Peter Forsberg if they went in the same draft. Flyers made the overpayment of history in that debacle of a trade. I think The Russian Rocket has a say in this as well. As far as Crosby goes, Malkin has been shadowing him his entire career and been the better player of the two in certain seasons. And debatably so has Ovy for a stretch of time. In any case, Crosby has not been significantly above his peers which would exclude him from any generational talk, as per your definition.
I'm talking about how they were viewed at the time of their draft in the case of Lindros. When talking about how someone was viewed as a prospect, you can't use retrospect. Especially when Lindros's career was derailed by injuries. Bure wasn't generational. The only player who played in the 90's who were was Gretzky and Mario. A case can be made for Jagr or Hasek.

Crosby has been better pretty much any season he has been healthy. He's been the best player of this generation, and if you were going to ask anyone if they could go back 10 years and take any player to build around, it would be pretty clearly Crosby. Also, Crosby easily would have gone above Ovi in 2004 if he was eligible.

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06-19-2017, 10:13 AM
  #723
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I've always split it into C, Winger, D and Goalie. There is, IMO, a "Generational Prospect" every 5 to 10 years or so in each category. Sometimes we have multiple candidates but only one can ever attain the title of "Generational Player" at their position. Price was bordering on a generational goalie, Karlsson for defencemen, Crosby for centers, Ovi for wingers. Now the tide is turning. McDavid is probably one more Ross finish away from claiming the title for centers. Laine made his mark as an 18 year old but a young speedy and very skilled Russian by the name of Andrei is coming up fast so it's going to be a competition between them. Meanwhile Karlsson stands alone right now but his biggest competition is Rasmus Dahlin. A kid who pulverizes adults with monstrous hits, is responsible and can be that transition defencemen that many crave already at such a young age playing against men. Karlsson was never considered a generational prospect. But if I've ever seen a defencemen that could be labeled as a generational defencemen prospect Dahlin is the kid. His game much like Crosby, or McDavid, or Ovi, or Lindros or Price is so well beyond his years. That's what makes a generational prospect is someone who is mature well beyond their years in the game that by the time they hit the NHL, they are already in a prime.
This definition of generational I like. But did Price really enter the league in a dominant fashion? It still took him a season or two to settle in, no?

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06-19-2017, 10:14 AM
  #724
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Hype generally follows being generational. Because it tends to be reflective of how the draft goes and the opinions of the industry. I highly doubt in a years time anyone will take Dahlin over McDavid in his draft year, and that is why I wouldn't define him as generational. I hold the same standard to Matthews, Laine, and Eichel.

Do you really expect Dahlin to win multiple Hart/Lindsay trophies? That was the expectation for McDavid when he was drafted, and looks to be happening. I think to be generational you have to be viewed as the best player in the league for an extended period of time, regardless of position. It's why the only people from the 2000 to 2010 generation with a legitimate argument for that status as a generational player is Crosby and Ovi.
Hype is hype. It seldom if ever is very accurate. But hype certainly helps in getting votes you normally never would. Or instances where there isn't a clear cut nr 1 the vote will fall to the one with the rep as generational.

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06-19-2017, 10:17 AM
  #725
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Hype is hype. It seldom if ever is very accurate. But hype certainly helps in getting votes you normally never would.
I'd say with 3 of the 4 prospects it proved to be quite true, with Mario, Sid and McDavid. Lindros was only derailed by injuries.

Do you honestly expect Dahlin to win multiple Harts or Lindsey's? If not, in my opinion, he isn't generational. McDavid and Crosby were expected to do that, and have either done it or are expected to.

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