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Devils trade 2nd and 4th rounders for Mirco Mueller and 5th rounder

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Old
06-19-2017, 10:25 AM
  #626
Brooklyndevil
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Shero probably tried to make a deal for a defensemen like Brodin or Vatanen, but the cost was to much. That's why he made this move. He's taking a gamble and he feels he could afford it. He can probably try again via Vegas, but who knows how many side deals they made not to take certain guys. Plus he probably figure he'll get another pick for Kovy. Maybe another 2nd.


Last edited by Brooklyndevil: 06-19-2017 at 12:31 PM.
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06-19-2017, 10:47 AM
  #627
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What moves my needle from "neutral" to "cautiously optimistic" is the probable (not confirmed by any means, but likely) Castron implications in this deal. The fact that he took Rychel at 14 in 2013, right after SJ took Mueller at 13, leads me to believe he is very well-informed on Mueller.

We've seen CBJ benefit from Castron's nose for talent, and that has earned my trust. Even if Mueller doesn't reach his ceiling with us, I'm somewhat confident that he'll be, at the very least, serviceable.

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06-19-2017, 10:47 AM
  #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
The biggest mystery in this thread is why people seem to think Merrill is some amazing NHL prospect.
it's never good to lose someone for nothing, unless it's addition by subtraction (i.e. lovejoy). that being said, we have to lose someone, so if itís merrill so be it. could be a lot worse

i dont think anyone on this board has said he is an "amazing NHL prospect"...so unless I'm mistaken about that, a statement like yours is the exact type of divisive comment that leads to the constant stream of circular, bull**** arguments around here. the truth is, he's a decent prospect that is worth a lot more to us than he is to other teams.

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06-19-2017, 10:53 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by CoryForVezina View Post
Trade looks pretty stupid if Merrill gets selected by Vegas.

That would be Merrill, 2nd round pick, 4th for Muller and a 5th.

I'm not even a Merrill fan, but if they made that trade without being fairly certain Vegas isn't going after Merrill, I'm going to start to question Shero a bit.
That's not how the logic of this works at all. The Devils have to lose a player to expansion. They were always going to lose a player no matter what. So any trade before the expansion draft has to be characterized in this way

In addition, how is it stupid if Merrill is taken by Vegas? The Devils already have 6 D next year who are waiver-eligible and one guy who belongs on the roster - Greene, Severson, Moore, Lovejoy, Mueller, Prout, with Santini as the guy who should be here.

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06-19-2017, 11:03 AM
  #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakingOfTheDevils View Post
What moves my needle from "neutral" to "cautiously optimistic" is the probable (not confirmed by any means, but likely) Castron implications in this deal. The fact that he took Rychel at 14 in 2013, right after SJ took Mueller at 13, leads me to believe he is very well-informed on Mueller.

We've seen CBJ benefit from Castron's nose for talent, and that has earned my trust. Even if Mueller doesn't reach his ceiling with us, I'm somewhat confident that he'll be, at the very least, serviceable.
This is a solid point to consider.

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06-19-2017, 11:04 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
The biggest mystery in this thread is why people seem to think Merrill is some amazing NHL prospect.

Now more than ever it should be pretty obvious to everyone that the Devils aren't as high on Merrill as many posters in this thread are. If they were, he would be protected.

For the record, I'm with the Devils, I don't understand why so many of you think he's so valuable. Merrill seems like a very typical, replaceable guy to me. I'm not even 100% convinced the expansion team's going to take him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I would gladly trade a 2nd round pick, for a guaranteed #4,#5, or #6 NHL regular defenseman for years to come.

Merrill is a guaranteed #4, #5, or #6 NHL regular defenseman (probably #6, but whatever).

Why is he worthless in one quote, but worth trading for (when his name is Mirco Mueller) in another?

Btw, Mueller is not a guaranteed #4, #5, or #6 NHL regular defenseman. That's what he could be. Right now, he's an AHL defenseman.

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06-19-2017, 11:07 AM
  #632
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Mueller was picked 18th, after Columbus picked Wennberg. Rychel was picked 19th.

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06-19-2017, 11:10 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Triumph View Post
That's not how the logic of this works at all. The Devils have to lose a player to expansion. They were always going to lose a player no matter what. So any trade before the expansion draft has to be characterized in this way

In addition, how is it stupid if Merrill is taken by Vegas? The Devils already have 6 D next year who are waiver-eligible and one guy who belongs on the roster - Greene, Severson, Moore, Lovejoy, Mueller, Prout, with Santini as the guy who should be here.
Dude, I know you love quoting my stuff to try and argue for no reason, but it's common sense Merrill would have likely been the 4th dman protected without Muller. That was this own boards consensus before this trade as well, by the way. So that is how the logic works.

Or, you can argue Bennett could have been protected and left Merrill exposed anyway. Point is, they traded for a player they'd have to protect. So this isn't just a 2nd and 4th if a player is taken that would have otherwise been protected.

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06-19-2017, 11:21 AM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
Merrill is a guaranteed #4, #5, or #6 NHL regular defenseman (probably #6, but whatever).

Why is he worthless in one quote, but worth trading for (when his name is Mirco Mueller) in another?

Btw, Mueller is not a guaranteed #4, #5, or #6 NHL regular defenseman. That's what he could be. Right now, he's an AHL defenseman.
I'm not sure why some are treating Merrill and Mueller as interchangeable parts. Just because they were the probable finalists for the last D protection slot, doesn't mean they're comparable in any way.

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06-19-2017, 11:23 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by RememberTheName View Post
Mueller did play a little bit more than he should have in his 19 year old season in the NHL even though he was definitely not ready towards the end of his stint, but I don't really think that he would be what I would call mishandled. He just hasnt been giften an opportunity to play since that time
39 games in the NHL in his rookie year, a year where he should have been developing in the AHL is the definition of mishandled. SJ rushed him, no question about it. He wasn't dominant in the WHL, they should have allowed him to develop in the AHL.

He came up to the NHL and played ok his first few games. Made some mistakes and lost confidence. It's clear the Sharks lost confidence in him over the past couple of years.

From what I know of him, he's a good skater and has size. What he lacks is decision making, which can be taught.

From what I've read, some of the posters on here are acting like this is the end of the world. We likely tried to make a move for a bigger name and the asking price was too much. We didn't give up much for Mueller (see the value of draft picks mentioned by a couple of posters above) and he's young enough that a change of scenery could do him good.

Happens all the time in this league....why can't it happen now? I just don't see why we are so negative about this deal. Is it because the dman wasn't Brodin, Dumba, Vatanen, or whoever else?

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06-19-2017, 11:23 AM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post

i dont think anyone on this board has said he is an "amazing NHL prospect"...so unless I'm mistaken about that, a statement like yours is the exact type of divisive comment that leads to the constant stream of circular, bull**** arguments around here. the truth is, he's a decent prospect that is worth a lot more to us than he is to other teams.
That "leads to" a constant stream of circular, bull**** arguments around here? Have you not been following this thread?

Because that's precisely what's already happening during the bulk of this > 600 comments heavily focused on Merrill. Which is basically the point of my comment. He's not that great of a player for people to be acting apoplectic about. If Vegas takes him, big deal.

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06-19-2017, 11:24 AM
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
Mueller was picked 18th, after Columbus picked Wennberg. Rychel was picked 19th.
Fair, but the point still stands. Mueller was most likely up there on Castron's list.

At the very least, Castron knows a lot about the player.

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06-19-2017, 11:25 AM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
Mueller is not a guaranteed #4, #5, or #6 NHL regular defenseman. That's what he could be. Right now, he's an AHL defenseman.
Not true (anymore).

On the Devils, Mueller is a starting NHL defenseman. The only reason he was an "AHL defenseman" in San Jose, is because the Sharks are actually a decent team.

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06-19-2017, 11:27 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by CoryForVezina View Post
Dude, I know you love quoting my stuff to try and argue for no reason, but it's common sense Merrill would have likely been the 4th dman protected without Muller. That was this own boards consensus before this trade as well, by the way. So that is how the logic works.

Or, you can argue Bennett could have been protected and left Merrill exposed anyway. Point is, they traded for a player they'd have to protect. So this isn't just a 2nd and 4th if a player is taken that would have otherwise been protected.
It's garbage logic, which is why I responded to your post, and why I'm responding to this one as well. The Devils were always going to lose a player to expansion. I agree that perhaps they could have protected Merrill, but then they would lose a different player. Would that player be better or worse? Probably worse, but by how much? We don't know. You undermine your own point here by mentioning Bennett - given that the Devils did protect Moore, we know that if they had protected 7-3 and protected Bennett, they also would've exposed Merrill in that iteration.

My point is that all trades would have to be judged that way because the Devils are always going to lose a player to expansion. Feel free to think that I'm responding to you for 'no reason'.

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06-19-2017, 11:29 AM
  #640
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There seems to be a consensus here that Vegas will take Merrill. Why?

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06-19-2017, 11:30 AM
  #641
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I don't get the hate with the trade. You all wanted a d with the second round pick right? Well we got one so instead one is 18 and the other is 22 years old? The kid who we pick probably wouldn't even sniff the lineup for 3 years. Mueller will be in it next year.

I doubt shero woke up and said screw it let me trade away two picks for nothing. If this was lou and conte I would be worried not shero and cranston

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06-19-2017, 11:32 AM
  #642
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It's more likely they take Bennett than Merrill. They can't use all their picks on every team's best available defenseman and goalie.

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06-19-2017, 11:33 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by JrFischer54 View Post
I doubt shero woke up and said screw it let me trade away two picks for nothing. If this was lou and conte I would be worried not shero and cranston
Yes, and the even more obvious takeaway that should be glaringly obvious, is that the Devils' scouting staff believes Mueller has more upside than Merrill.

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06-19-2017, 11:35 AM
  #644
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
Yes, and the even more obvious takeaway that should be glaringly obvious, is that the Devils' scouting staff believes Mueller has more upside than Merrill.
Which he does at this point.

At least Mueller won't constantly trip and fall down when he starts skating backwards.

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06-19-2017, 11:37 AM
  #645
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Originally Posted by JrFischer54 View Post
I don't get the hate with the trade. You all wanted a d with the second round pick right? Well we got one so instead one is 18 and the other is 22 years old? The kid who we pick probably wouldn't even sniff the lineup for 3 years. Mueller will be in it next year.

I doubt shero woke up and said screw it let me trade away two picks for nothing. If this was lou and conte I would be worried not shero and cranston
well said!

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06-19-2017, 11:41 AM
  #646
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http://njdab.com/articles/what-did-t...mueller-trade/

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06-19-2017, 11:42 AM
  #647
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
well said!
You know it's a good deal if me and this guy agree!

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06-19-2017, 11:43 AM
  #648
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Hmm. His AHL stats don't look so great.

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06-19-2017, 11:46 AM
  #649
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Hmm. His AHL stats don't look so great.
So your upset that we got a 3rd pairing guy that can play this year. As opposed to drafting a guy who maybe will be a 2nd pairing guy 3 years from now?

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06-19-2017, 11:55 AM
  #650
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Quote:
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So your upset that we got a 3rd pairing guy that can play this year. As opposed to drafting a guy who maybe will be a 2nd pairing guy 3 years from now?
Yes, because we already have 2 other 3rd pairing guys.

-edit-
I wouldn't say upset. Just dissapointed.

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