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Jets Goaltending General Discussion Vol. 2

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:25 PM
  #401
D1G
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Originally Posted by Weezeric View Post
The jets had a 4.5 million dollar goalie in the minors last year, you think they will cheap out over a million or 2 to improve their goaltending...??
Ya I do. That's my honest opinion.

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06-19-2017, 01:39 PM
  #402
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Well not exactly. Fleury is a true # 1 but the price on him would be high & he has his issues as well (mostly perceived I would add because he's proven to everyone this playoffs that he can now win the big playoff games as well as anyone)
I worded my post fairly carefully:

Quote:
Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
I don't see anyone available to us through the XD that can be classified as a #1 goaltender to go with.
Fleury has an NTC and is being positioned as the temporary face of the LV franchise by McPhee.

Fleury simply isn't available to the Jets.

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06-19-2017, 01:43 PM
  #403
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Fleury has an NTC and is being positioned as the temporary face of the LV franchise by McPhee.

Fleury simply isn't available to the Jets.
Yup... all the talk about MAF coming to Winnipeg needs to stop. It is not happening. Other than some hockey players, what Vegas really needs is a name and a face. Fleury is it. Decent player still, multiple Stanley Cups, etc. Vegas is taking Fleury.... short of the Jets trading Laine for Fleury


The depressing part to me is Chevy has had 6 years to build up our goalies and in one day this week, without ever playing a game, the Vegas franchise is going to have better goaltending then the Jets.

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06-19-2017, 01:48 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Yup... all the talk about MAF coming to Winnipeg needs to stop. It is not happening. Other than some hockey players, what Vegas really needs is a name and a face. Fleury is it. Decent player still, multiple Stanley Cups, etc. Vegas is taking Fleury.... short of the Jets trading Laine for Fleury
Well, to be honest, I think his NTC is an even bigger barrier than LV's opinion of him.

Why is Fleury coming to Canada? Why does he want to be part of a situation in which a 24 y/o successor has already been anointed? He just went through that whole mess in Pittsburgh.

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06-19-2017, 05:14 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
He was in the toilet and shocked his phone actually rang; accidentally dropped it in the crapper.

Either that or he's doing nothing again.

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06-19-2017, 05:24 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by D1G View Post
My point is strictly about money. Insert any goalie you want for 2 mil or under. Winning has never came before money yet with Chevy. And I doubt we see it happen with our goaltending situation.
Until recently spending money would have been a complete waste. We did not have the foundation to compete. The organization has always maintained that they would spend when it made sense to do so.

You seem to be bothered by the fact they haven't simply wasted money. You do realize that play-off hockey is highly profitable? I'm pretty sure Chevy knows this. They have passed on making more money by squeaking into the play-offs each year in order to build the foundation necessary to actually compete.

If Chevy doesn't get a GOOD goalie this off-season - and pay what it costs, then the Jets lose more than the cost of a good goalie. Your cheapskate theme just doesn't make sense.

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06-19-2017, 05:29 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Until recently spending money would have been a complete waste. We did not have the foundation to compete. The organization has always maintained that they would spend when it made sense to do so.

You seem to be bothered by the fact they haven't simply wasted money. You do realize that play-off hockey is highly profitable? I'm pretty sure Chevy knows this. They have passed on making more money by squeaking into the play-offs each year in order to build the foundation necessary to actually compete.

If Chevy doesn't get a GOOD goalie this off-season - and pay what it costs, then the Jets lose more than the cost of a good goalie. Your cheapskate theme just doesn't make sense.
At least say my cheapskate theory doesn't make sense after Chevy proves me wrong.

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06-19-2017, 05:30 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by D1G View Post
I would take miller, he has a history of putting up good numbers on ****** teams. I would also go for mason. And there's a difference between a raanta or grabnour and a back up. Those two goalies will want to fight for the starting job. And I think it's Hellys crease and Chevy does not want to hurt his confidence even more. So most likely he will grab a back up for him
That's a completely different argument than the one where it is all about the money. Which is it?

I fear Chevy might have decided that Helle is the solution and just look for a replacement for Hutch. That could, just possibly work. Or Helle could come up with another .907 season and we miss the play-offs again. I think one is no more likely than the other. It is a big gamble on Hellebuyck.

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06-19-2017, 05:54 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
That's a completely different argument than the one where it is all about the money. Which is it?

I fear Chevy might have decided that Helle is the solution and just look for a replacement for Hutch. That could, just possibly work. Or Helle could come up with another .907 season and we miss the play-offs again. I think one is no more likely than the other. It is a big gamble on Hellebuyck.
I think it's a little bit of both. But my whole point is that Helly gets the starts. And we go for cheap back up.

What kind of gm goes with a rookie to " evaluate " him without a competent back up ? And then when both fail early the gm doesn't fix it. A gm that has a budget and wasn't allowed to fix it. It's either that or he is the worst gm in the world which I don't believe.

And for my confidence reasoning. I feel that Chevy ruined hellys confidence last year and by signing a goalie that makes more then him he knows fragile Helly will get shook. Also if he gets a goalie that can take the crease from him he will gain more confidence issues


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06-19-2017, 06:48 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by CaptainChef View Post
Yep, that's where I'm at with Raanta & Grubauer as well - fine as insurance should Helly not be able to provide solid goaltending, but I don't think either is much more of a guarantee than Hellybuyck.

Seriously if we wanted to make sure we have a good goalie going forward, we'd may as well go all in on Fleury. Yes, he's had his issues, but if I was going to spend a first on a goalie, he's the only one I'd go for. If folks really think that Helly is not nor will ever be the answer, go for the best available & that's Fleury.
You had me until flurry. Flurry is what hellebuyck is right now, except no upside.

Fleury is not a good goalie.

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06-19-2017, 06:49 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
You had me until flurry. Flurry is what hellebuyck is right now, except no upside.

Fleury is not a good goalie.
You think Helly would of took the pens to the third round with that defense ? I don't. Fleury is a completely different type of goalie and leaps and bounds better then Helly

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06-19-2017, 06:57 PM
  #412
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Fleury's not washed up. He's just never been better then borderline his whole career.

A goalies job is to stop as many shots as possible. Flury does stop and had always stopped an average to below average amount of pucks relative to other starters.

He's really not that good. To be honest the cult of "Fleury the star goalie" is quite peculiar too me

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06-19-2017, 07:04 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by D1G View Post
You think Helly would of took the pens to the third round with that defense ? I don't. Fleury is a completely different type of goalie and leaps and bounds better then Helly
Sure.

If you give tmhim enough chances he might.

How many times did the pens get to the cup in Fleury's career?


Fact: he lets in more goals then much cheaper goalies per shots faced.

Fact: that is the entirety of his job.

Color it anyway you want, he doesn't stop the same amount of pucks on average as "bonifide starters" seriously, go check the sv% of his "peers" (price, Lundqvist, Miller, bobrovsky, rinne, etc etc etc)

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06-19-2017, 07:11 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Sure.

If you give tmhim enough chances he might.

How many times did the pens get to the cup in Fleury's career?


Fact: he lets in more goals then much cheaper goalies per shots faced.

Fact: that is the entirety of his job.

Color it anyway you want, he doesn't stop the same amount of pucks on average as "bonifide starters" seriously, go check the sv% of his "peers" (price, Lundqvist, Miller, bobrovsky, rinne, etc etc etc)
Fleury has had a number of dud runs in the post season. Pens fans wanted to run him out of town a few years ago due to his playoff performances. He went on a nice run this year that clouds everyone's current view on his abilities. The crux of the matter indicated that over the last 5 to 6 years he's been a slightly above league average goalie. Nothing that can't be found in FA this year.

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06-19-2017, 07:24 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Yup... all the talk about MAF coming to Winnipeg needs to stop. It is not happening. Other than some hockey players, what Vegas really needs is a name and a face. Fleury is it. Decent player still, multiple Stanley Cups, etc. Vegas is taking Fleury.... short of the Jets trading Laine for Fleury


The depressing part to me is Chevy has had 6 years to build up our goalies and in one day this week, without ever playing a game, the Vegas franchise is going to have better goaltending then the Jets.
The Jets are still too high on Helly to have tried fixing their goalie needs before the protected lists needed to be submitted. Which is fair as Helly still holds a lot of promise. Now is the window for Chevy to take advantage of the glut of goalies available.

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06-19-2017, 08:42 PM
  #416
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I'd be willing to roll with Helle and Hutch provided Flaherty is fired.
I fear we could bring in Price or Holtby and they'd get messed up by seasons end.
Talk about a cheap fix a new goalie coach who'd thunk it ?

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06-20-2017, 12:05 AM
  #417
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I am concerned about bringing in one of these promising back-ups. They just do not have a track record and it would be a gamble.

I'd rather just secure Elliot on a 2-year contract, giving up no trade compensation, and have a good safety net for Hellebuyck. Really, I would think that would suffice in order to allow the Jets to take the next step. I'd rather not gamble on goaltending after how last year turned out.

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06-20-2017, 05:52 AM
  #418
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Honestly I just want a good goalie, I'm sure many other fans think the same way, we have never had a single good goalie since the move here and never attempted to get one, at this point I don't want the risk of another under average goalie by picking up one who played as a backup in front of a great defence. The Jets have one of the most deep Offences in the league and with that said I'd be totally willing to give up Perrault or Little and some Prospects and picks for the goalie we need for the future, I don't want Fleury and I don't want no backups I want a starter who is under 35 with a 910%+

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06-20-2017, 06:04 AM
  #419
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We know we are getting Conner on some capacity I think that's a given.
I guess by early July we will know which goalie will be playing with him

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06-20-2017, 06:05 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
Honestly I just want a good goalie, I'm sure many other fans think the same way, we have never had a single good goalie since the move here and never attempted to get one, at this point I don't want the risk of another under average goalie by picking up one who played as a backup in front of a great defence. The Jets have one of the most deep Offences in the league and with that said I'd be totally willing to give up Perrault or Little and some Prospects and picks for the goalie we need for the future, I don't want Fleury and I don't want no backups I want a starter who is under 35 with a 910%+
You have described Elliott pretty well and he won't be that expensive. He generally plays half the season and will fetch you .910 (with the Flames) and was a .920 goalie for Hitch in St Louis over 5 seasons. The upside is we won't have to burn assets to get him but the downside is there he has not a bell cow 65 game started if Helly fails.....he is a career 1a or 1b in a good rotation. Realtically that is probably what TNSE want for next year anyways. I am not saying this is what I want but it might be what we get.

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06-20-2017, 06:19 AM
  #421
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You have described Elliott pretty well and he won't be that expensive. He generally plays half the season and will fetch you .910 (with the Flames) and was a .920 goalie for Hitch in St Louis over 5 seasons. The upside is we won't have to burn assets to get him but the downside is there he has not a bell cow 65 game started if Helly fails.....he is a career 1a or 1b in a good rotation. Realtically that is probably what TNSE want for next year anyways. I am not saying this is what I want but it might be what we get.
I agree that's what we might get which is not what this club needs.
This club needs a hungry younger guy that needs to start.
We need a man who will stand as a symbol and symbols have got to be tall, some one with taste and the tiniest waist......😀
I'd like to get a
Mason or Lehner if he was available.

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06-20-2017, 06:45 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Guffman View Post
I am concerned about bringing in one of these promising back-ups. They just do not have a track record and it would be a gamble.

I'd rather just secure Elliot on a 2-year contract, giving up no trade compensation, and have a good safety net for Hellebuyck. Really, I would think that would suffice in order to allow the Jets to take the next step. I'd rather not gamble on goaltending after how last year turned out.
I'm the opposite. I see this as an unique opportunity to find a starter for the next decade. A Talbot or Jones type acquisition. Teams that went on significant playoff runs with a goalie that could carry the load. One way to exploit the goalie market is to find a backup that is ready to be a starter stuck behind a veteran #1. A 2nd and a mid-level prospect type cost. Someone like Raanta who is 27 y/o. If we go Elliot it is a short term upgrade over Hutch but our future in net rides completely on Helly becoming a true #1.

I'm afraid if we don't gamble on goaltending we are setting ourselves up for another year of disappointment. If Helly doesn't take the next step and we get what Calgary got from Elliot last season we are once again getting below league average which is not good enough for a young mistake prone team.

I mostly support Chevy's patient slow build, but I'll be seriously pissed if he takes the cautious and conservative approach to fixing our net.

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06-20-2017, 07:21 AM
  #423
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I may remember wrong but I keep having this thought of how Elliott had a abysmal start to last season and was outplayed by Calgary's backup.
If the team is determined to make the playoffs Elliott is not the option that makes me feel the safest.

edit, I see KingBogo has the same thought.

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06-20-2017, 07:29 AM
  #424
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I'm the opposite. I see this as an unique opportunity to find a starter for the next decade. A Talbot or Jones type acquisition. Teams that went on significant playoff runs with a goalie that could carry the load. One way to exploit the goalie market is to find a backup that is ready to be a starter stuck behind a veteran #1. A 2nd and a mid-level prospect type cost. Someone like Raanta who is 27 y/o. If we go Elliot it is a short term upgrade over Hutch but our future in net rides completely on Helly becoming a true #1.

I'm afraid if we don't gamble on goaltending we are setting ourselves up for another year of disappointment. If Helly doesn't take the next step and we get what Calgary got from Elliot last season we are once again getting below league average which is not good enough for a young mistake prone team.

I mostly support Chevy's patient slow build, but I'll be seriously pissed if he takes the cautious and conservative approach to fixing our net.
If we have Elliot and not an excess rash of injuries, this is a playoff team next year and we effectively take the next step. We also get a better feel if Hellbuyck will be the man.

I don't want to gamble on goaltending if one of the outcomes is not making the playoffs next year due to both unestablished goalies not taking the reins, much like last year.

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06-20-2017, 07:35 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Guffman View Post
If we have Elliot and not an excess rash of injuries, this is a playoff team next year and we effectively take the next step. We also get a better feel if Hellbuyck will be the man.

I don't want to gamble on goaltending if one of the outcomes is not making the playoffs next year due to both unestablished goalies not taking the reins, much like last year.
Raanta has proven himself to be an elite backup, and we know that today already. But we also know he could have starter potential but that's potential.
If Helle fails to take the next step I don't feen anymore safer with Elliot than I would with Raanta.

14games 1.89 .936
25games 2.24 .919
30games 2.26 .922.
Raantas backup stats.

Brubauers beauty is that he's 7 years younger than Elliott and RFA.

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