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Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread: Frozen, The Vegas Musical..... Draft 6/21

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:18 PM
  #551
3rdPeriodCringe
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
Why not have it be a fluid arrangement like Pavelski/Thornton or even Draisaitl/McDavid?
Don't get me wrong.

I'd opt for this setup as well but for whatever reason McLellan wants RNH in the centre position as opposed to the wing since he's earned his right to that spot. Again, factoring seniority.

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06-19-2017, 01:18 PM
  #552
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Luxuries shouldn't be taken for granted in a cap world.

RNH isn't going to be a prototypical 3C, it'll be in name only. His role will be to provide 50+ points offense while playing responsible defensively, much more descriptive to a 2C. He failed to do that this year, and all the end of year interviews form TMac, Chia, and himself address that it was his offense they want to see thrive more. He's not going to be wedged in shutdown role solely.

The times you will see McD-Drai-RNH run their separate lines will be the games where we need a shakeup to spark something offensively or disrupt a defensive system.

I'll go back to the San Jose example, they deploy 4 centers on 2 lines in their top 6.
I fully expect McD-Drai-RNH to be 3 of our top 6 forwards on opening day, and we'll be better served for it.

EDIT: As far as affording him, this is why you move Eberle out. And look to get contracts like Fayne and Pouliot off the books.
I'm not really sure if RNH can produce 50+ points consistently in such a role.

I'd rather have a cheaper 3C but have the better defensive depth.

RNH is just not well suited to 3C. He's weak and terrible at face offs. He is a guy who needs to be a 1C somewhere, where he gets top unit PP time and the main ask of him is to produce offence.

If we can add a Vatanen or Dumba I think it rounds out our D nicely. We get a right shot offensive minded D.

Griogrenko is not likely to give you 50 points either, but he could maybe develop into a 35-40 point isn 3C, that wouldn't be terrible. He was 57% in the face off dot last year and is 6'3.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:20 PM
  #553
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Question:

Vegas has to take 30 players. active roster needs to be 23.

if they don't select/trade for waiver exempt players, and have to waive is there anything stopping the original teams from getting their players back?

I'm thinking in reference to reinhart. there is no way he actually makes their final 23, so they would have to trade or waive him, and if he's waived then can the oilers just reclaim?

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06-19-2017, 01:28 PM
  #554
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Losing Russell to LV would be ideal, as he's a guy I don't see back.

Even if Reinhart is taken, I still don't see Russell back. The team will take the cheaper path and re-sign Oesterle as the #7.

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-______
Sekera-Benning
Reinhart/Oesterle

With Eberle and/or the 1st being moved to fill that last hole.

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06-19-2017, 01:28 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
It's called negotiating you start there and if they say no, simplify.

RNH
EDM 3rd

for

1 of Dumba/Vatanen/Manson (we get to choose)
Grigorenko

Simple. Easy.

IMO they accept. We only think centres are easy to come because we have so many, but that's only because we ****ing sucked for an entire decade to get what we have. Before that it was the annual "maybe this is the year we finally get a centre to play with Hemsky" sweepstakes around here.
I'd take Manson of those players but I highly doubt they accept that deal.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:31 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
why Staal when they can take Dumba?

I would offer up RNH + Eberle + 1st to Vegas for our choice of 3 exposed players.
Again, I doubt Vegas does that. We like to overvalue our players.

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06-19-2017, 01:31 PM
  #557
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Bob said Vegas is on Spencer Foo's list

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06-19-2017, 01:32 PM
  #558
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Las Vegas Playoff-Calibre team:

Nelson-Shipachyov-Radulov
Perron-Marchessault-Neal
Boedker-Burmistrov-Chiasson
Nordstrom-Lewis-Rust



Shattenkirk-Enstrom
J Johnson-Vatanen
Methot-Dumba
Van Riemsdyk


Raanta
Mrazek



Extras:
Forward: Carrier, Josefson, Rychel, Boucher, Weal
Defense: Reinhart, Dotchin, Oleksiak
Goalie: Pickard, Subban

Cap Hit: $68.8 million (would be close to cap with Shattenkirk and Radulov raises)

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:32 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I think we may want to seriously consider Ryan Nugent Hopkins at this point due to the unique circumstances.

Lets be honest here in the long run, does anyone see him as a good fit here at 6 million dollars to play third line center? It's not ideal for him and it's likely going to press us down the line in cap terms to have that much money tied down on centres.

Plus, this could be our chance to finally add a real deadly PP option like a Dumba or Vatanen.

RNH would be a great fit for Vegas, they are going to get just about everything this expansion draft it looks like except centres.

As I said

RNH
for
Dumba/Vatanen (our choice)
Grigorenko

Is something I think they would legit accept. They are going to have like 8-10 NHL capable D on their back end, they need top six centers. Forcing some Russian kid who's never played an NHL to be your no.1 C is not a good look.
Well the closest comparable we have to our team at the moment is the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Penguins ran Crosby and Malkin up the middle making $8.7M each and Staal at $4M at a time when the salary cap was $56.8M accounting for 37.6% of the salary cap. While we don't know exactly what are guys are going to get let's just assume $10M for McDavid, $7.5M for Drai, and $6M for RNH and this is at a time when the salary cap is $75M that amounts to 31.3% of the salary cap, while that is a big chunk of cap it isn't an unworkable sum especially with our top 2 D and #1 G on good value deals. When Pitt downgraded on J. Staal to B. Sutter it hurt them pretty badly and it wasn't till they added Bonino that they started turning around the ship, more changes were made than just Bonino who ofcourse helped like Kessel as a prime example, but it changed them from being just a 2 line team back into a 3 line team or arguably a 4 line team with Cullen's help.

I too see the potential value than be extracted out of Vegas as tempting, when they are likely to be lacking a 2nd line center, but there is reason for us to be cautious as well. There is no guarantee we can get a good 3rd line center replacement, RNH is also a phenomenal injury fill in if heaven forbid one of our top 2 guys go down, Drai also hasn't had a long run by himself at center so no guarantee he is fully ready for it, and it strips us of the versatility to move Drai to the wing to load up the McDavid line.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:35 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Stud Muffin View Post
Bob said Vegas is on Spencer Foo's list
I don't even know if Foo is any good but the thought of having a Oilers jersey with "Foo" on it appeals to me for some weird reason...haha

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06-19-2017, 01:35 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
I'd take Manson of those players but I highly doubt they accept that deal.
Their centres are not looking to nice honestly.

Button and Serevalli mock drafted:
Jordan Weal, Nick Shore, Brock Nelson (usually plays LW), Cody Eakin, Patrick Holland, and Nick Dowd as potential centres.

We know there is possibly a deal to protect the Islanders forwards for a 1st ensuring de Haan gets picked.

SO really they have no centres and could grab a top 2 C for the plethera of D they have coming in. I think they are heavily incentivized to take that D for C deal.

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06-19-2017, 01:36 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
Question:

Vegas has to take 30 players. active roster needs to be 23.

if they don't select/trade for waiver exempt players, and have to waive is there anything stopping the original teams from getting their players back?

I'm thinking in reference to reinhart. there is no way he actually makes their final 23, so they would have to trade or waive him, and if he's waived then can the oilers just reclaim?
I believe there's a rule that a player selected in the expansion draft can not go back to their original team until something like January 1st.

And I know why you're used to it, but Edmonton's not first in line on the waiver wire any more.

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06-19-2017, 01:36 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Stud Muffin View Post
Bob said Vegas is on Spencer Foo's list
Makes sense.

It seems like Foo and his agent are being really smart about this.

I'd love it if he signed in Edmonton but playing in your hometown is not for everybody.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:40 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by McDrai View Post
Las Vegas Playoff-Calibre team:

Nelson-Shipachyov-Radulov
Perron-Marchessault-Neal
Boedker-Burmistrov-Chiasson
Nordstrom-Lewis-Rust



Shattenkirk-Enstrom
J Johnson-Vatanen
Methot-Dumba
Van Riemsdyk


Raanta
Mrazek



Extras:
Forward: Carrier, Josefson, Rychel, Boucher, Weal
Defense: Reinhart, Dotchin, Oleksiak
Goalie: Pickard, Subban

Cap Hit: $68.8 million (would be close to cap with Shattenkirk and Radulov raises)
Those forwards don't look that great. They may have a pretty good defense but I still believe the forwards aren't going to be all that great.

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06-19-2017, 01:40 PM
  #565
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I don't understand how people can't see that RNH has a bad contract, it is way too long and he is overpaid $2 million for what he brings.

Eberle's contract is actually fair given his average production, if he had 58 points this year as per his average it would be fine. Plus the term is much better.

If we trade RNH we can replace him with a 3C for half the money, solidify our D core and still have money to improve our wings.
Both Eberle & RNH would fetch 5mill per year on the open market today no questions asked.

RNH is only just 24 years old. For his build, play style, and position, he is not even technically in his prime yet. While RNH is most likely not ever going to be even remotely close to Datzyuk, they do have similarities and Datz didn't break ppg until 27 years old. At the same age he had his rookie year under his belt and 35 points. The next he had 51.

Plays against the highest quality of competition the league can throw at him.

Solid Penalty killer.

Is a playmaking center of the top 6 variety in terms of raw skill. Center position being a position that is far more impactful in terms of winning than a winger by a significant margin. Already has four 55+ point pro-rated seasons under his belt and is very obviously working on his defensive side of the game.

He was easily one of our best players against San Hose in the playoffs, shutting down the likes of Burns and Pavelski.

It's unfortunate that he did sign a contract that was obviously too big for him. At the time those contracts were not considered bad. I would also be shocked if RNH is not worth at least 6 mill by the end of this contract. Hope he shows loyalty and gives a hometown discount for his next deal to stay with the club.

This club needs more centers, not less, wingers are a dime a dozen. Nuge adds depth, skill, and flexibility. There is no way we can replace wheat he brings to the table, outside of the draft.

If we play Leon as our #2 and Nuge as our #3, of course we are overpaying in theory, but our team is much better for it.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:43 PM
  #566
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Perron-Staal-Neal
Cammalleri-Shipachev-Marchessault
Dano-Plekanec-Ryan
Boucher-Helm-Stempniak

de Haan-Manson
Schmidt-Dotchin
McNabb-TVR
Schlemko/Miller

Fleury
Raanta

Extras: W. Karlsson, Marincin, Eakin, Chiasson, Burmistrov, Ullmark, Barberio, Neuvirth, Reinhart

Not bad Vegas.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:44 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
Again, I doubt Vegas does that. We like to overvalue our players.
No, we like to devalue our own players while they are still here, trade them for a fraction of what they should have gotten, and then see them turn it around and play great on a new team

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06-19-2017, 01:45 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Both Eberle & RNH would fetch 5mill per year on the open market today no questions asked.

RNH is only just 24 years old. For his build, play style, and position, he is not even technically in his prime yet. While RNH is most likely not ever going to be even remotely close to Datzyuk, they do have similarities and Datz didn't break ppg until 27 years old. At the same age he had his rookie year under his belt and 35 points. The next he had 51.

Plays against the highest quality of competition the league can throw at him.

Solid Penalty killer.

Is a playmaking center of the top 6 variety in terms of raw skill. Center position being a position that is far more impactful in terms of winning than a winger by a significant margin. Already has four 55+ point pro-rated seasons under his belt and is very obviously working on his defensive side of the game.

He was easily one of our best players against San Hose in the playoffs, shutting down the likes of Burns and Pavelski.

It's unfortunate that he did sign a contract that was obviously too big for him. At the time those contracts were not considered bad. I would also be shocked if RNH is not worth at least 6 mill by the end of this contract. Hope he shows loyalty and gives a hometown discount for his next deal to stay with the club.

This club needs more centers, not less, wingers are a dime a dozen. Nuge adds depth, skill, and flexibility. There is no way we can replace wheat he brings to the table, outside of the draft.

If we play Leon as our #2 and Nuge as our #3, of course we are overpaying in theory, but our team is much better for it.
How many people actually believe if Eberle was a UFA some team wouldn't give him 5.5 or 6 million?

Did anyone see what older UFAs who score at his rate got last year?

RNH has value to the Oilers. If someone wants him, you don't deal him unless the offer knocks your socks off.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:47 PM
  #569
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Having RNH and Letestu as your two best defensive centre is a problem; but just swapping RNH with Draisaitl doesn't fix that issue. Moving RNH into a secondary defensive role and Letestu to 3rd in the pecking order does.

Just go out and sign Boyle as the #4 defensive centre and move Letestu into DD's softer minutes #3 role.

Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl
Pouliot-RNH-Eberle
Lucic-Letestu-Slepyshev
Caggiula-Boyle-Kassian

Extras: Pitlick, Khaira, Pakarinen, Puljujarvi.

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06-19-2017, 01:48 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
Question:

Vegas has to take 30 players. active roster needs to be 23.

if they don't select/trade for waiver exempt players, and have to waive is there anything stopping the original teams from getting their players back?

I'm thinking in reference to reinhart. there is no way he actually makes their final 23, so they would have to trade or waive him, and if he's waived then can the oilers just reclaim?
It's an interesting question. I guess they would have to waive the players they do not keep on the active roster and in that case they can be claimed. But they can also trade them for picks prospects.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:49 PM
  #571
ToeMcDrag83
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'm not really sure if RNH can produce 50+ points consistently in such a role.

I'd rather have a cheaper 3C but have the better defensive depth.

RNH is just not well suited to 3C. He's weak and terrible at face offs. He is a guy who needs to be a 1C somewhere, where he gets top unit PP time and the main ask of him is to produce offence.

If we can add a Vatanen or Dumba I think it rounds out our D nicely. We get a right shot offensive minded D.

Griogrenko is not likely to give you 50 points either, but he could maybe develop into a 35-40 point isn 3C, that wouldn't be terrible. He was 57% in the face off dot last year and is 6'3.
I guess where we disagree is that I think he'll be our 2C most of the time, and then drop to 3C in some games based on situation.

Agree with poster who is suggesting Draisaitl play with RNH. McDavid, I think we probably agree, can still make an impact (to put it lightly) with players like Maroon, Caggiula, Pulju, Slepyshev or a vet RW signing. RNH hits 50 easy with 40/82 games with a Drai. I can't go on last season as evidence that RNH will hit 50, I know, but I believe his point totals also suffered from Eberle and Pouliot's lackluster seasons.

Vatanen and Dumba are great targets and they give our top 4 a solid, cost-controlled balance that we'd be lucky to have. With the price D are going to go for and the leverage VGK is sitting on, they may very well ask for RNH, but that's where I decline. Our 1st this year is a good starting piece for either of those two.

For a lot of the league, priority positions are probably Goalie, Defence, Centers, Wingers.
I think in the Pacific, we are sitting more at Goalie, Centers, Defense, Wingers.

A piece like Grigorenko, with the value you're saying he can bring, is not a bad one to target. I agree he can bring 30 points, faceoff prowess and some size. Sheltered minutes he'd be very valuable. Eberle has to be able to bring back Grigorenko plus no problem.

How about Eberle + 5th for Grigorenko + Bogosian? Vegas has better defense to target and there are not much better selections off of Colorado or Buffalo.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:50 PM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDrai View Post
Las Vegas Playoff-Calibre team:

Nelson-Shipachyov-Radulov
Perron-Marchessault-Neal
Boedker-Burmistrov-Chiasson
Nordstrom-Lewis-Rust



Shattenkirk-Enstrom
J Johnson-Vatanen
Methot-Dumba
Van Riemsdyk


Raanta
Mrazek



Extras:
Forward: Carrier, Josefson, Rychel, Boucher, Weal
Defense: Reinhart, Dotchin, Oleksiak
Goalie: Pickard, Subban

Cap Hit: $68.8 million (would be close to cap with Shattenkirk and Radulov raises)
I don't see Marc Andre Fleury there.

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06-19-2017, 01:50 PM
  #573
LTIR
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
Again, I doubt Vegas does that. We like to overvalue our players.
How many 50pt+ will they have on their roster? Marchasseault might be the only one.
RNH should easily be their #1C even if they give up on Dumba and get Staal.

our players have lost their value because of their cap hit. Vegas has no cap issues and could use both Eberle and Nuge. They will also have 27\29 NHL players on 1 way deals after expansion draft. quantity for quality would be on the card.

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Old
06-19-2017, 01:54 PM
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Both Eberle & RNH would fetch 5mill per year on the open market today no questions asked.

RNH is only just 24 years old. For his build, play style, and position, he is not even technically in his prime yet. While RNH is most likely not ever going to be even remotely close to Datzyuk, they do have similarities and Datz didn't break ppg until 27 years old. At the same age he had his rookie year under his belt and 35 points. The next he had 51.

Plays against the highest quality of competition the league can throw at him.

Solid Penalty killer.

Is a playmaking center of the top 6 variety in terms of raw skill. Center position being a position that is far more impactful in terms of winning than a winger by a significant margin. Already has four 55+ point pro-rated seasons under his belt and is very obviously working on his defensive side of the game.

He was easily one of our best players against San Hose in the playoffs, shutting down the likes of Burns and Pavelski.

It's unfortunate that he did sign a contract that was obviously too big for him. At the time those contracts were not considered bad. I would also be shocked if RNH is not worth at least 6 mill by the end of this contract. Hope he shows loyalty and gives a hometown discount for his next deal to stay with the club.

This club needs more centers, not less, wingers are a dime a dozen. Nuge adds depth, skill, and flexibility. There is no way we can replace wheat he brings to the table, outside of the draft.

If we play Leon as our #2 and Nuge as our #3, of course we are overpaying in theory, but our team is much better for it.
Survey says bingo. We can't let the contract situation cloud the fact how much better we are down the middle with RNH, and as a result of center >>> winger, much better as an overall top 6/top 9.

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06-19-2017, 01:59 PM
  #575
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Eberle + 1st + Jones (who goes to Vegas AHL team) for Dumba and their best 3C guy such as Grigorenko AND LVK takes Pouliot in the expansion... Saves Reinhart who will most certainly be LVK's choice... no chance they take Khaira who's barely a capable AHL player over Reinhart. Sweeten the deal with American Jones to get the Pouliot side done freeing up a TON of cap space in this deal.

I also wonder if a backup goalie from LVK could be a target?? Grubauer? Pickard??

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