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Anaheim and Expansion - Why the Ducks are in great shape ‎(pt2)

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Old
06-19-2017, 02:44 PM
  #626
nbducksfan19
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Originally Posted by remote View Post
I don't understand why tho. Its going to cost them more assets now that they didn't buy him out.
Just seems like horrible asset management.
Also if it turns out that GMGM took pennies when he could have had Manson/Vats he is not too bright.
none of that logic computes. The deal was made BEFORE they did not buy out bieksa, with vegas knowing if they don't make the deal, they would buy out Bieksa.

For the millionth time GMGM never had the chance to get Manson/Vats, if he doesn't do a deal with the ducks, then the ducks waive/buy out Bieksa and trade Vats pre Expansion Draft (even if its for a large discount).

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Old
06-19-2017, 02:45 PM
  #627
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[QUOTE=Getz2perry;133526487]
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Originally Posted by Psychoil View Post

Its a lost asset, we have a deep defense, losing Theodore + a first while being a loss doesn't hurt the team and the direction of the team now, wouldn't even phase us slightly.
If we seriously trade Theodore + 1st, than Murray is a moron. That's more than Drouin just fetched in a trade...

I don't think he even considers that deal. If that's what McPhee told him he needed, Bieksa would be exposed (or bought out) right now, and Vatanen would have been traded.

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Old
06-19-2017, 02:46 PM
  #628
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[QUOTE=Duck Off;133526659]
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Originally Posted by Getz2perry View Post

If we seriously trade Theodore + 1st, than Murray is a moron. That's more than Drouin just fetched in a trade...

I don't think he even considers that deal. If that's what McPhee told him he needed, Bieksa would be exposed (or bought out) right now, and Vatanen would have been traded.
Agreed, I'm talking worst case scenario.... I don't think itll be theo + 1st, but that's the absolute highest I could see it being.

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Old
06-19-2017, 02:47 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Duck Off View Post

Absolutely. Like I said earlier in the thread, I am not a big Murray fan, but if it was going to cost that much, he surely would have just went ahead and moved Vatanen and asked Bieksa to waive. Murray adores his first picks. He isn't going to tolerate not having two in a row.

I think most we lose is Theodore, which is pretty big. However, I could see Vegas accepting Stoner (who has negative value due to salary) in order to get him. I would call that under 1st round pick value though because of Stoner's negative value.
Why wouldn't Vegas let the ducks trade Vatanen, waive bieksa, screw up their cap and then take Theodore anyway? Why would they take stoner in that scenario without a big add to Theodore?

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06-19-2017, 02:47 PM
  #630
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This thread is a Groundhog Day of stupidity. It's almost impossible to distinguish the first from last page. Only difference is we know February 3rd will be on Wednesday. Wish we could quote everyone who will need to eat crow at that time, but it would probably be 50% as long as the thread itself.

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06-19-2017, 02:48 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Why wouldn't Vegas let the ducks trade Vatanen, waive bieksa, screw up their cap and then take Theodore anyway? Why would they take stoner in that scenario without a big add to Theodore?
How would they take Theodore? if bieska waves and vatanen is traded?

he doesn't need to be protected. I'm beginning to think you don't know what you are talking about and speaking strictly off emotions of your hatred for Anaheim.

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06-19-2017, 02:50 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Godzlaf View Post
This thread is a Groundhog Day of stupidity. It's almost impossible to distinguish the first from last page. Only difference is we know February 3rd will be on Wednesday. Wish we could quote everyone who will need to eat crow at that time, but it would probably be 50% as long as the thread itself.
They will hide like they always do, I don't recall last time I saw buffalo fans in Anaheim threads

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06-19-2017, 02:51 PM
  #633
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The picks and players are traded conditionally, not before the selection is made.

For example, Vegas gets so and so IF they don't choose Manson or Vatanen, if they do then they don't get the picks/players because they did not reach the condition. It's like conditions made when reaching a certain round, getting this amount of points, etc.

You can't take the trade and turn your back on them, that's why all the 'trades' now are still on the table as deals.

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06-19-2017, 02:51 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by ColdSteel2 View Post
and explain to me how your arguments are any less circular, unless you have some facts no one else knows about? I'll wait while you look up what circular reasoning is.

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06-19-2017, 02:52 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Why wouldn't Vegas let the ducks trade Vatanen, waive bieksa, screw up their cap and then take Theodore anyway? Why would they take stoner in that scenario without a big add to Theodore?
Yup, you lost your credibility on the subject here. Theodore under any circumstances was never in danger of being taken by Vegas.

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06-19-2017, 02:53 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Why wouldn't Vegas let the ducks trade Vatanen, waive bieksa, screw up their cap and then take Theodore anyway? Why would they take stoner in that scenario without a big add to Theodore?
How would they get Theodore? He's not eligible to be selected in ED. If they made Anaheim trade Vatanen, and get Bieksa to waive. Then Vegas is picking between:

Vermette (assuming Vatanen would have been traded for someone who needed to be protected. If not, Vermette is protected)
Kerdiles
Megna
Stoner
Wagner
Shaw

Edit: To add: Like someone mentioned, Theodore is the sweetener to get VGK to take Stoner. That's a pretty big piece to lose, but due to organization defensive depth, he's expendable. Stoner's 3.25 million also could be used to re-sign Eaves, which would be huge.


Last edited by Duck Off: 06-19-2017 at 03:00 PM.
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Old
06-19-2017, 02:54 PM
  #637
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There absolutely has to be a trade that was worked out earlier otherwise leaving vatanen and Manson exposed out of error could be enough for GMBM to lose his job. With that being said it still maybe just a handshake deal at this point which allows the possibility of GMGM pulling back and taking a large offer from another team. Unlikely but it is possible.

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Old
06-19-2017, 02:55 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by ScarTroy View Post
Yup, you lost your credibility on the subject here. Theodore under any circumstances was never in danger of being taken by Vegas.
Lost my credibility

I was asking a question. Wasn't aware Theodore was immune, that substantially changes anaheims position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Off View Post
How would they get Theodore? He's not eligible to be selected in ED. If they made Anaheim trade Vatanen, and get Bieksa to waive. Then Vegas is picking between:

Vermette (assuming Vatanen would have been traded for someone who needed to be protected. If not, Vermette is protected)
Kerdiles
Megna
Stoner
Wagner
Shaw
Didn't know that, thanks.

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06-19-2017, 02:57 PM
  #639
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Lost my credibility

I was asking a question. Wasn't aware Theodore was immune, that substantially changes anaheims position.



Didn't know that, thanks.
Theodore is basically the offer for vegas not to touch manson/vatanen

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06-19-2017, 02:57 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Lost my credibility

I was asking a question. Wasn't aware Theodore was immune, that substantially changes anaheims position.
Sorry if that came across harsh. It's hard to distinguish between real questions, or people who are hoping the ducks will get screwed trolling duck fans.
To answer the question, Theodore is exempt and can't be taken, and vatanen being traded and bieksa waiving would have no affect on him, unless he is a sweetener to take stoner off our hands.

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06-19-2017, 02:59 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by ScarTroy View Post
Sorry if that came across harsh. It's hard to distinguish between real questions, or people who are hoping the ducks will get screwed trolling duck fans.
To answer the question, Theodore is exempt and can't be taken, and vatanen being traded and bieksa waiving would have no affect on him, unless he is a sweetener to take stoner off our hands.
I don't care who gets screwed, I just thought ducks fans were being ridiculous. With Theodore being safe, Vegas has a fair bit less leverage than I thought.

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06-19-2017, 02:59 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Why wouldn't Vegas let the ducks trade Vatanen, waive bieksa, screw up their cap and then take Theodore anyway? Why would they take stoner in that scenario without a big add to Theodore?
redundant statement withdrawn.

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06-19-2017, 03:00 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by McVirginOil View Post
The picks and players are traded conditionally, not before the selection is made.

For example, Vegas gets so and so IF they don't choose Manson or Vatanen, if they do then they don't get the picks/players because they did not reach the condition. It's like conditions made when reaching a certain round, getting this amount of points, etc.

You can't take the trade and turn your back on them, that's why all the 'trades' now are still on the table as deals.
Thats awesome you got to see the terms of the deal! Any more insider informations you got?

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Old
06-19-2017, 03:01 PM
  #644
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I don't care who gets screwed, I just thought ducks fans were being ridiculous. With Theodore being safe, Vegas has a fair bit less leverage than I thought.
If Theodore wasn't safe... then yes youd see duck fans rioting to fire BM

all 10 of us would be at Honda center right now with signs and inconvenient cone layouts

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06-19-2017, 03:02 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by nbducksfan19 View Post
Say what? if you are gonna argue at least have some of the facts straight...
don't troll him. He admitted he made an incorrect assumption. Don't get me wrong, the "Ducks are screwed" posts are getting old, but if more people admitted when they were wrong or made a mistake, this board would be 10x better.

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Old
06-19-2017, 03:03 PM
  #646
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don't troll him. He admitted he made an incorrect assumption. Don't get me wrong, the "Ducks are screwed" posts are getting old, but if more people admitted when they were wrong or made a mistake, this board would be 10x better.
statement was already withdrawn - you're right, good poster.

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06-19-2017, 03:03 PM
  #647
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My question to ducks fans is do you believe GMBM left vatanen and Manson exposed based on a handshake deal with GMGM or do you believe the deal is signed and just waiting for Wednesdays reveal during the awards ?

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Old
06-19-2017, 03:04 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
There absolutely has to be a trade that was worked out earlier otherwise leaving vatanen and Manson exposed out of error could be enough for GMBM to lose his job. With that being said it still maybe just a handshake deal at this point which allows the possibility of GMGM pulling back and taking a large offer from another team. Unlikely but it is possible.
What if Bieksa just didn't want to waive his NMC, or if Murray had enough respect for him to not ask about it (less likely)

There cannot be an official trade as McPhee said he hasn't made any final decision until he's heard from all teams, it's in GMGMs best interest to make his team good, that's why all the trades are gonna be announced after a selection is made (to see if Vegas fulfilled their condition or not)

Here it is for more proof:
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06-19-2017, 03:05 PM
  #649
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So basically,
either
1) Bieksa has pictures of Murray and nothing could be done
2) nobody wanted Vatanen, or even if true, nobody would offer anything for Manson
so,
GMBob threw up his hands, and said oh well, I tried
or
They made a deal, and Anaheim will send a package worth something between Kerdiles and Vats

The only way the Ducks are held hostage as some hope, is if Bob was held at gunpoint in a warehouse or has lost his mind.
Yes, they will give up something, every team is. Yes it will be a good player(s) because we have more exposed than many teams.

I actually believe it will be a better deal for the Ducks than many think, while still being good for Vegas....it does happen

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Old
06-19-2017, 03:05 PM
  #650
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Edit: Withdrawn


Last edited by 91Fedorov: 06-19-2017 at 03:13 PM.
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