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2017-18 Celtics/NBA Off-Season - Celtics draft Jayson Tatum with #3 pick

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Old
06-19-2017, 03:10 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by BergyDGD View Post
I'm scared we just paved the way for Philly to ascend to the top when GS and Cleveland's reign is over. They were missing a point guard in their rebuilding effort and now we just gave them a key missing piece with Fultz. Embid, Fultz, and Saric are now gonna get to grow together and could become nightmares for the Celtics.
Well, that's the real risk, isn't it?

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06-19-2017, 03:12 PM
  #77
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I read that post as sarcasm.

And, even if it's not, nowhere does it say THAT is the reason for the trade.
So, it was mentioned on the sports hub last week when the rumors started to swirl that cap considerations were a factor. Given that Mazz has a strong connection to Wyc, and that Jimmy Stewart has some Celtic connections, it wouldn't have been mentioned if it wasn't at least a consideration.

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06-19-2017, 03:20 PM
  #78
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Well, that's the real risk, isn't it?
That and Tatum is a bust while Sac wins the lottery in '19 and all we get is pick in the late 20s.

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06-19-2017, 03:25 PM
  #79
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That and Tatum is a bust while Sac wins the lottery in '19 and all we get is pick in the late 20s.
Yep. Good times.

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06-19-2017, 03:36 PM
  #80
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Old
06-19-2017, 03:36 PM
  #81
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So, it was mentioned on the sports hub last week when the rumors started to swirl that cap considerations were a factor. Given that Mazz has a strong connection to Wyc, and that Jimmy Stewart has some Celtic connections, it wouldn't have been mentioned if it wasn't at least a consideration.
"A" factor? Big difference from "the" factor, no?

Look, it's gravy. If you can move down and still get the guy you want, it's certainly not a negative to save additional money on the cap. Is it? Especially for a team like the C's that appear to be juggling multiple other moves that COULD have them bumping up against it.

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06-19-2017, 03:37 PM
  #82
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Pick 3 will get swung to chicago for Butler and then in a few years we'll be trying to dish our top pick to Chicago for the player they draft this year

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06-19-2017, 03:45 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Seidenbergy View Post
"A" factor? Big difference from "the" factor, no?

Look, it's gravy. If you can move down and still get the guy you want, it's certainly not a negative to save additional money on the cap. Is it? Especially for a team like the C's that appear to be juggling multiple other moves that COULD have them bumping up against it.
And again, if the reason or even part of the reason they don't want Fultz is due to bumping up against the cap, that's a ******** reason to make a move. Find a way to clear cap by moving pieces like Crowder, Smart/Bradley, or Rozier. There are pieces that can be moved for cap purposes, and passing on a first overall pick because of them is nonsense.

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06-19-2017, 04:12 PM
  #84
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I'd rather stop the bleeding a pick at 3. No more dealing. Whats next 5 and 10 for 15 18 and 20?
It's a top heavy draft. There's a lot of talent in that top 10. There's nothing " bleeding " about moving down and getting more picks to pick up talent. This has been a sweetheart deal and we're playing with house money right now and still will for a couple more years, during that time, we'll be a contender for the Eastern crown.

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06-19-2017, 04:23 PM
  #85
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And again, if the reason or even part of the reason they don't want Fultz is due to bumping up against the cap, that's a ******** reason to make a move. Find a way to clear cap by moving pieces like Crowder, Smart/Bradley, or Rozier. There are pieces that can be moved for cap purposes, and passing on a first overall pick because of them is nonsense.
The 49ers effed up by trading down one pick, gaining assets, saving some $ on the cap and still getting their guy.

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06-19-2017, 04:52 PM
  #86
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“I think even before the lottery we’ve been evaluating these kids for a couple years and we felt like it was very close with the top handful of players, and we still feel that way,” Ainge said. “We think there’s a really good chance the player we’ll take at 3 is the same player we would have taken at 1. So this was a great opportunity to acquire an impactful asset.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/ce...T6K/story.html

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06-19-2017, 06:27 PM
  #87
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I see other teams see value in the 1st overall pick!

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06-19-2017, 10:01 PM
  #88
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FWIW, the Celtics' biggest need right now is forwards who can create their own shots and make them.

To me, that screams Jayson Tatum.

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06-19-2017, 10:05 PM
  #89
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FWIW, the Celtics' biggest need right now is forwards who can create their own shots and make them.

To me, that screams Jayson Tatum.
Absolutely. The more I look at the options, the more Tatum makes sense. Ainge already said he thinks they're gonna get the guy they would have taken first overall at #3. Maybe he thought he couldn't get away with taking Tatum first overall, so take the extra pick.

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06-20-2017, 06:00 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by PatriceBergeronFan View Post
I see other teams see value in the 1st overall pick!
That's the part that really pisses me off. The protections for Philly. The Celtics were giving up the far more valuable piece in this trade, yet it was Philly that got all the protections. WTF?

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06-20-2017, 06:03 AM
  #91
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Also, for those saying Ainge took the best deal he could get, that's patently false. Ainge himself said in his conference call that he's both gotten and made crazy offers on draft night when teams are more apt to overpay. So I again ask, why the rush to get this done? Why not maximize the asset and get the most you could have possibly gotten?

It seems to me he wanted no part of this pick, and botched the move from the jump. My fear is that he's going to compound this bad move by flipping the third and other assets for Butler. Which would literally be the worst move he could make, IMO.

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06-20-2017, 06:21 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Also, for those saying Ainge took the best deal he could get, that's patently false. Ainge himself said in his conference call that he's both gotten and made crazy offers on draft night when teams are more apt to overpay. So I again ask, why the rush to get this done? Why not maximize the asset and get the most you could have possibly gotten?

It seems to me he wanted no part of this pick, and botched the move from the jump. My fear is that he's going to compound this bad move by flipping the third and other assets for Butler. Which would literally be the worst move he could make, IMO.

feels like making a deal just for the sake of making a deal. To me we basically gave away 1 for 3. thats it. The other pick will be Sacramento's which I'm calling at 15 to 20 now. No incentive for the Lakers to not go all out. If this were the Bruins the board would meltdown. IT is a nice player but we shouldn't give him big money. Fultz was a perfect replacement.

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06-20-2017, 06:25 AM
  #93
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Could have maybe gotten Porzingas with that first overall.

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06-20-2017, 06:31 AM
  #94
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So looks like

1. Ainge with his glut of guards and IT that he wasn't in love enough with Fultz enough to go there

2. He likes another bigger player who can play 3-4 likely Jackson or Tatum (hopefully Tatum)

3. He can get the guy he really wants which limits him to pretty much Philadelphia

All makes sense if Tatum or Jackson is thr player since only at 3 can you get him

If he trades for Butler logic says top 3 would have to be in it

My only issue is the Sacramento pick 1 protection

Everything else works for me

I really want Tatum and a Brown-Tatum duo going forward is enticing

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06-20-2017, 08:00 AM
  #95
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Also, for those saying Ainge took the best deal he could get, that's patently false. Ainge himself said in his conference call that he's both gotten and made crazy offers on draft night when teams are more apt to overpay.
You are wrong again. Just because he said something that may have happened in prior drafts, that doesn't make it true this year. It's one thing if your guy might be available anywhere in the top 10; it's another if he will definitely be going in the top 3-5. His market is limited this year. It may not have been in the prior year(s) he was referencing.

Using your logic, everyone who drops out of college will become a billionaire because Mark Zuckerberg did it.

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So I again ask, why the rush to get this done? Why not maximize the asset and get the most you could have possibly gotten?
1. So I tell you again, it wasn't a rush. He's been working this for over 2 weeks now......even more if you count the work put in when the #1 was just a possibility and not a reality yet.

2. Unless you have some evidence that he was offered more and refused, then he got the most he could've possibly gotten. For you to make your statement, you need at least SOMETHING to indicate someone offered more.

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06-20-2017, 08:07 AM
  #96
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You are wrong again. Just because he said something that may have happened in prior drafts, that doesn't make it true this year. It's one thing if your guy might be available anywhere in the top 10; it's another if he will definitely be going in the top 3-5. His market is limited this year. It may not have been in the prior year(s) he was referencing.

Using your logic, everyone who drops out of college will become a billionaire because Mark Zuckerberg did it.



1. So I tell you again, it wasn't a rush. He's been working this for over 2 weeks now......even more if you count the work put in when the #1 was just a possibility and not a reality yet.

2. Unless you have some evidence that he was offered more and refused, then he got the most he could've possibly gotten. For you to make your statement, you need at least SOMETHING to indicate someone offered more.
He himself said that offers increase the night of the draft when teams get crazy and overpay. By default, doing a deal a week before the draft means he rushed it. What else do you need to hear? You want to play games with semantics and demand proof of better deals, but really, your entire argument is a straw man and you know it. Again, this isn't me saying it. It's Danny Ainge. You disagree, so take it up with him.

If you like the deal, good for you. If you're happy with it, awesome. Personally, I wanted more and feel like Ainge lost this transaction.

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06-20-2017, 08:12 AM
  #97
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fwiw............


The Boston Celtics have agreed to trade the No. 1 overall pick to the Philadelphia 76ers, and that deal is reportedly just the first step in a series of blockbuster moves Danny Ainge is hoping to make.


On ESPN’s “First Take” Monday morning, Stephen A. Smith reported that the Chicago Bulls approached the 76ers about sending Jimmy Butler to Philly in exchange for the No. 3 overall pick. The Sixers turned it down.

Enter the Celtics, who then decided to move back two spots to No. 3 and acquire an additional future first-round pick in the process. ESPN’s Mark Stein reported on Friday that the trade between the Celtics and 76ers is actually a three-team deal where Butler will be headed to Boston. Smith said that is not quite a done deal, but it is said to be the Celtics’ goal.

“The Boston Celtics are planning on acquiring Jimmy Butler,” Smith added. “They don’t know if they’ll be able to, but their hope is that they’ll be able to use the No. 3 pick, get themselves Jimmy Butler, go into free agency and get Gordon Hayward.”


http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/...ard/ar-BBCTuwK

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06-20-2017, 08:19 AM
  #98
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He himself said that offers increase the night of the draft when teams get crazy and overpay. By default, doing a deal a week before the draft means he rushed it. What else do you need to hear? You want to play games with semantics and demand proof of better deals, but really, your entire argument is a straw man and you know it. Again, this isn't me saying it. It's Danny Ainge. You disagree, so take it up with him.

If you like the deal, good for you. If you're happy with it, awesome. Personally, I wanted more and feel like Ainge lost this transaction.
LOL. No. He said it CAN happen. Not that it definitely happens both every year and to every team looking to trade down in the draft. Every draft is different.

Look, I'm admitting it CAN happen......if you have flexibility with where you end up picking in the end. If you want to stay in the top 3, you are obviously limited in who you can deal with. If those two teams aren't among those few willing to overpay to move up, then waiting any longer can actually cause the deal to fall apart or get worse. It works both ways.

You act like Ainge is saying that every team is in the market for the #1 pick and every team is willing to overpay on draft day. Not only is that not what he said, it's clear from the draft's history that this simply doesn't happen, especially in a year where there is no clear cut head and shoulders over everyone else #1 pick.

Rumors the last few days had Philly supposedly looking to deal the pick for a better deal than they gave the Cs. Safe to say if they don't make said deal then it's even more evidence that the Cs didn't settle for less.

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06-20-2017, 08:50 AM
  #99
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LOL. No. He said it CAN happen. Not that it definitely happens both every year and to every team looking to trade down in the draft. Every draft is different.

Look, I'm admitting it CAN happen......if you have flexibility with where you end up picking in the end. If you want to stay in the top 3, you are obviously limited in who you can deal with. If those two teams aren't among those few willing to overpay to move up, then waiting any longer can actually cause the deal to fall apart or get worse. It works both ways.

You act like Ainge is saying that every team is in the market for the #1 pick and every team is willing to overpay on draft day. Not only is that not what he said, it's clear from the draft's history that this simply doesn't happen, especially in a year where there is no clear cut head and shoulders over everyone else #1 pick.

Rumors the last few days had Philly supposedly looking to deal the pick for a better deal than they gave the Cs. Safe to say if they don't make said deal then it's even more evidence that the Cs didn't settle for less.
Again with semantics. Well done!!

You honestly don't think teams call and make offers during the draft EVERY year? Really? Seriously? Stop. Just stop. What you're suggesting is nonsense.

You throw out an option like Philly not moving the pick as an absolute, and all it does is show how flawed your logic is. Maybe they don't get a better offer than what they paid off, sure. That is certainly one possibility. But the part you miss is that maybe Philly values the player they end up selecting MORE than what they could possibly have been offered.

But hey, why let reason get in your way at this point?

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06-20-2017, 09:02 AM
  #100
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Again with semantics. Well done!!
It's clear you don't know what the word semantics means.

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You honestly don't think teams call and make offers during the draft EVERY year? Really? Seriously? Stop. Just stop. What you're suggesting is nonsense.
NEVER said that. Of course teams make offers during the draft. Please point to where I said otherwise. I'll wait.

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You throw out an option like Philly not moving the pick as an absolute, and all it does is show how flawed your logic is. Maybe they don't get a better offer than what they paid off, sure. That is certainly one possibility. But the part you miss is that maybe Philly values the player they end up selecting MORE than what they could possibly have been offered.
Huh? Again I NEVER spoke in absolutes with regard to the Philly trade. All I said was it was a rumor that they were looking to move it. A rumor. And all I said was it would be another piece of evidence. Not absolute anything. Piece of evidence. Period.

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But hey, why let reason get in your way at this point?
Reason. That's all I'm looking for. You are the one arguing that they settled for less when there is ZERO evidence that anyone has or will offer more for the pick.

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