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Jaromir Jagr: The 2009 Alex Kovalev? Theory...

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Old
03-30-2008, 04:22 PM
  #26
oli500
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Considering will be solid in goal and also on defense a guy like Jagr could work out in montreal. Now if Sundin dicide to hit the free agent market hes my first choice, hossa if he dosent sign an extension in pitsburg is my second choice and finaly we have jagr. The habs will have some options this off season.

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03-30-2008, 05:28 PM
  #27
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Because Jagr has said it numerous times that it's New York or Russia.

And there are no similarities between Jagr and Kovalev.

Kovalev just hit 80 pts for the 2nd time in his career and Jagr is the just about the best euro player of all time.

Kovalev dressing room problem? He just gets lazy on himself, hockey fans know this. that's why teams always got rid of him.

Jagr 2 season ago had 123 pts and 97 last year. it's just this year he's off, too many changes imo and he's not the leader anymore.
He said it once and that was reported numerous times by other people... Big difference.

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03-30-2008, 05:36 PM
  #28
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Two words: Hossa

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03-30-2008, 05:40 PM
  #29
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He said it once and that was reported numerous times by other people... Big difference.
go ask ranger fans what jagr has said after his contract is up

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03-30-2008, 06:15 PM
  #30
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Go after replacements for Koivu and Kovalev instead. They're human also they can't play till they're 50.
You develop replacements for guys who are aging, Koivu and Kovalev are going to be around for a few years. It'll be up to Kostitsyns, Maxwell, etc. to step up and be stars when they leave.

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03-30-2008, 07:05 PM
  #31
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You develop replacements for guys who are aging, Koivu and Kovalev are going to be around for a few years. It'll be up to Kostitsyns, Maxwell, etc. to step up and be stars when they leave.
How long do you think 37 year olds are gonna play hockey? You still have to pick up some 30 year old players at a point. Jokinen

How long do you wanna resign Kovalev and Koivu at 36 and 37 years of age? Wouldn't you rather go pick up a 27-33 year that's still got 5-7 years left in the tank?

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03-30-2008, 10:20 PM
  #32
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How long do you think 37 year olds are gonna play hockey? You still have to pick up some 30 year old players at a point. Jokinen

How long do you wanna resign Kovalev and Koivu at 36 and 37 years of age? Wouldn't you rather go pick up a 27-33 year that's still got 5-7 years left in the tank?
Koivu is 33 (34 in November), Kovalev is 35 (just turned, in February).

You don't just case guys off because they hit some number on the calendar. Look at Yzerman, for example. Slowly, Koivu should transition into more of a support role (which has already started) and I hope he does a Steve Yzerman and plays out his career in Montreal, eventually as more of a third line centre type.

Kovalev is 35, but really, he's not exactly slowing down and plays the type of game that could last a few more years at a high level.

Teams should always look to improve, but you don't just bring in guys to replace stars just because of the calendar, you try and develop guys (which we are doing) so there is always a good flow in and out.

Plus, as you say, they are not getting younger. It makes sense to bring in some high end talent and go for it while our core guys are actually still our core. Montreal has shown they're not that far off, especially in the East. This may or may not be our year, but add a few key ingredients and we could challenge with the core we have.

We owe it to a guy like Koivu to try and win with him, not ship him out and start rebuilding again.

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03-30-2008, 10:29 PM
  #33
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This offseason, I think Montreal should send Alex Kovalev off to talk to his buddy Jaromir Jagr and get a sense of whether Jagr could be the 2009 version of himself.

The similarities are insane here, but both are players who are insanely talented and who in recent years have slowed their games, relied on natural skill over hard work and been somewhat of dressing room problems. Clearly, Kovalev figured out what he had to do to get back to form and while it's silly to say Jagr can just "do" the same thing, Kovalev might be able to get a sense of whether or not Jagr wants to.

I could see Jagr wanting to prove people wrong and working with a team that has helped turn the career of one of his friends around in a similar circumstances to make it happen.

He'd also be a bit cheaper, I expect, than someone like Hossa and likely not have many others chasing him around.

Thoughts?
Scoring goals hasn't been an issue this year, character and grit has. Jagr brings very little of what we really need at a high price.

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03-30-2008, 10:51 PM
  #34
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Scoring goals hasn't been an issue this year, character and grit has. Jagr brings very little of what we really need at a high price.
True enough, but the core of my theory was if we could get him cheap and only if we are convinced he is ready to pull a Kovalev.

I mean, a Jagr at the top of his game would make this team very, very, very scary.

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03-30-2008, 10:56 PM
  #35
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I would gladly give u Jagr for Ryder. Without a problem. I want this bum off the team so bad. He's not a leader, and he is just horrible now-adays. Its PMS'ing forward whocries about his girlfriend Nylander. Please Montreal, Take him.

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03-30-2008, 11:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Koivu is 33 (34 in November), Kovalev is 35 (just turned, in February).

You don't just case guys off because they hit some number on the calendar. Look at Yzerman, for example. Slowly, Koivu should transition into more of a support role (which has already started) and I hope he does a Steve Yzerman and plays out his career in Montreal, eventually as more of a third line centre type.

Kovalev is 35, but really, he's not exactly slowing down and plays the type of game that could last a few more years at a high level.

Teams should always look to improve, but you don't just bring in guys to replace stars just because of the calendar, you try and develop guys (which we are doing) so there is always a good flow in and out.

Plus, as you say, they are not getting younger. It makes sense to bring in some high end talent and go for it while our core guys are actually still our core. Montreal has shown they're not that far off, especially in the East. This may or may not be our year, but add a few key ingredients and we could challenge with the core we have.

We owe it to a guy like Koivu to try and win with him, not ship him out and start rebuilding again.
If you know Kovalev's career nothing is ever sure with this guy, just look at last year. Koivu is just getting older and injuries are just gonna make him slower, he is the heart of the team though.
I don't mind resigning them but at a pretty big paycut and short term. As far as rebuilding goes, getting rid of Koivu and Kovalev, Hamrlik once his contract ends, Smolinski, and the rest is part of the rebuilding process. Getting rid of them doesn't mean we're gonna rebuild again, we have our youth in place. And if you wanna bring Jagr as in your post where you gonna fit him and at what cost?

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03-30-2008, 11:02 PM
  #37
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I would gladly give u Jagr for Ryder. Without a problem. I want this bum off the team so bad. He's not a leader, and he is just horrible now-adays. Its PMS'ing forward whocries about his girlfriend Nylander. Please Montreal, Take him.
I'll take Jagr for 1 mill but most Rags fans i speak to still like him. Your complaing about your leading point getting for the past three years. You should be a habs fan.

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03-30-2008, 11:03 PM
  #38
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OT: The Hockey News

Not sure if it's been mentionned elsewhere, but Kovy's on the cover of the latest The Hockey News (Playoff Edition)

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03-30-2008, 11:07 PM
  #39
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If you know Kovalev's career nothing is ever sure with this guy, just look at last year. Koivu is just getting older and injuries are just gonna make him slower, he is the heart of the team though.
I don't mind resigning them but at a pretty big paycut and short term. As far as rebuilding goes, getting rid of Koivu and Kovalev, Hamrlik once his contract ends, Smolinski, and the rest is part of the rebuilding process. Getting rid of them doesn't mean we're gonna rebuild again, we have our youth in place. And if you wanna bring Jagr as in your post where you gonna fit him and at what cost?
Well, obviously, eventually everyone moves on.

However, next year is going to be an interesting one. As you say, Koivu/Kovalev are not getting younger, but they're both under contract and theoretically, neither one should be on the downside of the hill yet.

It's an opportunity year, before we need to make too many tough choices with regards to contracts as the big young guys get into their prime and need big deals.

Jagr, let me be clear, I am only suggesting if there is some sense he is out to prove something and get a fresh start. Kovalev and he are friends, as far as I know, and Kovalev would be a good operative to send in and find out. Gainey, I also trust as a judge of people and he should be able to get that sense. If the sense is that Jagr is happy cashing a check or going to Russia, forget the whole thing. I am talking about this only if perhaps someone can smack some sense into Jagr and put him in a position to rebuild his image.

Jagr would fit logically right where Michael Ryder (who I like, but needs a change of scenery as well) is right now. Take out the 3 million or so we pay Ryder, add in a cap increase and an extra 2-3 million on a one year deal and I think it's a worthwhile risk.

The worst case is, he floats, we send him to Russia mid-season and we waste our cap space in a summer with no big name free agents (IE: it opens back up at the end of the season when some other stars we've been drooling over hit the market).

The best case is, he pulls a Kovalev and we have two of the most skilled players on the planet coming at people in a one-two punch only Pittsburgh can match. Ironically, it's Pittsburgh's old attack, but given the depth of this team, I could see this being deadly.

As I said, I would only suggest this if our brass and Kovalev believe Jagr has something to prove and is willing to re-dedicate himself.

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03-30-2008, 11:11 PM
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The thing is Jagr doesn't have to prove anything anymore, he's basically done it all. Jagr and Kovalev don't play the same style of hockey, Kovalev is more speed and Jagr is more of a mathematical type player, he's almost like a Huge robot. It's too early to have this discussion let's just wait till the off season.

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03-30-2008, 11:18 PM
  #41
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The thing is Jagr doesn't have to prove anything anymore, he's basically done it all. Jagr and Kovalev don't play the same style of hockey, Kovalev is more speed and Jagr is more of a mathematical type player, he's almost like a Huge robot. It's too early to have this discussion let's just wait till the off season.
See, I am not sure I agree on style of play. I also think you could argue Kovalev didn't need to prove much either, but he wanted to. They're still pro athletes with egos and this has been a humbling year for Jagr.

This partly came about watching the Ranger game today and reading that Globe article about Kovalev.

Kovalev claimed he had as a veteran begun thinking more and trying to be a head, and not working hard. He went back, analyzed why he was good when he was young and tried to get back to that.

Both Kovalev and Jagr are big and supremely talented with the puck. They can overwhelm you with strength and dangles, but neither is particularly fast, both slide in and out. They're far more of the Mario Lemieux style than the Pavel Bure style. Neither one will be confused with Ovechkin anytime soon.

The flaw I see in Jagr's game this year is the flaw I saw in Kovalev's game last year and he himself confirmed it in that article. Both float around, both over think players and neither works that hard. Kovalev works hard this year, he moves his feet, he doesn't quit on plays, but he's still a shifty player and isn't all about blazing speed (foot speed, at least).

Jagr is much the same. He can overwhelm you physically, he can deke you out of your jock strap, but he won't just blow by you on the outside that often.

That said, he used to do that kind of thing and that's the key element he's lost in his game. A desire to outwork the opponent. If Kovalev has found that gem at 35, so can Jagr. The question is, does he want to?

If there is even a sniff that he might be willing to put in the effort required, this is the place for him to do it. I think Montreal offers the pressure someone like Kovalev needed. Perhaps that same situation can help Jagr too. As I said, if he's willing to lay it on the line for a one year deal, we owe it to look. There is a window.

More than likely, he cashes a check and goes to Russia, but it couldn't hurt to place a phone call on July 1st, basically.

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03-30-2008, 11:36 PM
  #42
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See, I am not sure I agree on style of play. I also think you could argue Kovalev didn't need to prove much either, but he wanted to. They're still pro athletes with egos and this has been a humbling year for Jagr.

This partly came about watching the Ranger game today and reading that Globe article about Kovalev.

Kovalev claimed he had as a veteran begun thinking more and trying to be a head, and not working hard. He went back, analyzed why he was good when he was young and tried to get back to that.

Both Kovalev and Jagr are big and supremely talented with the puck. They can overwhelm you with strength and dangles, but neither is particularly fast, both slide in and out. They're far more of the Mario Lemieux style than the Pavel Bure style. Neither one will be confused with Ovechkin anytime soon.

The flaw I see in Jagr's game this year is the flaw I saw in Kovalev's game last year and he himself confirmed it in that article. Both float around, both over think players and neither works that hard. Kovalev works hard this year, he moves his feet, he doesn't quit on plays, but he's still a shifty player and isn't all about blazing speed (foot speed, at least).

Jagr is much the same. He can overwhelm you physically, he can deke you out of your jock strap, but he won't just blow by you on the outside that often.

That said, he used to do that kind of thing and that's the key element he's lost in his game. A desire to outwork the opponent. If Kovalev has found that gem at 35, so can Jagr. The question is, does he want to?

If there is even a sniff that he might be willing to put in the effort required, this is the place for him to do it. I think Montreal offers the pressure someone like Kovalev needed. Perhaps that same situation can help Jagr too. As I said, if he's willing to lay it on the line for a one year deal, we owe it to look. There is a window.

More than likely, he cashes a check and goes to Russia, but it couldn't hurt to place a phone call on July 1st, basically.
Jagr at 35 finished with 96 points. Jagr will retire with 2 cups, best euro player ever (points wise) and 7 nhl records.

Kovalev was supposed to be this great hockey player, and i beleive he's really good but his stats don't prove that because of his work ethic. Only twice over 80pts in his career.

Jagr loves New York, the coach loves him also and he's wearing the "C". If he decides to stay in the NHL, he's not gonna resign anywhere else. Would Koivu resign somewhere else? i doubt it.

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03-30-2008, 11:51 PM
  #43
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Jagr loves New York, the coach loves him also and he's wearing the "C". If he decides to stay in the NHL, he's not gonna resign anywhere else. Would Koivu resign somewhere else? i doubt it.
Well, he's on the verge of getting run out of town there, so I am not so sure. I think you're right, likely Rangers or Russia, but again, I am not suggesting we trade the farm. Just place a call on July 1st.

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03-31-2008, 02:40 AM
  #44
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The thing is Jagr doesn't have to prove anything anymore, he's basically done it all. Jagr and Kovalev don't play the same style of hockey, Kovalev is more speed and Jagr is more of a mathematical type player, he's almost like a Huge robot. It's too early to have this discussion let's just wait till the off season.

Jagr just doesnt cut it anymore. His slow style of play kills NY. I'm sure alot of NY fans like him, but I don't. He just doesn't care anymore about the game. I just want to let him go and move on from the Jagr era, sadly our GM is going to keep blowing him for the next year or two. Our coach runs EVERYTHING through Jagr, but its really his teammates on the line that actually do anything... points arent everything.. i dare you to watch Jagr in any game and see he just skates in a circle for about 15 minutes a game and gives the puck away.

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03-31-2008, 02:58 AM
  #45
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Jagr just doesnt cut it anymore. His slow style of play kills NY. I'm sure alot of NY fans like him, but I don't. He just doesn't care anymore about the game. I just want to let him go and move on from the Jagr era, sadly our GM is going to keep blowing him for the next year or two. Our coach runs EVERYTHING through Jagr, but its really his teammates on the line that actually do anything... points arent everything.. i dare you to watch Jagr in any game and see he just skates in a circle for about 15 minutes a game and gives the puck away.
2nd in your team in scoring, what's everyone else doing?

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03-31-2008, 03:49 AM
  #46
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Jagr just doesnt cut it anymore. His slow style of play kills NY. I'm sure alot of NY fans like him, but I don't. He just doesn't care anymore about the game. I just want to let him go and move on from the Jagr era, sadly our GM is going to keep blowing him for the next year or two. Our coach runs EVERYTHING through Jagr, but its really his teammates on the line that actually do anything... points arent everything.. i dare you to watch Jagr in any game and see he just skates in a circle for about 15 minutes a game and gives the puck away.
I think if the price is right, we go after him for 1 year at $5 mil (OR 2-3 years IF Montreal is not going after Lecavalier in Summer of 2009 ).

Jagr in montreal can pull a Selanne or a "07-08 Kovalev", imo...

OR, save all the $$$ for Komisarek, Pleks, re-signing Kovalev, re-signing Koivu, A. Kosts...

Hossa? forget it...he'll cost too much (might as well go after Lecavalier, who is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better fit in Montreal).

NEXT YEAR:
Jagr/Higgs - Pleks - Kovalev
Higgins/Jagr - Koivu - A.Kosts


No...?!!


p.s.: I think Sergei Kostitsyn can be, should be a REGULAR top 6 forward next year, so...maybe we don't need to sign a Jagr or a Hossa?! (maybe we should just wait for Lecavalier instead! and empty the bank account!).


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03-31-2008, 08:32 AM
  #47
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at this point, with the way Kost/Kost jr/pleks/higgins are developping, I think i'd rather see the habs sign a guy like jagr to a 2 years deal (5-6 million) than locking up Hossa long-term.

Kost jr- Pleks- Jagr
Kost- Grabovski- Kovalev
Higgins- Koivu- Streit
Kosto- Chipchura- Lats
lapierre

I'd be pretty happy with that forward line-up for next season...

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03-31-2008, 09:28 AM
  #48
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I think Jagr is a guy that could be rejuvenated in the Habs more offensive system. He seems frustrted in Renny's system. I'd try and get him for 12-13 mil on a 2 year deal. Stick him with Koivu and Higgins and he gets minimum 30-50-80 and gives you 2 potent lines and a strong 3rd(S.Kostytsyn Latendresse plus whoever).

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03-31-2008, 09:42 AM
  #49
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My only beef with this ex-lover of the mullet is that he might be bad for the team spirit.

Without Lemieux, Jagr's teams have always been, well, underperforming.

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