HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Kuznetsov 8 year extension

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2017, 12:29 PM
  #101
trick9
Registered User
 
trick9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,089
vCash: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Interesting angle on quality of teammates. Without knowing his winger situation, it would be tough for me to peg a reasonable point target, but I'd have to agree that 65 points would likely be a fairly large disappointment if he gets PP1 minutes.
Agreed.

Sadly, the 65 points you mentioned is about the same as you can expect from Ovechkin these days. He's had 71 and 69 the last 2 seasons and that's while sharing the ice with a top-5 center pretty much all the time during that span. If he gets moved to play with Eller, does he crack even 60 points next season?

trick9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 12:37 PM
  #102
philip
dismember
 
philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: England
Posts: 493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trick9 View Post
Agreed.

Sadly, the 65 points you mentioned is about the same as you can expect from Ovechkin these days. He's had 71 and 69 the last 2 seasons and that's while sharing the ice with a top-5 center pretty much all the time during that span. If he gets moved to play with Eller, does he crack even 60 points next season?
I don't think Ovechkin gets 70 points again, do you? £9.5m

Maybe if he sheds some weight, moves more and re-discovers the dynamism that saw him score all those highlight reel goals down the years, but sadly nowadays it's a the one timer or the attempt at the dangle past a defenseman.

philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 12:41 PM
  #103
trick9
Registered User
 
trick9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,089
vCash: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip View Post
I don't think Ovechkin gets 70 points again, do you? £9.5m

Maybe if he sheds some weight, moves more and re-discovers the dynamism that saw him score all those highlight reel goals down the years, but sadly nowadays it's a the one timer or the attempt at the dangle past a defenseman.
Nope, that's why i would rather see him traded. He still has tremendous value around the league but it's diminishing quickly. This might actually be the last season he'd bring back serious value through a hockey trade. Also think both this team and him could really use a change.

If he stays, i don't really care how much he scores in the regular season as long as they make the Playoffs. It's the Playoffs when he needs to be at his best.

trick9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 01:43 PM
  #104
Coldplay619
Registered User
 
Coldplay619's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trick9 View Post
Agreed.

Sadly, the 65 points you mentioned is about the same as you can expect from Ovechkin these days. He's had 71 and 69 the last 2 seasons and that's while sharing the ice with a top-5 center pretty much all the time during that span. If he gets moved to play with Eller, does he crack even 60 points next season?
His ice time will go up this season, played 18 minutes per game last year.

If he played his usual 20 minutes per game he would have been at around 75 points by my calculations.

Playing with Kuznetsov will help, Kuzy fits his style more than Backstrom does these days.

It's unfortunate that Barry didn't realize that last year.

Coldplay619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 02:06 PM
  #105
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,531
vCash: 500
Kuz had better perform or he will quickly become the town villain (and rightly so). Not caring about the team's cap situation is one thing if you are confident that you can carry a load. We'll see.

Capsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 02:17 PM
  #106
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
Kuz had better perform or he will quickly become the town villain (and rightly so). Not caring about the team's cap situation is one thing if you are confident that you can carry a load. We'll see.
Oshie and Orlov didn't do the Caps any favours, why should Kuznetsov?

um is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 03:10 PM
  #107
Dr John Carlson
Light is all over us
 
Dr John Carlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,705
vCash: 50
Still surprised that people have more issue with this contract than the Oshie deal. The Oshie deal is definitely a fairer AAV but also comes with considerably more risk due to age/injury concerns/potential for regression.

Dr John Carlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 03:32 PM
  #108
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
 
Jags's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kent Island, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr John Carlson View Post
Still surprised that people have more issue with this contract than the Oshie deal. The Oshie deal is definitely a fairer AAV but also comes with considerably more risk due to age/injury concerns/potential for regression.
The back half of Oshie's deal is movable. All he has to do is curb his recklessness with his body a bit and his game can age very well. There's no reason he can't have the same type of longevity we're seeing in Williams.

He's the type of player a team looks for at deadline time. His 10-team NMC, reduced salary, the growing salary cap, and his desire to win make trading him a few years down the line doable.

I agree that Kuznetsov's may be a safer long-term bet, but there are concerns with him, too.

Jags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 03:39 PM
  #109
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jags View Post
The back half of Oshie's deal is movable. All he has to do is curb his recklessness with his body a bit and his game can age very well. There's no reason he can't have the same type of longevity we're seeing in Williams.

He's the type of player a team looks for at deadline time. His 10-team NMC, reduced salary, the growing salary cap, and his desire to win make trading him a few years down the line doable.

I agree that Kuznetsov's may be a safer long-term bet, but there are concerns with him, too.
A 34 year old Oshie is more moveable than a 29 year old Kuznetsov? even for the extra 2 million you can't possibly believe that.

um is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 03:43 PM
  #110
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
 
Jags's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kent Island, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
A 34 year old Oshie is more moveable than a 29 year old Kuznetsov? even for the extra 2 million you can't possibly believe that.
It's not one versus the other. I didn't say it's more movable than Kuznetsov's. I just said it's movable.

A team on the rise like Toronto could easily take on a deal like that for Oshie at 34 at the TDL if they're making a run. It's movable.

It's not an anchor tied around our necks like Orpik's deal. At least not yet.

Jags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 04:16 PM
  #111
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 24,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr John Carlson View Post
Still surprised that people have more issue with this contract than the Oshie deal. The Oshie deal is definitely a fairer AAV but also comes with considerably more risk due to age/injury concerns/potential for regression.
Like I said in the Orlov thread, I'd much rather pay for what a player will do in his prime rather than pay for a what a player did in their prime.

Hivemind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 04:35 PM
  #112
SpinningEdge
Registered User
 
SpinningEdge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 4,396
vCash: 500
I know a lot of people are talking about Ovi being traded - not worth his contract now.... etc - but as a small/semi-hockey fan who became a super die hard hockey fan after I moved here to D.C. When Ovi started his career here I feel like the Caps winning a Cup or going after one has to be with him or it won't feel the same. He made the Caps into a small hockey town into a place that sells out arenas all over the US. Hell, I love hockey so much I don't miss any games at all during the season, playoffs, etc any more.

If Caps moved Ovi for ANYONE it just wouldn't be the same for me as a fan.... as long as he can play I want him in a Caps sweater trying to win the Cup. After that a discussion can be made about his contract. I'd be happy/stoked regardless if we won a Cup - but seeing Ovi hold the Cup would be so much sweeter and a feeling of accomplishment - AND like the past decade wasn't a failure.

Anyone else feel this way? We can talk about changing the core, etc - but this whole thing is still the Ovi era until he's gone.


Last edited by SpinningEdge: 07-03-2017 at 04:50 PM.
SpinningEdge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 08:33 PM
  #113
RandyHolt
Registered Loser
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 30,075
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikkonen View Post
Eller, Johansson, Orpik - these guys are roster players to drop.
....
Nice call on MJ being a player to drop

I see BMac trying to make this his Backstrom contract.

RandyHolt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 09:54 PM
  #114
CapitalsCupFantasy
Wasted opportunities
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 37,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemind View Post
Like I said in the Orlov thread, I'd much rather pay for what a player will do in his prime rather than pay for a what a player did in their prime.
You're making a rather large assumption that 92 will "do it" to the tune of 7.8 mil per in production, but yeah in a perfect world you're not paying for past performances. However, you can look around the league and see it often doesn't work that way and there's not a lot to do differently when you're trying to hold on to the last vestiges of a playoff team.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2017, 02:00 AM
  #115
Bananas
****
 
Bananas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,125
vCash: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jags View Post
It's not one versus the other. I didn't say it's more movable than Kuznetsov's. I just said it's movable.

A team on the rise like Toronto could easily take on a deal like that for Oshie at 34 at the TDL if they're making a run. It's movable.

It's not an anchor tied around our necks like Orpik's deal. At least not yet.
A whole hell of a lot can happen to a player over four years in their thirties - let alone 8. This league chews up and spits out players who lose the ability to skate and Oshie is not fleet of foot...today. There's a good chance the Oshie deal blows up in our faces. I like it a lot in the near term, however.

Kuzy on the other hand is gonna start carrying this franchise or stand idly by as it falls into the abyss.

Kuznetsov holds the keys to this franchise now imo...his upside is top 5 center and as long as Nicky is still up there as well we have the top two centers to compete.

Our top end players are gonna have to earn their paychecks this year. Who knows maybe this will galvanize them to raise their games? We're definitely gonna need it and I think there's a good chance that Kuzy leads the charge...

Bananas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2017, 07:52 AM
  #116
HecticGlow
Registered User
 
HecticGlow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 507
vCash: 500
Kuzy spent most of the last two seasons playing with Williams, and more often than not with Mojo. He was inconsistent playing with Ovechkin, Oshie and Bura - which is troubling considering these are his wingers next season.

He also was put on PP1 for a stretch last season, but they swapped him again for Mojo when Kuzy wasn't getting it done on PP1. Maybe he'll do better in that position next season if given a longer look, but I also think it's possible Vrana beats him to that spot at some point in the year.

I think it's a significant overpayment for a guy who got 59 points last season (with great teammates and usually not facing top opponents) who so far hasn't been trusted to play more than about 15 minutes a game. If he's getting 1C money, he better produce like a 1C and be fighting Backstrom for ice time.

HecticGlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.