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And now... Kostitsyn or Vanek?

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Old
04-04-2008, 01:03 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
That is a pretty impressive first round if you ask me. I think you are overrating Kostitsyn and underrating many players on that list.
I think its easily one of the best draft in NHL history, Im really not underrating that draft.. I know guys like Richards, Parise, Brown.. They are all highly talended and play with fire but they dont have the package Andrei has.. Kost has everything to become one of the best wingers in the NHL, he just has to play with the same fire as the guys named above and you will see the difference in term of skills and potential appears..

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04-04-2008, 02:53 AM
  #52
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Marc-Andre Fleury - -Franchise Goalie...YES
Eric Staal - has already had 100 point season and won a stanley cup. YES
Nathan Horton - Like Jokinen this kid has to get out of Florida to show what he can really do. Hes a power forward with good hands YES
Nikolai Zherdev - not debateable at all. If he was playing with Kovalev and Plekanec i guarantee he'd have more points than Kostitsyn. Yes
Thomas Vanek - Kostitsyn or Vanek...HAHAHAHA...YES
Milan Michalek - it's debateable. if ya want offense ya go with Kostitsyn. If ya want defense and a better overall game Michalek. i'll take Kostitsyn on this one. NO
Ryan Suter - Debatable, very close, depends on what your teams needs are...i like Kostitsyn better though so NO
Braydon Coburn - NO
Dion Phaneuf - YES. I'd take Phaneuf first overall in this draft.
---------------
Jeff Carter - YES. A big skilled center. Hes ahead of kostitsyn for sure
Hugh Jessiman - NO (easy)
Dustin Brown - I like Kostitsyn better. NO
Brent Seabrook - YES. a future captain...
Robert Nilsson - NO
Steve Bernier - NO
Zach Parise - YES. Man we'd be sick with plekanec, parise and Koivu as our top 3 centres.
Eric Fehr - NO
Ryan Getzlaf - YES. I cant believe u think this is debateable. Did u watch the playoffs last year and the entire season this year?
Brent Burns - YES. I'd love to have this guy as our 4th D. markov-komi Hammer-Burns, that would be SICK!
Mark Stuart - NO
Marc-Antoine Pouliot - NO
Ryan Kesler - NO
Mike Richards - YES. he does everything. I was hoping the habs picked him even though he wasn't rated that high. YES
Anthony Stewart - NO
Brian Boyle - NO
Jeff Tambellini - NO
Corey Perry - YES. this isn't close or debateable. Perry's already won a cup and was an all-star this year. i dont see how u'd take Kostitsyn over Perry.
Patrick Eaves - NO
Shawn Belle - NO

I'm not going to include Bergeron, or Weber even though i'd take them over Kostitsyn. These guys werent first rounders so ya cant blame Gainey for not picking them. In total i'd take 13 guys over Kostitsyn if the draft was held today. Kostitsyn in my opinion will be a guy who on the top of his game can put up 70-75 points in a break out year. IMO hes not a top talent like some guys like Getzlaf, Parise, Vanek etc but he has come along nicely this year. He'll never be a go to guy but should anywhere from 3-5 in scoring for the habs for the next lil while. One HUGE thing about Kostitsyn is we drafted Sergei. i wonder if he would have been picked if we hadn't of drafted Andrei earlier. I'm really looking forward to see these 2 play together in the future.!

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Old
04-04-2008, 03:05 AM
  #53
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I'm just wondering if he there was a chance he would have been available in round 2, since everyone was so turned off by his condition.

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04-04-2008, 03:05 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by jordy View Post
Brent Burns - YES. I'd love to have this guy as our 4th D. markov-komi Hammer-Burns, that would be SICK!
I agree with everything you said except the fact that Burns would be our 2nd D

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04-04-2008, 03:17 AM
  #55
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I think some people are selling Fleury a bit short here.

He had a pretty good year last year, and started off rough this year but he was awesome before his injury, and he was the second star of March after Ovechkin, he's been great since he came back.

We'll see how he does in the playoffs, but he's still young. He's 23, guys like Ryan Miller didn't start in the NHL until they were 26, and yet people are writing Fleury because of a bit of inconsistency.

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04-04-2008, 05:49 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hemskyy View Post
I smell Homer. You really think Konstitsyn is debatable with Perry, Getzlaf, Brown, Parise, and RICHARDS? What in god's name are you smoking?
And you're just visiting. Trust me -- it's non F***ing stop around here.

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04-04-2008, 06:10 AM
  #57
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Andrei at number 10 is perfect. he's not in the top 5. I'd take 9 players before him.
Staal, Phaneuf, Richards, Getzlaf, Brown, Horton, Vanek, Parise and Bergeron

and, on the same level, you find Weber (if not of his injury that slowed him this year I would have taken him before kost.), Burns, Seabrook, Perry, etc...

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Old
04-04-2008, 06:32 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
About Ribeiro, I also said, before the training camp start, that he would be traded at some point during the year and that Plekanec would replace him with ease.. Ribs has been traded at the end of the training camp and I dont know for you but personally, I dont miss him 1 sec..

About Perezhogin, Ive been wrong.. Nothing more to say, he is a major desapointment and I didnt think the stick swinging incident would hurt his development that way, but dont be surprised to see him come back in the NHL at some point if the money offered is interesting, this kid has some serious skills..

About Higgins, he sure was dominant in the first half of the last season before his injury, can you deny it? Personally Ive always said he would become a solid top 6 in the NHL, not more, not less..

About Komisarek, you are totally wrong on the offensive part... Ive never said he would become an offensive defenseman, neither I said he would get much points in his carreer, what is true though is the comparison I made several times and I still do with Scott Stevens regarding the physical and defensive part of the game... As I always said, I never knew the Stevens getting ton of points, Im not old enough, I knew Scott Stevens as an intimidating presence on the ice punishing his opponents physically and playing absolutely great defensively.. I also like Komi's leadership and attitude.. Sure Komi doesnt hit open ice much like Stevens used to do, but he still is one of the toughest defenseman to play against in this league and his physical prensence as well as his defensive play in our zone is priceless..

Do you want the list of things Ive been right on? Dont start that little useless war..
I have to praise you. You were the only one on this board who was right about Plekanec. Most posters were willing to trade him for a bucket of pucks and I can remember many of them ridiculing you because of your stand. They've conveniently forgotten but I haven't.

Although I think you're overstating your case with Kostitsyn, one thing most posters are forgetting is right now Andrei is part of one the best lines in the NHL. There might be one or two other lines that are better. Granted, he's getting help from his two linemates. But can anyone say that about the other forwards on that list?

The skating, passing and stickhandling of this line just amazes me. And I was around to watch the Lafleur, Lemaire and Shutt line.

Maybe you can't go solely on stats. Maybe you have to take into consideration the effect that player has on his team mates. These three players are simply wonderful to watch together. Maybe Kostitsyn did have a small part in bringing out the best in Kovalev. I think he did and you have to wonder what is that worth to the Habs? And for those posters who will claim that Kovalev is carrying this line, don't forget that the Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Higgins line at the of last year was our best line.

NHA, I wouldn't say that Kostitsyn is a top five pick but then again I honestly wouldn't trade him for anyone on that list except for maybe Phaneuf.


Last edited by onice: 04-04-2008 at 06:41 AM.
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Old
04-04-2008, 06:35 AM
  #59
Blades 0f Steel
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
A.Kost could have been easily a top 5 pick if the draft was redone, the kid is just that crazy skilled.. Montreal the poster was absolutely right when saying he was the most skilled prospect we drafted for years..
?

When did he say that? I clearly remember him saying Perezhogin was the better offensive player because I debated that statement.




I'm not going to touch anything else in that post because it's not worth mentioning.


Last edited by Blades 0f Steel: 04-04-2008 at 06:40 AM.
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Old
04-04-2008, 07:07 AM
  #60
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Fleury < AK46
Eric Staal > AK46
Horton = AK46
Nik Zherdev < AK46
Vanek = AK46
Michalek > AK46
Ryan Suter --- Difficult to compare defense and forward
Coburn < AK46
Phaneuf > AK46
Carter = AK46
Jessiman < AK46
Dustin Brown > AK46
Seabrook --- Difficult to compare defense and forward
Nilsson < AK46
Bernier < AK46
Parise > AK46
Ferh < AK46
Getzlaf > AK46
Burns --- Difficult to compare defense and forward
Stuart < AK46
Pouliot < AK46
Kesler < AK46
Richards > AK46
Stewart < AK46
Boyle < AK46 (for now....)
Tambellini < AK46
Perry < AK46
Eaves < AK46
Shawn Belle < AK46


When I say difficult to compare defense and forward it's because those D-man will have the same utility in defense than AK46 in offense in my opinion...

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Old
04-04-2008, 07:25 AM
  #61
HardcoreHab
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Why the hell rank them? Can't we just be glad that this pick no longer looks like a bust? We got a really good player with our pick. That's all anyone can hope for.

That's an impressive class.

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Old
04-04-2008, 08:38 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
1 Pittsburgh Marc-Andre Fleury G Cape Breton Screaming Eagles (QMJHL) 138 0 4 4 4
2 Carolina Eric Staal C Peterborough Petes (OHL) 245 86 115 201 189
3 Florida Nathan Horton C Oshawa Generals (OHL) 208 73 58 131 207
4 Columbus Nikolai Zherdev R CSKA Moscow (Russia) 201 50 70 120 130
5 Buffalo Thomas Vanek W U. of Minnesota (NCAA) 163 68 64 132 112
6 San Jose Milan Michalek W Ceske Budejovice HC (Czech) 161 44 58 102 85
7 Nashville Ryan Suter D U.S. Junior National Team (Intl) 153 9 31 40 120
8 Atlanta Braydon Coburn D Portland Winter Hawks (WHL) 58 3 9 12 50
9 Calgary Dion Phaneuf D Red Deer Rebels (WHL) 161 37 62 99 191
10 Mtl. Canadiens Andrei Kostitsyn R CSKA Moscow (Russia) 34 3 11 14 8
11 Philadelphia Jeff Carter C Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (OHL) 143 37 42 79 88
12 NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman R Dartmouth College (NCAA)
13 Los Angeles Dustin Brown R Guelph Storm (OHL) 191 32 47 79 150
14 Chicago Brent Seabrook D Lethbridge Hurricanes (WHL) 150 9 47 56 164
15 NY Islanders Robert Nilsson C Leksands IF (SEL) 57 7 14 21 30
16 San Jose Steve Bernier R Moncton Wildcats (QMJHL) 101 29 29 58 64
17 New Jersey Zach Parise C U. of North Dakota (NCAA) 163 45 49 94 58
18 Washington Eric Fehr R Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL) 25 2 1 3 10
19 Anaheim Ryan Getzlaf C Calgary Hitmen (WHL) 139 39 58 97 88
20 Minnesota Brent Burns D Brampton Battalion (OHL) 185 12 35 47 70
21 Boston Mark Stuart D Colorado College (NCAA) 32 1 2 3 24
22 Edmonton Marc-Antoine Pouliot C Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL) 54 5 7 12 18
23 Vancouver Ryan Kesler C Ohio State University (NCAA) 158 18 26 44 135
24 Philadelphia Mike Richards C Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 138 21 45 66 117
25 Florida Anthony Stewart R Kingston Frontenacs (OHL) 20 2 2 4 4
26 Los Angeles Brian Boyle F St. Sebastian's [Mass. H.S.]
27 Los Angeles Jeff Tambellini L U. of Michigan (NCAA) 48 3 10 13 16
28 Anaheim Corey Perry R London Knights (OHL) 138 30 39 69 105
29 Ottawa Patrick Eaves F Boston College (NCAA) 131 34 27 61 58
30 St. Louis Shawn Belle D Tri-City Americans (WHL) 9 0 1 1 0

Who in that list would you seriously take over A.Kostitsyn?

Fleury? wanna laugh?
Eric Stall? Yes, ok..
Horton? Debatable..
Nik Zherdev? Debatable..
Vanek? I take Andrei..
Michalek? Andrei is more skilled..
Ryan Suter? Debatable..
Coburn? Never..
Phaneuf? Yes ok..
Carter? No way!!
Jessiman? Who?
Dustin Brown? Andrei is more skilled..
Seabrook? lol
Nilsson? heuh.. no..
Bernier? lol
Parise? Debatable..
Ferh?
Getzlaf? To me its debatable but some wont agree..
Burns? No
Stuart? No
Pouliot?
Kesler? No..
Richards? Debatable, I take Kostitsyn easily..
Stewart? naaah
Boyle? Naaah
Tambellini? Naah
Perry? Debatable, I but take A.Kost in a heartbeat..
Eaves? Patrick his first name?
Shawn Belle? ..

A.Kost could have been easily a top 5 pick if the draft was redone, the kid is just that crazy skilled.. Montreal the poster was absolutely right when saying he was the most skilled prospect we drafted for years..
You'll feel the flames for this one my friend. I wasn't even trying to debate that Kost was better than these players, simply a strong pick and got sent out to dry. Personally I think that Parise and Getzlaf are better, but Parise is a small shifty player that had tremendous offensive upside and we had Ribs at the time no need for two identical players. Getzlaf is a surprise to most nobody could reasonably expect him to develop as well and as fast as he did.

I also think that you're under estimating a lot of players. There were "better" picks if Gainey was able to see in the future; but personally I see Pleks as a good first rounder, we didn't get a steal; and we didn't waste a first rounder. We got a strong player in a strong draft.

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Old
04-04-2008, 09:36 AM
  #63
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I love AKost - but one year does is not enough in most cases. Some of these guys have been in the league for three of four years. But waht a deep draft!!!

Fleury = AK46
Eric Staal > AK46
Horton >= AK46
Nik Zherdev < AK46
Vanek > AK46
Michalek > AK46
Ryan Suter = AK46
Coburn < AK46
Phaneuf > AK46
Carter = AK46
Jessiman < AK46
Dustin Brown > AK46
Seabrook > AK46
Nilsson < AK46
Bernier < AK46
Parise > AK46
Ferh < AK46
Getzlaf > AK46
Burns >= AK46
Stuart < AK46
Pouliot < AK46
Kesler = AK46
Richards > AK46
Stewart < AK46
Boyle < AK46
Tambellini < AK46
Perry >AK46
Eaves < AK46
Shawn Belle < AK46

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Old
04-04-2008, 10:13 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The debate over the 2003 1st round is like debating which chick is hotter between Alba, Johansson, Biel, Cuthbert before the ugly hair cut, etc
I'll go with Biel. Alba and Cuthbert have herpes, Johansson is a dog without makeup.

Biel shows her nakedness without any hesitation, so she wins.

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04-04-2008, 10:13 AM
  #65
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Vanek is a very good player,a goal scorer that lost his set up men.It's a hard season and the contract he signed doesn't help him either... well hockey wise!!
Yeah, it's hard to compare AK46 to Vanek right now. I love watching AK46, but take away Kovalev this year and I'm not sure how well he would have done. You can see the development taking place and his progression this year, but I would not want to lose Kovalev and place the expectation on AK46 that Vanek had placed on him. The contract was also ludicrous, well done Lowe.

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Old
04-04-2008, 10:19 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Wow you need help. Brown, Parise, Getzlaf, Richards and Perry are debatable? And Brent Burns is a flat out no?

You need to start watching hockey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyy View Post
I smell Homer. You really think Konstitsyn is debatable with Perry, Getzlaf, Brown, Parise, and RICHARDS? What in god's name are you smoking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dead View Post
29 other teams other than the Habs, watch some hockey.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
1 Pittsburgh Marc-Andre Fleury G Cape Breton Screaming Eagles (QMJHL) 138 0 4 4 4
2 Carolina Eric Staal C Peterborough Petes (OHL) 245 86 115 201 189
3 Florida Nathan Horton C Oshawa Generals (OHL) 208 73 58 131 207
4 Columbus Nikolai Zherdev R CSKA Moscow (Russia) 201 50 70 120 130
5 Buffalo Thomas Vanek W U. of Minnesota (NCAA) 163 68 64 132 112
6 San Jose Milan Michalek W Ceske Budejovice HC (Czech) 161 44 58 102 85
7 Nashville Ryan Suter D U.S. Junior National Team (Intl) 153 9 31 40 120
8 Atlanta Braydon Coburn D Portland Winter Hawks (WHL) 58 3 9 12 50
9 Calgary Dion Phaneuf D Red Deer Rebels (WHL) 161 37 62 99 191
10 Mtl. Canadiens Andrei Kostitsyn R CSKA Moscow (Russia) 34 3 11 14 8
11 Philadelphia Jeff Carter C Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (OHL) 143 37 42 79 88
12 NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman R Dartmouth College (NCAA)
13 Los Angeles Dustin Brown R Guelph Storm (OHL) 191 32 47 79 150
14 Chicago Brent Seabrook D Lethbridge Hurricanes (WHL) 150 9 47 56 164
15 NY Islanders Robert Nilsson C Leksands IF (SEL) 57 7 14 21 30
16 San Jose Steve Bernier R Moncton Wildcats (QMJHL) 101 29 29 58 64
17 New Jersey Zach Parise C U. of North Dakota (NCAA) 163 45 49 94 58
18 Washington Eric Fehr R Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL) 25 2 1 3 10
19 Anaheim Ryan Getzlaf C Calgary Hitmen (WHL) 139 39 58 97 88
20 Minnesota Brent Burns D Brampton Battalion (OHL) 185 12 35 47 70
21 Boston Mark Stuart D Colorado College (NCAA) 32 1 2 3 24
22 Edmonton Marc-Antoine Pouliot C Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL) 54 5 7 12 18
23 Vancouver Ryan Kesler C Ohio State University (NCAA) 158 18 26 44 135
24 Philadelphia Mike Richards C Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 138 21 45 66 117
25 Florida Anthony Stewart R Kingston Frontenacs (OHL) 20 2 2 4 4
26 Los Angeles Brian Boyle F St. Sebastian's [Mass. H.S.]
27 Los Angeles Jeff Tambellini L U. of Michigan (NCAA) 48 3 10 13 16
28 Anaheim Corey Perry R London Knights (OHL) 138 30 39 69 105
29 Ottawa Patrick Eaves F Boston College (NCAA) 131 34 27 61 58
30 St. Louis Shawn Belle D Tri-City Americans (WHL) 9 0 1 1 0

Who in that list would you seriously take over A.Kostitsyn?

Fleury? wanna laugh?
Eric Stall? Yes, ok..
Horton? Debatable..
Nik Zherdev? Debatable..
Vanek? I take Andrei..
Michalek? Andrei is more skilled..
Ryan Suter? Debatable..
Coburn? Never..
Phaneuf? Yes ok..
Carter? No way!!
Jessiman? Who?
Dustin Brown? Andrei is more skilled..
Seabrook? lol
Nilsson? heuh.. no..
Bernier? lol
Parise? Debatable..
Ferh?
Getzlaf? To me its debatable but some wont agree..
Burns? No
Stuart? No
Pouliot?
Kesler? No..
Richards? Debatable, I take Kostitsyn easily..
Stewart? naaah
Boyle? Naaah
Tambellini? Naah
Perry? Debatable, I but take A.Kost in a heartbeat..
Eaves? Patrick his first name?
Shawn Belle? ..

A.Kost could have been easily a top 5 pick if the draft was redone, the kid is just that crazy skilled.. Montreal the poster was absolutely right when saying he was the most skilled prospect we drafted for years..
I love Kost but your comments need a dose of reality.

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Old
04-04-2008, 10:37 AM
  #67
FerrisRox
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Wow you need help. Brown, Parise, Getzlaf, Richards and Perry are debatable? And Brent Burns is a flat out no?

You need to start watching hockey.
Agreed.

This is hilariously biased.

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