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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phillips Arena renovations

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Old
07-10-2017, 01:19 PM
  #126
axecrew
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
AHL needs what, Bongo, an NHL Affiliation, as a pre-requisite, the days of an Independent died out when Worcester originally joined the league and the experiences of Baltimore and Binghamton trying that led to them being absolutely disasterous on-ice wise by the time the season ended, the AHL outlawed that practice, and changed the bylaw requiring an affiliation to be active.

Atlanta's ECHL Club is in serious jeopardy if Boston elects to leave at the end of this season, now with Spectra buying Alaska, and placing it in Portland.

Once again you are citing False News...it has been asked and answered multiple times in the AHL section and by the AHL itself, A team must have an affiliation to join the AHL...once in the league NO affiliation is required to continue playing in the AHL and remain an active team.

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07-10-2017, 01:19 PM
  #127
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Based on what happened with Phillips, would it not be likely that the NHL won't go back to Atlanta unless it has a dedicated, hockey-only arena?

Also makes me wonder if other cities in southern markets might be pressured not to take co-deals with separately owned teams from other leagues from now on, too, considering how powerless they were to keep Atlanta there. Are there any current teams down there sharing with NBA teams under separate ownership right now?

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07-10-2017, 01:20 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Vamos Rafa View Post
We could be seeing the end of multi-purpose arenas. The new NBA arenas that opened recently do not have dimensions built for a hockey rink (Sacramento, Brooklyn, and Golden State in the future). You can always easily put a basketball court in a hockey arena but the sightlines just won't be as good as in a basketball arena.
Add Milwaukee to that list

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07-10-2017, 01:33 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by DaBadGuy7 View Post
Ugh, looks like they want less and less people there for the actual game. But of course people will drop hundreds of $$$ on this bar so can't blame the Hawks for doing this.

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07-10-2017, 01:42 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
Based on what happened with Phillips, would it not be likely that the NHL won't go back to Atlanta unless it has a dedicated, hockey-only arena?

Also makes me wonder if other cities in southern markets might be pressured not to take co-deals with separately owned teams from other leagues from now on, too, considering how powerless they were to keep Atlanta there. Are there any current teams down there sharing with NBA teams under separate ownership right now?
The NHL teams that share arenas with an NBA team are as follows:

Avalanche/Nuggets
Blackhawks/Bulls
Bruins/Celtics
Capitals/Wizards
Flyers/76ers
Islanders/Nets
Kings/Lakers & Clippers
Leafs/Raptors
Rangers/Knicks
Red Wings/Pistons
Stars/Mavericks

Of those the Blackhawks/Bulls, Bruins/Celtics, Flyers/76ers, Islanders/Nets, Kings/Clippers, Red Wings/Pistons, and Stars/Mavericks have (as best I can tell) separate ownership groups. AEG owns a minority share of the Lakers, so I didn't consider them to be separate. Of those I think only the Stars/Mavericks would be what most would consider a "southern market" and American Airlines Center is jointly operated by the two teams via Center Operating Company, L.P.

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07-10-2017, 01:53 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Add Milwaukee to that list
Wrong

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07-10-2017, 01:59 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto View Post
The NHL teams that share arenas with an NBA team are as follows:

Avalanche/Nuggets
Blackhawks/Bulls
Bruins/Celtics
Capitals/Wizards
Flyers/76ers
Islanders/Nets
Kings/Lakers & Clippers
Leafs/Raptors
Rangers/Knicks
Red Wings/Pistons
Stars/Mavericks

Of those the Blackhawks/Bulls, Bruins/Celtics, Flyers/76ers, Islanders/Nets, Kings/Clippers, Red Wings/Pistons, and Stars/Mavericks have (as best I can tell) separate ownership groups. AEG owns a minority share of the Lakers, so I didn't consider them to be separate. Of those I think only the Stars/Mavericks would be what most would consider a "southern market" and American Airlines Center is jointly owned by the two teams via Center Operating Company, L.P.
Thanks.

I agree with your conclusion, and I'd tend to say Dallas has become very much a locked-in market where it'd be unlikely the city would let the Stars walk without a strong fight if Cuban somehow sold the Mavericks as well as the arena (does the Stars ownership and Cuban have 50/50 or otherwise equal ownership?) to someone who left the Stars out in the streets like the Hawks and Atlanta did.

Again, one would figure the NHL won't let teams get into a situation where they have no control, whether that be equity or otherwise, in the arena again after Atlanta, so unless the Hawks and Phillips gets sold to a new ownership group (since the NHL would almost certainly refuse to give the current ownership a franchise if they changed their mind and decided they wanted one again) that also wishes to bring in an NHL team (and obviously makes the Phillips a hockey rink again), Atlanta is going to need a new, hockey-only arena to get another team, IMO.

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07-10-2017, 02:14 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
Thanks.

I agree with your conclusion, and I'd tend to say Dallas has become very much a locked-in market where it'd be unlikely the city would let the Stars walk without a strong fight if Cuban somehow sold the Mavericks as well as the arena (does the Stars ownership and Cuban have 50/50 or otherwise equal ownership?) to someone who left the Stars out in the streets like the Hawks and Atlanta did.

Again, one would figure the NHL won't let teams get into a situation where they have no control, whether that be equity or otherwise, in the arena again after Atlanta, so unless the Hawks and Phillips gets sold to a new ownership group (since the NHL would almost certainly refuse to give the current ownership a franchise if they changed their mind and decided they wanted one again) that also wishes to bring in an NHL team (and obviously makes the Phillips a hockey rink again), Atlanta is going to need a new, hockey-only arena to get another team, IMO.
On the first, I'm not sure and I realize I goofed in my reading - AAC is owned by the City of Dallas and operated by Center Operating Partnership. I've edited my post accordingly.

Second, the Hawks and Phillips were sold. ASG sold them in 2015 to an ownership group led by Tony Ressler and that included Grant Hill.

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07-10-2017, 02:20 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto View Post
On the first, I'm not sure and I realize I goofed in my reading - AAC is owned by the City of Dallas and operated by Center Operating Partnership. I've edited my post accordingly.

Second, the Hawks and Phillips were sold. ASG sold them in 2015 to an ownership group led by Tony Ressler and that included Grant Hill.
1) So the city of Dallas would likely have final say in any sale of the AAC? If so, I'd say Dallas is pretty safe.

2) You mean sold again? As in, the ownership that told the Thrashers to get lost don't own the Hawks and Phillips anymore? Guess I don't pay much attention to the NBA, but I thought I'd have heard if that happened.

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07-10-2017, 02:41 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
Wrong
Really??? The new building being built right now is being shared by both the bucks and admirals upon completion??
Bet the people at the Mecca are going to be pissed they spent ALL that money to upgrade their building and locker room areas etc only for the Admirals to leave when the building north of the Bradley Center is done.
I hate it that the people up there lied to me and told me that the bucks were the only tenant of the new building and that they didnt want the admirals in there and that no ice plant was being put in.

Bet the admirals cant wait to get into the new building and see their new locker rooms and state of the art facilities.

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07-10-2017, 02:51 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
1) So the city of Dallas would likely have final say in any sale of the AAC? If so, I'd say Dallas is pretty safe.

2) You mean sold again? As in, the ownership that told the Thrashers to get lost don't own the Hawks and Phillips anymore? Guess I don't pay much attention to the NBA, but I thought I'd have heard if that happened.
1. Correct as AAC's the city's property.

2. Also correct. The ownership group that told the Thrashers to hit the bricks was the Atlanta Spirit Group. It was composed of three subgroups of owners - a group based out of Boston that was headed by Steve Belkin, a group based out of Atlanta, and a group based out of Washington, D.C. headed by Bruce Levenson. In 2010 the Boston side was bought out and the Washington, DC side of the group became the majority holders in ASG with Levenson as the majority holder. After selling the Thrashers to TNSE in 2011, ASG rebranded as Atlanta Hawks LP in March of 2014. In September of that year, the e-mail scandal hit where some rather racially insensitive e-mails sent by Levenson to Hawks GM Danny Ferry were outed. In the wake of that, Levenson first announced he was selling his stake in ASG. That, in turn, turned the other minority owners into saying they want out and the team was completely for sale in January of 2015 and in April, a sale to Ressler was finalized.

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07-10-2017, 03:03 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto View Post
... turned the other minority owners into saying they want out and the team was completely for sale in January of 2015 and in April, a sale to Ressler was finalized.
Indeed. Good riddance to bad rubbish... that Don Waddell managed to land on his feet in the wake of the Thrashers sale I still find disgraceful. That he was a "victim, just doing his j.o.b." my Aunt Fanny. Shouldve been drummed out of the game, a Pariah.

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07-10-2017, 03:30 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Really??? The new building being built right now is being shared by both the bucks and admirals upon completion??
Bet the people at the Mecca are going to be pissed they spent ALL that money to upgrade their building and locker room areas etc only for the Admirals to leave when the building north of the Bradley Center is done.
I hate it that the people up there lied to me and told me that the bucks were the only tenant of the new building and that they didnt want the admirals in there and that no ice plant was being put in.

Bet the admirals cant wait to get into the new building and see their new locker rooms and state of the art facilities.
Your sarcasm is charming but maybe instead of spending two seconds on that, you could've spent two seconds doing a little research instead.

Quote:
Although the new Milwaukee Bucks arena lacks a hockey tenant with Milwaukee Admirals leasing the UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena, the new Bucks-run venue will include a hockey ice rink that meets NHL and NCAA specifications.
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwauke...k-to-host.html

Or how about a picture of inside renderings and it looking like a virtual clone of the Sprint Center?



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07-10-2017, 05:23 PM
  #139
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Normally extensive renovations of an arena would entail more high-priced club sections, suites, loges, etc. However, looking at the renders it appears the Hawks will be losing 2 levels of suites (probably 40 - 50 suites total) for general upper deck seating - that is a huge loss in revenue.

They also are losing a few hundred high-priced seats directly behind one of the nets for a club. The club will probably seat less people as there needs to be room for people to do their dancing or whatever they heck they will be doing during all those timeouts so unless they charge significantly more per seat that is another revenue loss.

This is puzzling. The whole point of expensive renovations is to derive greater revenues. That sure doesn't seem to be the case here. Maybe all those suites weren't selling before so they reduced the supply? That would be strange given Atlanta is supposed to be the corporate stronghold of the southeast.

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07-10-2017, 11:02 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
Your sarcasm is charming but maybe instead of spending two seconds on that, you could've spent two seconds doing a little research instead.



https://www.bizjournals.com/milwauke...k-to-host.html

Or how about a picture of inside renderings and it looking like a virtual clone of the Sprint Center?

First and formost I could give 2 ***** where the admirals play, they could go back to wilson park for all i care...my post did it's job which was to elicit a response from you other than your entitlistic 'Wrong"...I have no problem being wrong but don't talk down to me like you did with a one word WRONG...tell or show me why I'm wrong

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07-11-2017, 08:36 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
This is puzzling. The whole point of expensive renovations is to derive greater revenues. That sure doesn't seem to be the case here. Maybe all those suites weren't selling before so they reduced the supply? That would be strange given Atlanta is supposed to be the corporate stronghold of the southeast.
I'm fairly certain that the highest level suites, especially towards the ends of the suite wall, were a tough sell. No one really wanted to pay premium prices for a 400-level, end-zone equivalent view. It was the obvious achilles heel of Philips Arena's stacked-suite design. How no one originally saw that coming is amazing to me. There's a reason all other arenas have a ring of suites around the entire bowl. Philips designers were too innovative by half.

EDIT: FWIW, the original explanation given for the odd design is that it would create better sightlines for the rest of the arena, i.e. the upper deck would be substantially lower than if sitting on top of an intermediate suite level. Makes sense at first glance, but it didn't work well in the real world.

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07-11-2017, 09:06 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by HisIceness View Post
Ugh, looks like they want less and less people there for the actual game. But of course people will drop hundreds of $$$ on this bar so can't blame the Hawks for doing this.
Historically they don't draw that well anyway. Maybe they're trying to make Hawks games more fun.

In any event, I've given up. If I need to see an NHL game I can drive 4 hours to support an organization that deserves my money.

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07-11-2017, 06:24 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by nhlfan79 View Post
I'm fairly certain that the highest level suites, especially towards the ends of the suite wall, were a tough sell. No one really wanted to pay premium prices for a 400-level, end-zone equivalent view. It was the obvious achilles heel of Philips Arena's stacked-suite design. How no one originally saw that coming is amazing to me. There's a reason all other arenas have a ring of suites around the entire bowl. Philips designers were too innovative by half.

EDIT: FWIW, the original explanation given for the odd design is that it would create better sightlines for the rest of the arena, i.e. the upper deck would be substantially lower than if sitting on top of an intermediate suite level. Makes sense at first glance, but it didn't work well in the real world.
Oh I see. That makes sense. I wonder how many suites Phillips will have after the renovations?

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