HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

At 30th Overall the Predators Select Eeli Tolvanen

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-06-2017, 10:05 AM
  #176
Drake744
Tennessweden
 
Drake744's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Posts: 9,585
vCash: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by year1fan View Post
Well, that's it. Not going to post opinions and be personally attacked(a 2nd time). I'm off the boards; some folks can't stand opposing opinions and revert to personal attacks.
Personally I have no problem with opposing opinions but the issue was probably that the whole thing was started from your opinion that you basically stated was more or less a fact with no real tangible evidence to support it. You said Fabbro probably will not sign with us. When asked what that was based on, you said something along the lines of the whole Vesey saga and implied that anyone decent who plays NCAA in or near Boston or NY are influenced by outside people. Interesting theory, but again, holds little weight because it's happened all of once to us (coincidentally to someone from an NHL family with pull to in the area) and there have been many more instances where it hasn't. He has also said we were his favorite team and he's willing to sign when the team offers it to him. That's pretty bold for a guy looking to screw us over.

Again, nothing wrong in theory with having different opinions, but I just wish there was more evidence to support one when using words like "probably", when almost all of it points to the contrary.

Drake744 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2017, 10:06 AM
  #177
RaiderDoug
Registered User
 
RaiderDoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Knoxville
Country: United States
Posts: 2,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by year1fan View Post
Well, that's it. Not going to post opinions and be personally attacked(a 2nd time). I'm off the boards; some folks can't stand opposing opinions and revert to personal attacks.
You're no posting opinions. You're present what you believe are facts.

When someone presents contrary evidence (actual fact - I.e. the man's quotes and his family ties to the area and how a BU 'ship player is different than a 4 year Harvard guy), You say stuff like "I don't need no evidence".

You're not being attacked - you've put forth a poor argument, and it's being dismantled.

Anyways - one player isn't another. It's as simple as that. The vast majority of NCAA players sign with their own team, and the only possible way to avoid that is to not draft NCAA players.

It's all a risk. To completely minimize it, you would have to avoid drafting Euros, because in the past a Euro or two has bolted back to the KHL. You can't draft guys from Minnesota because we all say what happened there with Suter.

Basically, the only safe route is to draft kids only from local Tennessee high school leagues.

RaiderDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2017, 10:59 AM
  #178
Armourboy
Registered User
 
Armourboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Shelbyville, TN
Posts: 4,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by year1fan View Post
Well, that's it. Not going to post opinions and be personally attacked(a 2nd time). I'm off the boards; some folks can't stand opposing opinions and revert to personal attacks.
If that's all it takes then you probably need to shy away from message boards, that was pretty subtle compared to some stuff I've seen over the years.

Thing is you basically pulled one incident and tried to make an entire argument of it being the norm, at best it's reaching.

Sure it's something to consider, but until he is offered a contract and doesn't sign there isn't a ton to worry about.

Armourboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2017, 03:00 PM
  #179
DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Country: Palestine
Posts: 1,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by year1fan View Post
Based on running home instead of staying in the AHL and being developed under the Preds system by Pred coaches and, if good enough, getting called up. Lots of 1st round draft choices do that or make the team out of training camp. One assumption I make is that he won't even try to do that.
Someone alluded to a belief that one reason he "slipped" so far in the draft was that other teams passed on him because they knew he was going to go home instead of staying and developing here.
European hockey is ok but it's not the AHL.
have you watched european hockey in person? I've been to Czech and Slovak elite league games and the czech elite league looked as good if not better then the AHL.

DarrylshutzSydor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2017, 04:56 PM
  #180
Preds Partisan
Gunga galunga
 
Preds Partisan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 1,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
have you watched european hockey in person? I've been to Czech and Slovak elite league games and the czech elite league looked as good if not better then the AHL.
Quality isn't the point. Kid needs to be in a development league.

Preds Partisan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2017, 04:58 PM
  #181
DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Country: Palestine
Posts: 1,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds Partisan View Post
Quality isn't the point. Kid needs to be in a development league.
Last I checked the Finnish elite league has many young players developing there.

DarrylshutzSydor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2017, 04:58 PM
  #182
triggrman
Registered User
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,355
vCash: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
have you watched european hockey in person? I've been to Czech and Slovak elite league games and the czech elite league looked as good if not better then the AHL.
He needs to be on an NHL rink Playing NHL systems

triggrman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2017, 04:27 AM
  #183
Mestaruus
Winland
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh24 View Post
I came across it on Jokerit.com but here it is in youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t08ah0Go2jU
Thanks.

Mestaruus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 05:53 AM
  #184
mirasane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 41
vCash: 500
There are risks for Tolvanen playing in Jokerit. Jokerit just announced the contract of Nicklas Jensen from Rangers organization. He scored 32 goals in AHL last season so he will surely drop Tolvanen down in the depth chart.

Now at least the following wingers are ahead of Tolvanen in the depth chart:
- Niclas Jensen (32 goals in AHL last season)
- Olli Palola (Finnish national team players. 48 points in 52 games in Swedish Elite League last season)
- Brian O'Neill (36 points in Jokerit last season)
- Jesse Joensuu (Finnish national team forward who scored 15 KHL goals in 50 games last season)

Also Tolvanen will have really hard time even competing with the following players:
- Pekka Jormakka (speedy winger who scored 13+13=26 points in 43 KHL games last season. Also played in Finnish national team)
- Tommi Huhtala (physical winger who can also score goals. In 50 games last season he scored 15 goals. Playd in Finnish national team too)

So if all of the ones mentioned are healthy and in the lineup there are wingers on top3 lines. And playing in 4th line definitely isn't the right role for a midget shooter like Tolvanen.

mirasane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 07:39 AM
  #185
JustaFinnishGuy
Registered User
 
JustaFinnishGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirasane View Post
So if all of the ones mentioned are healthy and in the lineup there are wingers on top3 lines. And playing in 4th line definitely isn't the right role for a midget shooter like Tolvanen.
I fear he's going to become an everlasting recovery project like Pulkkinen if he only gets 4th line minutes. Such a high risk - average reward move. I think he added an extra year to his already 2 year journey to NHL.

JustaFinnishGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:25 AM
  #186
Gh24
Registered User
 
Gh24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 532
vCash: 500
Jensen signing had me cringe a little too...
Could we see Tolvanen be an extra attacker (KHL junior rule) and get random shifts here and there depending how the other forwards play? Maybe get some PP minutes as well?

Gh24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:25 PM
  #187
Legionnaire11
#2 Draft Pick
 
Legionnaire11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 5,175
vCash: 500
I'm not as concerned as most apparently. Does Jokerit have players who produced well? Yes. Are most of those guys players who were marginal NHL players at best? Yes. Is Tolvanen more highly touted than any of those players ever were? Yes.

So while he has developing to do, let's not act like he's stepping into a star studded NHL roster next season. The KHL is really not that good. I understand it was billed as a rival to the NHL but if you watch any games (there was a regular broadcast on one of the channels here last year) you can see just how far away from the NHL level it is. For perspective, Antti Pihlstrom was their best player last year and older Preds fans should be familiar with him.

I also question if either team or player would sign on to put a developing prospect into a lineup where he would be so clearly playing in a role that he is apparently poorly suited to be playing. Seems more likely that they would anticipate that a player who is projected as a top-6 sniper in the NHL to be able to come in and compete for a scoring role on the team.

I could be dead wrong, maybe this is the worst possible choice Eeli could be making right now, and of course I would prefer him to be in NA. Certainly he's heard whatever input the Preds have given. And if he's going to a bad situation, and he never develops, maybe he was never going to develop in the first place.

Legionnaire11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 03:02 PM
  #188
mirasane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 41
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
So while he has developing to do, let's not act like he's stepping into a star studded NHL roster next season. The KHL is really not that good. I understand it was billed as a rival to the NHL but if you watch any games (there was a regular broadcast on one of the channels here last year) you can see just how far away from the NHL level it is. For perspective, Antti Pihlstrom was their best player last year and older Preds fans should be familiar with him.
Antti Pihlström was their best player last year?!? Based on what? A 3rd or 4th line energy player who scored 3 goals and 8 points last season. He was 18th best scorer among Jokerit roster: http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.p...7&status=stats

Tolvanen would need top6 minutes and quality time in PP to develop properly but I see a reasonable chance that he is getting neither. Especially if he doesn't succeed straight away. I really hope I am wrong and everything goes well. If it does and Tolvanen plays 1st PP with guys like Regin, Jensen, Sami Lepistö and Matt Gilroy it would be awesome for him.

mirasane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 03:16 PM
  #189
Legionnaire11
#2 Draft Pick
 
Legionnaire11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 5,175
vCash: 500
Sorry, I thought I had read some stats on Pihlstrom that showed him as their leading scorer. I'm definitely wrong on that.

However, I think the sentiment stands if Peter Regin, Brian O'Neill and Jess Joensuu were the top scorers. Preds fans may not be that familiar with them, and if not it's because they were all very useless NHL players (O'Neill really never made the NHL).

These are far from the great players that some people are talking them up to be.

Legionnaire11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 05:24 PM
  #190
SauceMyBiscuit
Registered User
 
SauceMyBiscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 395
vCash: 500
It seems like the KHL is very different from the NHL. It's very possible that Tolvanen can focus on the holes in his game and become a solid NHL player, but I just remember the last small speedy winger with a good shot from Jokerit was Steve Moses, who set the KHL goal scoring record. Seems like KHL skills don't always translate but who knows.

SauceMyBiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 10:00 PM
  #191
Flgatorguy87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: East Nasty
Posts: 1,463
vCash: 500
I was moderately excited about this kid, but this signing has me pretty down on him.

I feel better about Farrance and Mismash at this point.

Flgatorguy87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 12:24 PM
  #192
TitansVolsPreds615
Registered User
 
TitansVolsPreds615's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
I think this is a guy who won't be getting a sniff of Nashville until 3 or 4 years from now. This KHL thing is really going to set him back.

TitansVolsPreds615 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 03:17 PM
  #193
Paranoid Android
mug mug mug
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 12,676
vCash: 500
Meh, anything under 3 years would be awfully optimistic for a 30th overall pick.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2017, 07:24 PM
  #194
FinnHockeyFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirasane View Post
There are risks for Tolvanen playing in Jokerit. Jokerit just announced the contract of Nicklas Jensen from Rangers organization. He scored 32 goals in AHL last season so he will surely drop Tolvanen down in the depth chart.

Now at least the following wingers are ahead of Tolvanen in the depth chart:
- Niclas Jensen (32 goals in AHL last season)
- Olli Palola (Finnish national team players. 48 points in 52 games in Swedish Elite League last season)
- Brian O'Neill (36 points in Jokerit last season)
- Jesse Joensuu (Finnish national team forward who scored 15 KHL goals in 50 games last season)

Also Tolvanen will have really hard time even competing with the following players:
- Pekka Jormakka (speedy winger who scored 13+13=26 points in 43 KHL games last season. Also played in Finnish national team)
- Tommi Huhtala (physical winger who can also score goals. In 50 games last season he scored 15 goals. Playd in Finnish national team too)

So if all of the ones mentioned are healthy and in the lineup there are wingers on top3 lines. And playing in 4th line definitely isn't the right role for a midget shooter like Tolvanen.
Tolvanen's contract with Jokerit is two way contract.
That means if / when Jokerit not have free KHL roster spot to Tolvanen Jokerit can assign him to Kiekko-Vantaa ( Jokerit's affiliate team in Mestis).

FinnHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.