HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hellebuyck Files for Arbitration

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-13-2017, 06:02 PM
  #176
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,712
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
Your example is not very good. You practically pointed out that no one would ask their employer to reduce their salary from previous year, even if they had performance badly. But that is not at all the same situation as what Hellebuyck is doing.

At work I can honestly say that if I had a bad year full of mistakes, I would for sure not dare to suggest my employer that I deserve some spesific raise, I would just take the salary what my employer would present, as long as it would be at least as much as I got so far, and be happy that I still had the same job despite my bad performance. To me Hellebuyck's performance was that bad last season, that he would not deserve any more money than he got last season, until he has clearly proved that he is better than that.

Not everyone in this world is nor should be thinking in the way that they always deserve more money. Thinking that you are entitled to more money even with performing badly, is indeed being greedy in it's purest form. I know that a large amount of people and societies try to present this as a normal or even good thing nowadays. But it really isn't as this type of distribution of money is unbalanced and can lead in general to all kinds of unnecessary debts and shortage of money in societies and nations at the bigger scale. Yes we are just talking about hockey here, but even hockey is a part of the bigger picture.
It is essentially the same thing though. You're suggesting he should not try and maximize his income out of some sort of embarrassment you think he feels. Which is just like a pay cut IMO.

If the Jets felt the way you do about it they could have chose to not qualify him and he could sign wherever he chose. They didn't do that, maybe because he was the best option they had last season more than 50 times?

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 06:07 PM
  #177
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,712
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpw View Post
Ippenator:

Connor Hellebuyck made $692,500 last year. $92,500 signing bonus, and $600,000 salary.

Connor Hellebuyck's qualifying offer is a two-way contract, with $660k salary in the NHL, and $70k salary in the AHL, with zero signing bonuses. His QO is not one-way because he didn't dress for 180 games last 3 seasons.

That means, if he were to sign his QO, there would be a (admittedly minimal) risk that management sends him down on day one, which would actually mean that he'd suffer a $622,500 pay cut. If he were to be sent down after 20 games (slightly bigger risk if he doesn't perform), still a pay cut north of $400k.

At work, if you had "a bad year full of mistakes", would you take the risk of taking a $622,500 pay cut in case your boss doesn't like you anymore? (I assume none of us actually make that much...)
Helle's QO was one way I think

10.2

The qualifying offer must be a One-Way offer if the following three requirements are met (A goaltender is considered to have played a game if they are on the bench as a backup for this scenario):
The player played in 180 NHL games in the previous three seasons (Prorating for the shortened 2012-13 season: 156 games if one of the three seasons is 2012-13).
The player played in 60 NHL games in the previous season (36 if the previous season is 2012-13).
The player did not clear waivers in the previous season.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 06:10 PM
  #178
mcpw
WPG
 
mcpw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
Helle's QO was one way I think

10.2

The qualifying offer must be a One-Way offer if the following three requirements are met (A goaltender is considered to have played a game if they are on the bench as a backup for this scenario):
The player played in 180 NHL games in the previous three seasons (Prorating for the shortened 2012-13 season: 156 games if one of the three seasons is 2012-13).
The player played in 60 NHL games in the previous season (36 if the previous season is 2012-13).
The player did not clear waivers in the previous season.
All three requirements have to be met. Hellebuyck did dress as a backup for exactly one game in the 2014-15 season (last game against the Flames). He couldn't have dressed for 179 games in the 15-16 and 16-17 seasons because two seasons are only 164 games. So his QO is two-way.

mcpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 07:08 PM
  #179
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,712
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpw View Post
All three requirements have to be met. Hellebuyck did dress as a backup for exactly one game in the 2014-15 season (last game against the Flames). He couldn't have dressed for 179 games in the 15-16 and 16-17 seasons because two seasons are only 164 games. So his QO is two-way.
Yeah I'm mistaken.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 10:51 PM
  #180
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,038
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnp View Post
You've made a great post here MC, and it helps me and Ippenator understand why Helly would file for arbitration- "makes sense" I thought he was looking for "more money", but according to your post, it is more of a defensive act by Helly's agent to "protect what he has."

I wish you'd add more "clarity" to your post MC ??? like what did he make ??? you say $ 692 K + 92.5 + 600 = $ 1,384,500 total- is this correct ??? or did he just make 600 + 92,500= total of $ 692,500 ??? Please be a little bit more explanatory when citing these contract numbers. Thanks for the post though-"now makes sense to me."
I'm glad some explanation clicked for you but you still don't seem to get it. Filing for arbitration is just a formality. Actually going to arbitration is something else. Filing for arbitration is just something that has to be done in order to retain the option to actually go to arbitration at a later date if negotiations don't lead to an agreement.

Mortimer Snerd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 12:20 PM
  #181
gnp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I'm glad some explanation clicked for you but you still don't seem to get it. Filing for arbitration is just a formality. Actually going to arbitration is something else. Filing for arbitration is just something that has to be done in order to retain the option to actually go to arbitration at a later date if negotiations don't lead to an agreement.

Yes, I certainly get the arbitration process, and really Helly is filing to have an "option" to take arbitration to it's last stage ( formal hearing ) if it's necessary- if "issues" cannot be worked out beforehand. Not a lot of players file for arbitration, and Helly or his agent did this for a reason, and the reason is as stated in post # 177 ( above) With Mason coming aboard, I think he's feeling a little insecure, and there could be a situation where he stands to lose a lot of money- $ 622,500-to be exact( big $$$)
( see referenced post above-# 177)

I'm sure he would like to have this "risk" removed from his contract situation, even though it's remote. I cannot see him filing for more money based on his last years performance. Probably what will happen is that this "concern"-whatever it is, will be worked out by Helly's agent and the Jets, before it goes to a formal arbitration hearing.

gnp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 07:51 PM
  #182
10Ducky10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnp View Post
Yes, I certainly get the arbitration process, and really Helly is filing to have an "option" to take arbitration to it's last stage ( formal hearing ) if it's necessary- if "issues" cannot be worked out beforehand. Not a lot of players file for arbitration, and Helly or his agent did this for a reason, and the reason is as stated in post # 177 ( above) With Mason coming aboard, I think he's feeling a little insecure, and there could be a situation where he stands to lose a lot of money- $ 622,500-to be exact( big $$$)
( see referenced post above-# 177)

I'm sure he would like to have this "risk" removed from his contract situation, even though it's remote. I cannot see him filing for more money based on his last years performance. Probably what will happen is that this "concern"-whatever it is, will be worked out by Helly's agent and the Jets, before it goes to a formal arbitration hearing.
I would guess that close to all (100%) that can file do file.

10Ducky10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 08:02 PM
  #183
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,712
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Ducky10 View Post
I would guess that close to all (100%) that can file do file.
Weber didn't twice(he eventually signed an offer sheet)

Johansen didn't this year.

It's not 100%

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 11:51 PM
  #184
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,038
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnp View Post
Yes, I certainly get the arbitration process, and really Helly is filing to have an "option" to take arbitration to it's last stage ( formal hearing ) if it's necessary- if "issues" cannot be worked out beforehand. Not a lot of players file for arbitration, and Helly or his agent did this for a reason, and the reason is as stated in post # 177 ( above) With Mason coming aboard, I think he's feeling a little insecure, and there could be a situation where he stands to lose a lot of money- $ 622,500-to be exact( big $$$)
( see referenced post above-# 177)

I'm sure he would like to have this "risk" removed from his contract situation, even though it's remote. I cannot see him filing for more money based on his last years performance. Probably what will happen is that this "concern"-whatever it is, will be worked out by Helly's agent and the Jets, before it goes to a formal arbitration hearing.
That's just it. A lot of players file for arbitration. The vast majority of eligible players file for arbitration.

Mortimer Snerd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2017, 06:42 PM
  #185
WerdnaG
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
Weber didn't twice(he eventually signed an offer sheet)

Johansen didn't this year.

It's not 100%
Thats two.

He said close to all.

WerdnaG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.