HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Friedman: "Summer LTIR"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-16-2017, 10:51 PM
  #1
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 67,753
vCash: 500
Friedman: "Summer LTIR"

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...ne-still-open/

Quote:
I thought Toronto was vulnerable with Connor Brown, a really good player who wouldn’t cost four first-rounders, but the Maple Leafs’ use of “Summer LTIR” gave them room. Admittedly, that wrinkle caught me by surprise, but after doing some digging, this is not a move Lou Lamoriello is unfamiliar with. In 2005, right out of that lockout and the new CBA, the Devils became the first team to use this option, when Patrik Elias came down with Hepatitis after spending that season in Russia. (I believe Philadelphia also used it. The Flyers were on LTIR for about a decade.)

Chicago GM Stan Bowman told local reporters he didn’t want to go this route, because of the dangers. What are they? Well, it basically comes down to this: If someone gets hurt in training camp/pre-season and you can’t bury their contract, you could be in big trouble. So if Toronto’s players are wearing bubble-wrap, you’ll understand why.
...
The Maple Leafs had to do it because of their bonus overages. Their summer cap is calculated at the upper limit minus the bonus penalty, plus the 10 per cent cushion you are allowed at this time of year. So that’s $75M-$5M+$7M, or approximately $77M. Theory: Either Nathan Horton ($5.3M salary) or Joffrey Lupul ($5.25M) is on LTIR. Zach Hyman just signed for $2.25M. That leaves between $3-$3.05M for Brown. (Assuming no one offer-sheets him first.)
OK, so I don't know the specifics, but there is "something" in the CBA that allows some cap relief in the off season.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2017, 11:06 PM
  #2
madhi19
Just the tip!
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,068
vCash: 500
At this point the cap is just a thing that GM's with limited resources have to worry about.

madhi19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2017, 09:44 AM
  #3
Flukeshot
Hextall Activate!
 
Flukeshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brampton, Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,718
vCash: 50
If any CBA gurus could explain this one in more detail it'd be great. My limited understanding is that it is disadvantageous to place a player on LTIR in the offseason as the total salary number/savings is instantly realized and any dollars you add after are instantly applied against the savings.

Whereas if you wait until the 1st day of the season it is more fluid. The player goes on LTIR and you now have their dollar amount available and a called up replacement player eats into your savings on a daily basis.

Flukeshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2017, 10:43 AM
  #4
mouser
Global Moderator
Business of Hockey
 
mouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Mountain
Posts: 18,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flukeshot View Post
If any CBA gurus could explain this one in more detail it'd be great. My limited understanding is that it is disadvantageous to place a player on LTIR in the offseason as the total salary number/savings is instantly realized and any dollars you add after are instantly applied against the savings.

Whereas if you wait until the 1st day of the season it is more fluid. The player goes on LTIR and you now have their dollar amount available and a called up replacement player eats into your savings on a daily basis.
We're still waiting for all the facts to emerge. There are two separate sets of rules for calculating the cap:

(A) The "off-season" cap from July 1st till the last day of training camp. Cap is 110% of the regular season cap, however it includes things that may not be in the regular season cap. Such as all 1-way contracts (even if the player will later be buried in the AHL), and 2-way contracts are counted based on the % of time the player was on the NHL roster the prior season. (this is not a complete list)

(B) The "regular season" cap from first day of the regular season till June 30th.


Per the CBA illustrations:

- Exercising the LTIR Exception on a player allows the team to replace that player's salary even if it would cause the team to exceed the salary cap. The amount of "relief" gained depends on what the team cap is at when the LTIR-E is exercised.

Example 1: Cap is $75m. A team has a payroll of $74m. A player on a $5m contract is injured. The team exercises the LTIR-E on that player and can now have a payroll up to $79m. Note this is only $4m over the cap, so the team gained 80% cap relief on the $5m injured player.

Example 2: Cap is $75m. A team has a payroll of $68m. Player with a $5m contract is injured. There's no benefit to be gained by placing the player on LTIR-E.

- If a team cannot become cap compliant on day one of the "regular season" and is forced to use an LTIR-E during the "off-season" then the "regular season" cap relief formula is different.

Example 3: Cap is $75m. A team has a payroll of $78m on the final day of training camp (with a legal roster headcount) and cannot make changes. The team has a $5m injured player go on LTIR-E during the "off-season". That LTIR-E is deemed to fully satisfy the "regular season" cap overage and the team is allowed to have a cap of $78m in the "regular season". Note the team gained $3m of space over the cap, or 60% cap relief on the $5m injured player.

Example 4: Cap is $75m. A team has a payroll of $76m on the final day of training camp and cannot make changes. The team has a $5m injured player go on LTIR-E during the "off-season". That LTIR-E is deemed to fully satisfy the "regular season" cap overage and the team is allowed to have a cap of $76m in the "regular season". Note the team gained $1m of space over the cap, or 20% cap relief on the $5m injured player.


Additional Comments:

- LTIR and LTIR Exception are not the same thing, though we tend to use them interchangeably. A player can be on LTIR without invoking the LTIR Exception.

- My speculation is off-season LTIR-E may work the same as regular season LTIR-E in calculating how much space a team gains. However space gained during the off-season can transition to a different amount gained during the regular season as shown in Examples 3 & 4 above.

- It might not be possible to invoke LTIR-E in the off-season before training camp starts. CBA language seems to suggest there may be no Injured Reserve lists during the summer.

mouser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2017, 04:22 PM
  #5
OmniCube
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,556
vCash: 500
I'm pretty sure that Lou Lamoriello simply told Bettman he'd wake up with a horsehead in his bed if we couldn't use LTIR during the summer.

OmniCube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 07:00 PM
  #6
lifelonghockeyfan
Registered User
 
lifelonghockeyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Lake Huron
Posts: 1,872
vCash: 500
Don't know why people think it would be just the Leafs who would penalized if two players 10.5m in cap are on LTIR.
If Patrik Kane gets injured this summer aren' the Hawks able to get cap relief too. Of course they do.

lifelonghockeyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
Yesterday, 03:36 PM
  #7
Mr Positive
Cap Crunch Incoming
 
Mr Positive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 14,544
vCash: 1000
yeah I thought that there was supposed to be a downside to having an injured player in the summer, like you couldn't get the LTIR back and it was still limiting in making moves. Apparently not I guess. Why don't all teams just put their injured players on summer LTIR?

Mr Positive is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.