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Old
07-17-2017, 01:07 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by 10Ducky10 View Post
Let's say for sake of argument that Trouba signs a deal for 7.5m a year.
Does that mean the end of Buff?
Will Chevy keep two 7.5m+ players for his right side?
Should Chevey keep two 7.5m+ players for his right side?
If Myers proves to everyone he is helathy and plays at a 2RHD pace, would trading Buff be a move Chevy might think about? Trading Buff would free up enough money to re-sign Wheeler.
If a rookie like Nogier or Poolman for instance, steps up this year and shows to be an adequate 3RHD and Myers is healthy and Trouba is here long term, would moving Buff be the right thing to do? Trouba should eat up over 25 minutes a game.
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Originally Posted by Guffman View Post
I think this likely gets decided next offseason when the Jets have to pick which two of Trouba, Buff and Myers they will try to keep.

Trouba would need a new contract, Myers would be one year removed from UFA, and Buff would be eligible to be traded.

If Myers has a very good season and is healthy and we're able to sign Trouba to a 6+ term deal, I think you then move Buff.

We should be able to afford Trouba, provided he's not excessively greedy and wants to stay but the Jets cannot afford the luxury of keeping all of these high-priced d-men.
Can't keep Buff in that case. It's a luxury we cannot afford.

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07-17-2017, 05:09 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Buff's NMC ends after this season. That could be important. The Jets will be able to move Buff if they have Trouba as a #1 and need cap space for their young guys. Chevy has been pretty good at setting up contract lengths and was smart to only give Buff a NMC clause for a couple of seasons.
Yea at the time I made a big deal of that exact point. I thought that element of the negotiation was highly underrated. Buff was coming off a very good season and would have been a sought after free agent and Chevy gave on price but got back allot in term 5 years (vs 7) and keeping movement options after only 3 seasons was huge. I Was suprised Kevin pulled that off at the time.

I think Buff is going to have a really good season but we have left the door open just in case. If Trouba gets extended and we need to make room I would be suprised if Myers isn't the odd man out once he proves he is healthy enough. I have zero faith in his long term health anymore.

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07-17-2017, 05:52 AM
  #778
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Why can't they keep all three players? Myers has a cap friendly contract. He'd have to be pretty bad to not be worth it. Trade him now if you aren't sure of his health.

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07-17-2017, 05:59 AM
  #779
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Why can't they keep all three players? Myers has a cap friendly contract. He'd have to be pretty bad to not be worth it. Trade him now if you aren't sure of his health.
Not sure it makes sense to trade any D yet. Myers will need to get back in and prove he is good to go and I want to win this season. I think it is more likely we are talking about this at this time next year if it happens.

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07-17-2017, 07:49 PM
  #780
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I thought he hated Canada?


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07-17-2017, 07:52 PM
  #781
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I thought he hated Canada?
His dog does. That's why he forces him to wear Jets jerseys.

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Old
07-17-2017, 08:14 PM
  #782
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I hated Lawless but I believe he was right when he said if we're gonna logically extend Troubadour it needs to be this summer! Next year is to late. He's more tradable this trade years period than next year as more a rental.

I'm not liking no news here at all!!!

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07-17-2017, 09:09 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
I thought he hated Canada?

Trouba is a ****ing enigma, but what the hell is so special about Sobeys?

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07-17-2017, 09:50 PM
  #784
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If Trouba stays. We'll probably have to trade buff

At 7.6 what kind of return would we get for him?

I think trading buff or wheeler is the big trade that decides our future

We only have 8 million space left according to cap friendly


Last edited by Peggy: 07-17-2017 at 09:57 PM.
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07-17-2017, 09:58 PM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
If Trouba stays. We'll probably have to trade buff

At 7.6 what kind of return would we get for him?

I think trading buff or wheeler is the big trade that decides our future
If Trouba stays, I think it is a decision between Buff and Myers. We get a year to see if Myers is fully recovered and is willing to extend. If not, maybe Myers gets moved.

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07-17-2017, 10:03 PM
  #786
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Essentially: were ok paying the mercenary tax for a player like kulikov but not one of jts calibre?
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Hand cuffs work both ways.
I would not want to lose Trouba because he is not a good guy. I would let him go only if he is bent on selling his services, at an inflated price, to the highest bidder. That is what I mean by 'mercenary', and it is not in the best interests of the team.
You may or may not recall that, last year, during his holdout, I urged many angry fans to give him a chance, as I felt he was getting bad advice from Dad and KO. Well, he's a year older, had his chance to learn from that experience and now it's time to hold him accountable. I have no doubt that Chevy will offer him a generous LT deal, but only one that allows us to sign our other stars within the cap.
While I agree generally...I'f we can't sign trouba next year because we can't afford the 1 mil to 2 mil overpay then Chevy ****ed himself overpaying kulikov and Mason by 1.5 each and that's the issue.

On one hand were adamant we can't afford a one or two mil overpay on an elite too pairing dmen, yet the pitchforks aren't out for doing exactly that for a far inferior defensemen (teice technically).

Sorry. If your GMs gonna over pay a mediocre player by 2 mil, im not going to take it out in the star okayer who much closer deserves the extra cash.

This is the issue. If 1-2 mil a year too much is the issue, trade kulikov at the end if this season by yourself 2 years to figure it out.

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07-17-2017, 10:13 PM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Essentially: were ok paying the mercenary tax for a player like kulikov but not one of jts calibre?


While I agree generally...I'f we can't sign trouba next year because we can't afford the 1 mil to 2 mil overpay then Chevy ****ed himself overpaying kulikov and Mason by 1.5 each and that's the issue.

On one hand were adamant we can't afford a one or two mil overpay on an elite too pairing dmen, yet the pitchforks aren't out for doing exactly that for a far inferior defensemen (teice technically).

Sorry. If your GMs gonna over pay a mediocre player by 2 mil, im not going to take it out in the star okayer who much closer deserves the extra cash.

This is the issue. If 1-2 mil a year too much is the issue, trade kulikov at the end if this season by yourself 2 years to figure it out.
I concur
Still would rather be able to spread it around tho

Laine is gonna be expensive if he hits 40 goals
And even more if he becomes a ppg player

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07-17-2017, 10:38 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Essentially: were ok paying the mercenary tax for a player like kulikov but not one of jts calibre?


While I agree generally...I'f we can't sign trouba next year because we can't afford the 1 mil to 2 mil overpay then Chevy ****ed himself overpaying kulikov and Mason by 1.5 each and that's the issue.

On one hand were adamant we can't afford a one or two mil overpay on an elite too pairing dmen, yet the pitchforks aren't out for doing exactly that for a far inferior defensemen (teice technically).

Sorry. If your GMs gonna over pay a mediocre player by 2 mil, im not going to take it out in the star okayer who much closer deserves the extra cash.

This is the issue. If 1-2 mil a year too much is the issue, trade kulikov at the end if this season by yourself 2 years to figure it out.
6 million from not having to pay toby after next year and if trouba decides to re-sign here another 3 more million after myers leaves in 2 years thats an extra 9 million. Problem solved. More then enough money.

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07-17-2017, 10:41 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
Trouba is a ****ing enigma, but what the hell is so special about Sobeys?
Ever been to a grocery store in Detroit?

If anything should give Winnipegers some hope, it should be that a **** heap like Detroit was able to attract top players when they were competitive. Winnipeg is twice the city that dump is.

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07-18-2017, 12:49 AM
  #790
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#TradeMyers

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07-18-2017, 01:23 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
#TradeMyers
yea with poolman ready i don't think keeping myers around for 5.5 mil to play 3rd pair is worth it

ideally i would've love to have kept postma for cheap. they are almost the same

myers isn't that great as it stands, may as well trade him while he has some value before he declines and turns into a below replacement level player worth nothing

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07-18-2017, 05:28 AM
  #792
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yea with poolman ready i don't think keeping myers around for 5.5 mil to play 3rd pair is worth it

ideally i would've love to have kept postma for cheap. they are almost the same

myers isn't that great as it stands, may as well trade him while he has some value before he declines and turns into a below replacement level player worth nothing
poolman wont be ready. even if he was they would have no idea if he wouldn't need time on the moose first. myers doesn't make 5.5 million. myers is actually very good at hockey. why would any gm trade myers not knowing what will happen with trouba first. of coarse not 1 gm would ever trademyers before knowing for sure that trouba was re-signing first.

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07-18-2017, 06:55 AM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
Trouba is a ****ing enigma, but what the hell is so special about Sobeys?
I think the single most important thing I keep reminding myself when I hear any news from Trouba is he is a memeber of a team. There is the free spirited, laid back to a fault, easy going surfer type dude that is on an allowance, a crazy controlling parent that has been in trouble before with too much power, and an agent with a reputation. IMO there is more than one agenda in play with the team.

The best news on this and the one that gives me a glimmer of hope is (allegedly) when Jacob met Chevy face to face in Michigan and he was back playing again shortly. "IF" Jacob put his foot down then it increases my hope that he will eventually sign here. I will maintain even after he leaves (if he leaves) he has never given a **** and would play anywhere if it was solely up to him.

and nothing is special about Sobeys so there must be an inside joke there.

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07-18-2017, 07:07 AM
  #794
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6 million from not having to pay toby after next year and if trouba decides to re-sign here another 3 more million after myers leaves in 2 years thats an extra 9 million. Problem solved. More then enough money.
Except you will need replacements for both Toby and Myers. Maybe they are in house and cheaper, but once players are past their ELC's they start costing more. The big pressure on the cap is the number of pending contracts not just Trouba's. You have Little, Wheeler, Morrissey, Ehlers and Laine all coming due over the next 2 seasons. Chevy getting Scheifele at $6.125 was key to having any hope of keeping our core group together. Paying Trouba as a Norris trophy winner just to keep him will have an inflationary effect on all the contracts and likely means we lose one of our other top players. Whatever we pay Trouba it will be less than Laine as there seems to a growing premium on face of the franchise contracts.

Chevy will have to piece this all together one step at a time and no way Overcharge negotiates Trouba's next contract until he is looking into the white's of Chevy's eyes with his client's arb hearing fast approaching next summer. Chevy's job now is getting Ehlers on a team friendly deal like Scheifele and getting Little to sign back on at a reasonable number and term. Maybe also signing Morrissey long term on a low number but I'm guessing Chevy will need to bridge Morrissey to make it all fit together. Then he has a hope keeping both Laine and Trouba with their big tickets, even with that Wheeler might get squeezed out. If one of Mason or Helly proves to be a legit starter over the next 2 years then now you will also be paying a goalie $5 M or so.

So conservative ballpark long term contract numbers in 3 years:

Laine: $9
Buff: $7.6
Trouba: $7.5
Scheifele: $6.125
Wheeler: $6
Ehlers: $5.75
Little: $5.5
Morrissey: $5.25
Starting goalie: $5
Kulikov: $4.33
MP: $4.125

Total: $ 66.18 and that is being conservative and hopeful. Assuming an approx $80 M cap that leaves you with $13.82 to sign 12 players. But with Lowry, Armia, Connor, Copp needing new contracts as well you'd need to fill out the roster on ELC level contracts. Obviously some things have to give, but IMO no one player can willingly be paid above market value because we are afraid of losing them.

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07-18-2017, 07:14 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by ffh View Post
6 million from not having to pay toby after next year and if trouba decides to re-sign here another 3 more million after myers leaves in 2 years thats an extra 9 million. Problem solved. More then enough money.
You can't look at it in isolation like that. Our young forwards will need big contracts too. Plenty of ways for Chevy to approach this though.

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07-18-2017, 07:22 AM
  #796
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Except you will need replacements for both Toby and Myers. Maybe they are in house and cheaper, but once players are past their ELC's they start costing more. The big pressure on the cap is the number of pending contracts not just Trouba's. You have Little, Wheeler, Morrissey, Ehlers and Laine all coming due over the next 2 seasons. Chevy getting Scheifele at $6.125 was key to having any hope of keeping our core group together. Paying Trouba as a Norris trophy winner just to keep him will have an inflationary effect on all the contracts and likely means we lose one of our other top players. Whatever we pay Trouba it will be less than Laine as there seems to a growing premium on face of the franchise contracts.

Chevy will have to piece this all together one step at a time and no way Overcharge negotiates Trouba's next contract until he is looking into the white's of Chevy's eyes with his client's arb hearing fast approaching next summer. Chevy's job now is getting Ehlers on a team friendly deal like Scheifele and getting Little to sign back on at a reasonable number and term. Maybe also signing Morrissey long term on a low number but I'm guessing Chevy will need to bridge Morrissey to make it all fit together. Then he has a hope keeping both Laine and Trouba with their big tickets, even with that Wheeler might get squeezed out. If one of Mason or Helly proves to be a legit starter over the next 2 years then now you will also be paying a goalie $5 M or so.

So conservative ballpark long term contract numbers in 3 years:

Laine: $9
Buff: $7.6
Trouba: $7.5
Scheifele: $6.125
Wheeler: $6
Ehlers: $5.75
Little: $5.5
Morrissey: $5.25
Starting goalie: $5
Kulikov: $4.33
MP: $4.125

Total: $ 66.18 and that is being conservative and hopeful. Assuming an approx $80 M cap that leaves you with $13.82 to sign 12 players. But with Lowry, Armia, Connor, Copp needing new contracts as well you'd need to fill out the roster on ELC level contracts. Obviously some things have to give, but IMO no one player can willingly be paid above market value because we are afraid of losing them.
I think you are over paying trouba and Morrissey by a fair margin. more like 6.5 and 4.

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07-18-2017, 07:36 AM
  #797
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Except you will need replacements for both Toby and Myers. Maybe they are in house and cheaper, but once players are past their ELC's they start costing more. The big pressure on the cap is the number of pending contracts not just Trouba's. You have Little, Wheeler, Morrissey, Ehlers and Laine all coming due over the next 2 seasons. Chevy getting Scheifele at $6.125 was key to having any hope of keeping our core group together. Paying Trouba as a Norris trophy winner just to keep him will have an inflationary effect on all the contracts and likely means we lose one of our other top players. Whatever we pay Trouba it will be less than Laine as there seems to a growing premium on face of the franchise contracts.

Chevy will have to piece this all together one step at a time and no way Overcharge negotiates Trouba's next contract until he is looking into the white's of Chevy's eyes with his client's arb hearing fast approaching next summer. Chevy's job now is getting Ehlers on a team friendly deal like Scheifele and getting Little to sign back on at a reasonable number and term. Maybe also signing Morrissey long term on a low number but I'm guessing Chevy will need to bridge Morrissey to make it all fit together. Then he has a hope keeping both Laine and Trouba with their big tickets, even with that Wheeler might get squeezed out. If one of Mason or Helly proves to be a legit starter over the next 2 years then now you will also be paying a goalie $5 M or so.

So conservative ballpark long term contract numbers in 3 years:

Laine: $9
Buff: $7.6
Trouba: $7.5
Scheifele: $6.125
Wheeler: $6
Ehlers: $5.75
Little: $5.5
Morrissey: $5.25
Starting goalie: $5
Kulikov: $4.33
MP: $4.125

Total: $ 66.18 and that is being conservative and hopeful. Assuming an approx $80 M cap that leaves you with $13.82 to sign 12 players. But with Lowry, Armia, Connor, Copp needing new contracts as well you'd need to fill out the roster on ELC level contracts. Obviously some things have to give, but IMO no one player can willingly be paid above market value because we are afraid of losing them.
Trade kulikov. Your already paying him 2m over market value. How is this any different?

Your also not going to need 6 mil caphits to replace the quality of players Enstrom and Meyers are right now.

You also have a 4.5 mil caphit on Perreault that's likely/hopefully a luxury at this point.

I'd hate to lose Matty P, but if the option is the downgrade on trouba to keep Perraults and kulikov it's an easy decision.

Move kuli.move Perreault. And replace them with signings equivalent to Perraults first contract with us (actual good value)

Of course easier said then done, but so is getting a return for trouba that includes a top pairing dman who doesn't cost 8 mil plus.

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07-18-2017, 07:42 AM
  #798
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Essentially there's also this, we can't overpay trouba because we need the cash to keep the band together. Well, if you can't pay him, your not keeping the band together anyways.

So for the next four years, would you rather have trouba and the return from one of little it wheeler, or would you rather keep 30+ yearokd wheeler and 30 yearold little, and whatever you get from trouba.

I would like to compete now. Anything with most of it's value 3-4 plus years out is pointless for where this organization is.

We also have some strong forward prospects and potential, and little and wheeler are likely playing second line minutes at this point. That's a lot easier and cheaper to replace then a 24 yearold top 15 dman.


I get it, something is going to have to give. There's just no way to me that Troubas the piece were going to give up. You sacrifice almost any other player on this roster save for scheifele ehlers and Laine to keep trouba, and hell I'd even have to consider ehlers

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07-18-2017, 07:44 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Essentially: were ok paying the mercenary tax for a player like kulikov but not one of jts calibre?


While I agree generally...I'f we can't sign trouba next year because we can't afford the 1 mil to 2 mil overpay then Chevy ****ed himself overpaying kulikov and Mason by 1.5 each and that's the issue.

On one hand were adamant we can't afford a one or two mil overpay on an elite too pairing dmen, yet the pitchforks aren't out for doing exactly that for a far inferior defensemen (teice technically).

Sorry. If your GMs gonna over pay a mediocre player by 2 mil, im not going to take it out in the star okayer who much closer deserves the extra cash.

This is the issue. If 1-2 mil a year too much is the issue, trade kulikov at the end if this season by yourself 2 years to figure it out.
Mason isn't overpaid, he has a great contract.

There are contracts dropping nicely off the books over the next 2 years, and if there are money issues I'd look to move Myers/Enstrom/Perreault to make room, but this should be an issue on the 2nd year, not next year.

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07-18-2017, 07:48 AM
  #800
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Mason isn't overpaid, he has a great contract.

There are contracts dropping nicely off the books over the next 2 years, and if there are money issues I'd look to move Myers/Enstrom/Perreault to make room, but this should be an issue on the 2nd year, not next year.
Exactly. There are plenty of options to keep trouba even if it's at 1-2 mil more then "he's worth".

Your not going to get every player on a team friendly deal. Eventually your going to have to pay someone. The three guys I'd be paying are scheifele trouba and laine, and scheifs already given you a discount.

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