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2017-18 Roster Thread II - Yay for Summer!

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Old
07-14-2017, 10:37 PM
  #101
Johnny Caravella
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Originally Posted by The Mighty Duck Man View Post
It's not opinion when you make declarative statements, which I never did. If I'm bent out of shape, which I'm not, itd be because of a growing trend of people trashing these guys' credibility because they say something they don't like, here and everywhere else.

I must say its hilarious that you open with it all being subjective and there's no way to score it, and then come back with an objective statement about how he's clearly behind the other big three. Between that and some of your ridiculous arguments, makes me think you just really hate the guy and you're bent out of shape because I'm defending him.
It's an opinion, it's subjective. Just like you have an opinion, albeit a different one. But for some reason I'm a liar and a hater because my opinion differs from yours. You're the one who got defensive when multiple people were less than impressed with Friedman. Trust me, it doesn't bother me one iota if you or others think more highly of him than I do. You won't see me call anybody a hater or liar for having a different opinion of anything.

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Old
07-14-2017, 10:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by gilfaizon View Post
Friedman does stink now, he's gone way downhill and has really started to speculate more than anything. Bob Mac had a rough year or so but has seemed to pick up steam again. He reports what he hears much more than Elliotte
Elliotte puts out a weekly column of everything he hears, Bob or anyone definitely doesn't report more than he does. Which doesn't mean he's better by any means, but he easily puts himself out there the most(and he probably has to).

Why does he stink? Why did Bob have a tough year? Those kind of comments, with nothing to really support them, baffle me.

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Old
07-14-2017, 10:50 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Johnny Caravella View Post
It's an opinion, it's subjective. Just like you have an opinion, albeit a different one. But for some reason I'm a liar and a hater because my opinion differs from yours. You're the one who got defensive when multiple people were less than impressed with Friedman. Trust me, it doesn't bother me one iota if you or others think more highly of him than I do. You won't see me call anybody a hater or liar for having a different opinion of anything.
I said you lied because you said he hasn't broken anything in a long time, ehich is hilariously and obviously false. If it wasnt a lie, I'm not sure the alternative is any better. Either way, it definitely wasn't an opinion. As for being a hater, the mental gymnastics to try and discredit a move he broke was pretty ridiculous and does fit that bill.

I really never got particularly defensive, I merely pointed out that for how terrible the guy apparently is, he also broke our one notable free agent signing. It was others who got defensive over that objective fact.

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Old
07-15-2017, 12:10 AM
  #104
KEEROLE Vatanen
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I think Steel or Kossila will start the year in Anaheim.

Rakell is on record saying he rather play wing, he doesn't seem comfortable playing center.

Keslers surgery complicates things. Imagine starting the year with Vermette as the 2c. Yuck.

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07-15-2017, 01:37 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Yup. 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2018 playoffs have all had what appears to be a gaping hole at the 3C. In 2015, one WC Finals team sent parts to Arizona to get Vermette, the other did not. One of those two teams won the Cup, with Vermette scoring a 2OT goal.
I agree. After this 2 year window i bet we are going to be pretty average at best and wishing we made a run at the cup. I dont think we will be bad but i don't think we will have a realistic,shot at winning the cup. And if i look at the team right now I feel we are really close to having the best squad in the league if we just trade some prospects to bring in an elite talent. I would much rather do that and when our window closes we trade off a lot of assets to accumulate young talent and picks then just be good to average for the next 5 years.

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07-15-2017, 09:09 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Murray seems to be of the "try to be competitive every year" mindset.
Or he doesn't think it's either/or. But he hasn't figured out the or part.

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07-15-2017, 03:36 PM
  #107
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Every team goes into the playoffs flawed. The team was good enough the last three years and just didn't get it done. They'll be good enough again next year too. People don't like the Marleau contract, but they want to give up a bunch of assets for marginal rentals ?

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07-15-2017, 03:45 PM
  #108
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Every team goes into the playoffs flawed. The team was good enough the last three years and just didn't get it done. They'll be good enough again next year too. People don't like the Marleau contract, but they want to give up a bunch of assets for marginal rentals ?
Define bunch of assets? Id much rather give up a 2nd or 1st + prospect for a player that we could use for a playoff run rather then pay marleaus 3 year contract.

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07-15-2017, 05:02 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Getz2perry View Post
Define bunch of assets? Id much rather give up a 2nd or 1st + prospect for a player that we could use for a playoff run rather then pay marleaus 3 year contract.
Why?

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07-15-2017, 05:33 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Trojans86 View Post
I agree. After this 2 year window i bet we are going to be pretty average at best and wishing we made a run at the cup. I dont think we will be bad but i don't think we will have a realistic,shot at winning the cup. And if i look at the team right now I feel we are really close to having the best squad in the league if we just trade some prospects to bring in an elite talent. I would much rather do that and when our window closes we trade off a lot of assets to accumulate young talent and picks then just be good to average for the next 5 years.
I disagree with this sentiment. In 3 years we could very well have what the Predators are thriving with right now. Great defense, great goalie and a decent offense. We could possibly be developing one of the best young defenses in the league and one of the best young goalies.

We also have a young offensive core that can supplement our veterans.

Rakell
Silfverberg
Ritchie
Steel
Jones
Terry
Kase

And those are just the bigger names. Add that to our veteran core, a very strong defensive and goalie situation and we will be fine. But to do that, we need to keep our young assets so we can ice a good team of young talent to supplement our higher priced players.

If we sell off our younger cost controlled talent and higher picks, for older more expensive talent, rather than supplementing it, we will begin to lose good players to the salary cap with no replacements available. That will be the beginning of the end and could signal a rebuild. I think our current future is bright enough that we don't need to suffer that fate. I may be seeing the glass half full, but I don't think it's unrealistic.

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Old
07-16-2017, 08:17 AM
  #111
xxreact9
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Originally Posted by The Mighty Duck Man View Post
Elliotte puts out a weekly column of everything he hears, Bob or anyone definitely doesn't report more than he does. Which doesn't mean he's better by any means, but he easily puts himself out there the most(and he probably has to).

Why does he stink? Why did Bob have a tough year? Those kind of comments, with nothing to really support them, baffle me.
Because they're regarded as "Analysts" and put in mainstream moments like NHL playoff game intermissions when they literally add no advanced knowledge to the game. To the casual fan, they might be fine, but they have a disgustingly low level knowledge of the game compared to say NFL panel analysts who usually have tons of depth to discuss.

If they were called "Reporters" and employed as such by TSN and Sportsnet etc, no one would have an issue with them.

But they are heralded as both, reporters, analysts, heroes, almost gods of the sport. When in reality, they have really limited technical knowledge of the game and it shows when they speculate rumors that don't make sense, or simply fail to make anything other than overly safe statements on TV.

And that's the thing with these fake analysts, they do nothing but add "analysis" that is very weak in argument but very low-risk, they discuss glaringly obvious results and making overly vague statements such as "he played great".

There is no specificity or depth when Mckenzie or Friedman is analyzing a NHL playoff game.

They're good because they have sources and they are reporters who can report the news adequately. They were given analyst positions very haphazardly, as with the rest of the sport itself.

I swear, NFL people in the same role add SO much more depth to the game than these glorified journalists, and I'd imagine other pro sports are similar. Ian Rappoport handles all the rumors, and they hire actual analysts to fill the panels.

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Old
07-16-2017, 10:45 AM
  #112
Trojans86
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Originally Posted by 91Fedorov View Post
I disagree with this sentiment. In 3 years we could very well have what the Predators are thriving with right now. Great defense, great goalie and a decent offense. We could possibly be developing one of the best young defenses in the league and one of the best young goalies.

We also have a young offensive core that can supplement our veterans.

Rakell
Silfverberg
Ritchie
Steel
Jones
Terry
Kase

And those are just the bigger names. Add that to our veteran core, a very strong defensive and goalie situation and we will be fine. But to do that, we need to keep our young assets so we can ice a good team of young talent to supplement our higher priced players.

If we sell off our younger cost controlled talent and higher picks, for older more expensive talent, rather than supplementing it, we will begin to lose good players to the salary cap with no replacements available. That will be the beginning of the end and could signal a rebuild. I think our current future is bright enough that we don't need to suffer that fate. I may be seeing the glass half full, but I don't think it's unrealistic.
It is one thing to get to the playoffs and another to actually win the cup. The preds got lucky this year. The blackhawks weren't what they used to be, the ducks had huge injuries to their goalie and top 2 scorers and rhinne played outstanding, and the pensions had no d and still smoked them. I would rather be the blackhawks and sell some futures to get a big piece to win the cup than just aim to make the playoffs for the next 5 years. If we made a big move we could have a great shot at actually winning the cup and then go through a short rebuild where we sell some assets and quickly be back to a competitive team. We could retain some key d pieces and Gibson through the rebuild, accumulate some top draft picks to hopefully find a 1c. We don't have to completely deplete our young assets to bring in an elite talent, probably just move vats and a prospect or pick or both.

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Old
07-16-2017, 01:30 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Trojans86 View Post
It is one thing to get to the playoffs and another to actually win the cup. The preds got lucky this year. The blackhawks weren't what they used to be, the ducks had huge injuries to their goalie and top 2 scorers and rhinne played outstanding, and the pensions had no d and still smoked them. I would rather be the blackhawks and sell some futures to get a big piece to win the cup than just aim to make the playoffs for the next 5 years. If we made a big move we could have a great shot at actually winning the cup and then go through a short rebuild where we sell some assets and quickly be back to a competitive team. We could retain some key d pieces and Gibson through the rebuild, accumulate some top draft picks to hopefully find a 1c. We don't have to completely deplete our young assets to bring in an elite talent, probably just move vats and a prospect or pick or both.
If we make a hockey trade to pick up an elite talent under contract during the offseason, then I could support that though we might have problems fitting such a contract under our cap.

I've never liked the big TDL deals because they are such a crapshoot. It's either win the Cup or bust, and there just as much luck with players staying healthy as skill to actually hoist it. We got lucky this year with Eaves, though not lucky enough to keep him healthy through the playoffs. Look at how many guys we had playing injured at the wrong time of year. I'd rather build a team with regular season success and a chance in the playoffs rather than mortgage the future to try and catch lightning in a bottle.

In other words, since 2007 I'd rather be the Ducks winning one SC and making the playoffs with regular season success every year than the Kings who won two SCs but miss the playoffs regularly even as they try to make big TDL deals every year that don't work out well.

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Old
07-16-2017, 01:44 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
If we make a hockey trade to pick up an elite talent under contract during the offseason, then I could support that though we might have problems fitting such a contract under our cap.

I've never liked the big TDL deals because they are such a crapshoot. It's either win the Cup or bust, and there just as much luck with players staying healthy as skill to actually hoist it. We got lucky this year with Eaves, though not lucky enough to keep him healthy through the playoffs. Look at how many guys we had playing injured at the wrong time of year. I'd rather build a team with regular season success and a chance in the playoffs rather than mortgage the future to try and catch lightning in a bottle.

In other words, since 2007 I'd rather be the Ducks winning one SC and making the playoffs with regular season success every year than the Kings who won two SCs but miss the playoffs regularly even as they try to make big TDL deals every year that don't work out well.
We won the cup because we brought in an elite talent in pronger so that year is an example of trading futures to win now. To win the cup you usually need a ridiculous roster. We aren't there yet but close.

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07-16-2017, 01:52 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Trojans86 View Post
It is one thing to get to the playoffs and another to actually win the cup. The preds got lucky this year. The blackhawks weren't what they used to be, the ducks had huge injuries to their goalie and top 2 scorers and rhinne played outstanding, and the pensions had no d and still smoked them. I would rather be the blackhawks and sell some futures to get a big piece to win the cup than just aim to make the playoffs for the next 5 years. If we made a big move we could have a great shot at actually winning the cup and then go through a short rebuild where we sell some assets and quickly be back to a competitive team. We could retain some key d pieces and Gibson through the rebuild, accumulate some top draft picks to hopefully find a 1c. We don't have to completely deplete our young assets to bring in an elite talent, probably just move vats and a prospect or pick or both.
If you want the ducks to be like the Blackhawks, you need to wind back the clock 10 years and find us a couple of elite players that we can sign to cap circumventing contracts.

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07-16-2017, 02:32 PM
  #116
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And then get some allergic reaction to wearing hockey gloves...

And Nashville didn't get "lucky". I hate when we say that, Chicago wasn't what they used to be? Still #1 overall seed. Sure Anaheim had injuries, but so did they. We lost. Get over it

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07-16-2017, 04:57 PM
  #117
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Per Friedman, the reason we didn`t land Marleau was because we couldn`t afford bonuses that Toronto was able to afford. If Toronto paid what they did, I assume we were still ready to give him pretty big contract. Glad we didn`t end up paying him that contract though. And glad to hear Bob is seriously trying to upgrade something. Looks like only a trade will be able to give us a somewhat serious upgrade though, but not sure Bob is ready to give up any significant asset that we have. A lot of pieces have to fall in place now.
I posted this previously. Apparently ducks ownership is not willing to give the big bonuses - it is not clear to me if that is because of cash flow issues or because the bonuses have to be paid even if there's a strike/work stoppage (or possibly both). But compared to a team like Toronto - where $$ doesn't matter - this is a definite disadvantage for Anaheim (not to mention higher state income taxes compared to Florida/Texas and other places).


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Friedman has been garbage for a while now. Sure, I can't see our organization dishing out a $7 million signing bonus to a 37-year-old, but I also can't see our organization giving Marleau $6.25 million AAV and a full NMC in the first place. I don't think we even had the cap space to make that happen, even if Bob had surrefed a mental lapse of some sort and decided to just go through with it. And if Bob WAS planning on giving Marleau a 3-year deal of some sort, I really hope he feels shame in a year or two, when he sees how far Marleau has declined and how bad that contract turned out to be.

Anyway, I'm very glad that this Marleau saga is over and done, and that the Ducks weren't the team that ended up "getting" him.
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If Bob was really thinking of giving Marleau anything in the realm of what Toronto did then I take back any praise I gave him for standing pat(no pun). The possibility that he almost took on another garbage contract right after getting rid of Stoner's would be disheartening to say the least.
My understanding is that the ducks did not offer the AAV that toronto did. But they did over 3 years and were surprisingly close (much closer than I would have guessed). Personally, I'm glad they didn't sign him as I see the contract as being a problem that the Ducks wouldn't be able to deal with in years 2-3.

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Originally Posted by Trojans86 View Post
We won the cup because we brought in an elite talent in pronger so that year is an example of trading futures to win now. To win the cup you usually need a ridiculous roster. We aren't there yet but close.
Pronger was a generational talent who was signed to a relatively long term deal. It was a no brainer - particularly when you consider what the ducks sent to Edmonton in return. A good example of the general rule - the team that gets the best player almost always wins the trade.

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07-17-2017, 05:57 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Trojans86 View Post
We won the cup because we brought in an elite talent in pronger so that year is an example of trading futures to win now. To win the cup you usually need a ridiculous roster. We aren't there yet but close.
IMO our roster isn't that far off. We're a middle-6 center, perhaps also a rock solid 3rd pairing LHD away from having an outstanding roster. What we needed last spring was to not collapse in games 5 and 6, which we failed to do. We don't necessarily need to find "a Pronger", or to invest a ton of futures into a "ridiculous roster".

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07-17-2017, 06:57 AM
  #119
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We might have been able to get past Nashville with Gibson in net, but I doub`t we would have won Pitsburgh.
Duchene would make us premium contenders but we all know how unrealistic is that we could land him

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07-17-2017, 07:01 AM
  #120
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We might have been able to get past Nashville with Gibson in net, but I doub`t we would have won Pitsburgh.
Duchene would make us premium contenders but we all know how unrealistic is that we could land him
I think provided we had Rakell and Gibson back we would have beaten Pittsburgh, I think a healthy Nashville beats Pittsburgh too. We have a better countering 1-2 centre punch than Nashville did and a miles better blueline than the Pens.

This was the weakest cup winning team since 2006.

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07-17-2017, 09:42 AM
  #121
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I think provided we had Rakell and Gibson back we would have beaten Pittsburgh, I think a healthy Nashville beats Pittsburgh too. We have a better countering 1-2 centre punch than Nashville did and a miles better blueline than the Pens.

This was the weakest cup winning team since 2006.
And if Pitsburgh had their #1D healthy then...

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07-17-2017, 10:35 AM
  #122
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IMO our roster isn't that far off. We're a middle-6 center, perhaps also a rock solid 3rd pairing LHD away from having an outstanding roster. What we needed last spring was to not collapse in games 5 and 6, which we failed to do. We don't necessarily need to find "a Pronger", or to invest a ton of futures into a "ridiculous roster".
I don't think the team collapsed in game 6, I think a certain goalie did. We definitely controlled the pace of that game and should have easily won that game, but we didn't and are where we are. Game 5 was the braking game imho. We took our foot of the pedal, especially after Wagner put us up. That being said, we had 2 30 goal scorers out of the lineup and our 2nd scoring center was playing extremely injured and not effective offensively as a result. Injuries happen, but that was to 3 of the top 4 goal scorers on our roster and nearly impossible to overcome. Do people forget our top line in those games was Kase-Getzlaf-Ritchie and the third line was Kerdiles-Thompson-Perry? I like Kerdiles, but he was in over his head being thrust into the NHL when he was. Thompson is a 4C and Perry wasn't nearly as effective as in years past. We can speculate why, but that's not a 3rd line on a cup winning team. I love Ritchie and Kase, but those are the guys that are typically a 3rd line on a cup winning team with a young up and coming C as well. I'm not trying to make excuses and I still think we should have beaten Nashville, but there is reason to believe we can compete for the cup if those things didn't happen or don't happen this next season. A couple injuries you can overcome and it's also who those injuries happen to. 3 of your top 4 goal scorers and your goalie get hurt, it's a recipe for disaster. Not to mention 2 of your top 3 Dmen are playing with 1 shoulder. The D is still very young, so every year they should be progressing, which is also a good thing and means are D will continue to get better even though they are one of the top units in the league. I'm fine with how our roster looks right now. I really want a scoring 3C, but we might wait to see how Steel/Carrick/Kossila look before looking elsewhere.

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07-17-2017, 10:37 AM
  #123
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I have an honest question about Sam Steel. I really don't know the answer as I've never actually seen him play. Comparing Steel to Patrick and Hischier, would Steel have been the 1st overall pick this year? Here are a couple observations, please let me know if I'm off on any of them.

Patrick was considered the consensus #1 pick until Hischier was picked.
Patrick likely dropped to #2 because of his injury history.
Patrick played in the WHL and scored around 1.5 PPG this year and last.
Steel played in the WHL and scored around 2 PPG this year.

During the draft, the hosts said that Patrick and Hischier were the only two players in this draft that could come in and contribute immediately.

Here are my questions;

Would Steel have been picked 1st overall if he was drafted this year?
Should Steel be considered a better player than Patrick at this point?
Since he outscored him by 33%, shouldn't Steel be considered more NHL ready than Patrick?

I've seen a lot of people here say that they think Steel will not be ready this year. Why not?

Again, it's an honest question. I'm not posing it to argue against those that have said he isn't ready. I'd just like some insight into why.

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Old
07-17-2017, 11:13 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by 91Fedorov View Post
I have an honest question about Sam Steel. I really don't know the answer as I've never actually seen him play. Comparing Steel to Patrick and Hischier, would Steel have been the 1st overall pick this year? Here are a couple observations, please let me know if I'm off on any of them.

Patrick was considered the consensus #1 pick until Hischier was picked.
Patrick likely dropped to #2 because of his injury history.
Patrick played in the WHL and scored around 1.5 PPG this year and last.
Steel played in the WHL and scored around 2 PPG this year.

During the draft, the hosts said that Patrick and Hischier were the only two players in this draft that could come in and contribute immediately.

Here are my questions;

Would Steel have been picked 1st overall if he was drafted this year?
Should Steel be considered a better player than Patrick at this point?
Since he outscored him by 33%, shouldn't Steel be considered more NHL ready than Patrick?

I've seen a lot of people here say that they think Steel will not be ready this year. Why not?

Again, it's an honest question. I'm not posing it to argue against those that have said he isn't ready. I'd just like some insight into why.
I haven't seen enough of him to answer the question, but from what others said, he would have been top 5. I think several said this a few weeks/months ago.

As for why he's not ready: I think it's more of we don't want to rush him than anything.

I'm of the mind that if you're eligible to still go back to juniors, you do it unless you're clearly just too good for it, and absolutely NHL ready. I think Murray has made mistakes in the past and kept some guys here that were here simply because they were the best options. Sbisa was penciled in right off the bat. DSP was here at times when he shouldn't have been.

If Steel earns a spot in camp and impresses enough those first 9 games, then he should be here. However, there's a reason this doesn't happen very often.

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07-17-2017, 11:18 AM
  #125
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I`ll just add that comparing draft and draft +1 years are absurd.

Comparison.

Ryan O`Reilly scored 66p in 68g in his draft year
Emerson Etem scored 80p in 65g in his draft+1 year

Look at them now. Etem is in the NHL if he`s lucky. O`Reily is a 50 point reliable two way player

There are some more aspects into it, I just pointed out the most obvious. Don`t compare draft and draft+1 years. And also, player types are different. Etem was a way better player in the WHL than Getzlaf ever was. Point wise at least that is. Oh well, right?
So I pointed out 2, imo, main things

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