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Montreal's Cap Space

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Old
07-17-2017, 06:43 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
How? you traded your best trade chip to get Drouin
Galchenyuk? Patches? Gallagher?

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Old
07-17-2017, 07:06 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Montreal fan here saying: uuuuugggggghhhhhhh.

Bourque? Seriously?
I think most Habs fans would agree Bourque is not a major prospect for us. He may surprise us but it's not very probable he becomes a top 4D. However, I think the point of his post had merits. Habs do have prospects to use in trades. Anybody trying to sell this is not being realistic.

Our top prospects: Lindgren, Hudon, McCarron, DLR, Scherbak, Juulsen, Mete, Bitten, Poehling, Ikonen.

Next group: Lernout, Bitten, Reway, Evans, Bourque, Addison, Vejdemo, Walford, Fleury, McNiven, Audette

Yeah, we don't have top 10 picks but these types of prospects are rarely traded anyways. The group we have lacks the elite level superstar type but there are plenty of guys who teams would target in trades.

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07-17-2017, 07:15 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
I think most Habs fans would agree Bourque is not a major prospect for us. He may surprise us but it's not very probable he becomes a top 4D. However, I think the point of his post had merits. Habs do have prospects to use in trades. Anybody trying to sell this is not being realistic.

Our top prospects: Lindgren, Hudon, McCarron, DLR, Scherbak, Juulsen, Mete, Bitten, Poehling, Ikonen.

Next group: Lernout, Bitten, Reway, Evans, Bourque, Addison, Vejdemo, Walford, Fleury, McNiven, Audette

Yeah, we don't have top 10 picks but these types of prospects are rarely traded anyways. The group we have lacks the elite level superstar type but there are plenty of guys who teams would target in trades.
Every team has prospects, and those prospects seem pretty basic.

If the trade target is a #1C Montreal looks pretty easy team to beat in bidding wars.

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07-17-2017, 07:16 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
I think most Habs fans would agree Bourque is not a major prospect for us. He may surprise us but it's not very probable he becomes a top 4D. However, I think the point of his post had merits. Habs do have prospects to use in trades. Anybody trying to sell this is not being realistic.

Our top prospects: Lindgren, Hudon, McCarron, DLR, Scherbak, Juulsen, Mete, Bitten, Poehling, Ikonen.

Next group: Lernout, Bitten, Reway, Evans, Bourque, Addison, Vejdemo, Walford, Fleury, McNiven, Audette

Yeah, we don't have top 10 picks but these types of prospects are rarely traded anyways. The group we have lacks the elite level superstar type but there are plenty of guys who teams would target in trades.
The only one with high end talent is Ikonen. They others will be middle 6 forwards and bottom 4 Dmen.

But if Ikonen reaches his ceiling and Poehling and Hudon cand play 2nd line, it isn't frankly that bad of a situation for Habs prospect pool. You cannot hope for golden prospect pool when you always finish in top tier standing.

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07-17-2017, 07:20 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BB88 View Post
Every team has prospects, and those prospects seem pretty basic.

If the trade target is a #1C Montreal looks pretty easy team to beat in bidding wars.
Habs won't get #1C except for drafting him. And that will only happen if Price gets seriously injured again and misses an entire season. It's kind of cheap but i hope it happens soon enough so we can draft that player before Price and Weber are done.

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07-17-2017, 07:36 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Benstheman View Post
Habs won't get #1C except for drafting him. And that will only happen if Price gets seriously injured again and misses an entire season. It's kind of cheap but i hope it happens soon enough so we can draft that player before Price and Weber are done.
That's the problem with them.

It's their win time and they basically have no way of getting a #1C to fit Webers/Prices' window.

I know it hurts but that's when you should do a re-tool, I wanted it with the Bruins and it looks much better now than few years ago, when it looked hopeless. Still work to do but atleast there's hope.

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07-17-2017, 08:11 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB88 View Post
Every team has prospects, and those prospects seem pretty basic.

If the trade target is a #1C Montreal looks pretty easy team to beat in bidding wars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benstheman View Post
The only one with high end talent is Ikonen. They others will be middle 6 forwards and bottom 4 Dmen.

But if Ikonen reaches his ceiling and Poehling and Hudon cand play 2nd line, it isn't frankly that bad of a situation for Habs prospect pool. You cannot hope for golden prospect pool when you always finish in top tier standing.
You take away the top 10 teams in the league who have the best prospects group and you will find the rest of the league have a similar group of prospects that I have posted about the Habs.

Mete, Bitten, Poehling, Ikonen have legit shots at making the World Juniors. Juulsen played very well last year for Canada in a shut down role.

Most people gravitate towards negative projection with most of our prospects and some are valid points. However, the Habs are middle of the pack with our prospect group. I have us ranked somewhere from 12-18 range in the NHL. Drafting 5 top 100 picks in the last draft certainly helped! This whole thinking that our group is one of the worse in the league is not realistic.

Furthermore, 1st round picks are worth a lot in today's NHL. Especially in 2018 which is expected to be a deep draft. Habs can offer various future picks in any trades as well. This package is a very serious package...

- Poehling or Ikonen
- Lindgren or McNiven
- Hudon or Scherbak
- Juulsen or Mete
- 2018 1st and 2nd.
- 2019 1st.


Last edited by Habaholicgolfer: 07-17-2017 at 08:17 AM.
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07-17-2017, 08:19 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
I think most Habs fans would agree Bourque is not a major prospect for us. He may surprise us but it's not very probable he becomes a top 4D. However, I think the point of his post had merits. Habs do have prospects to use in trades. Anybody trying to sell this is not being realistic.

Our top prospects: Lindgren, Hudon, McCarron, DLR, Scherbak, Juulsen, Mete, Bitten, Poehling, Ikonen.

Next group: Lernout, Bitten, Reway, Evans, Bourque, Addison, Vejdemo, Walford, Fleury, McNiven, Audette

Yeah, we don't have top 10 picks but these types of prospects are rarely traded anyways. The group we have lacks the elite level superstar type but there are plenty of guys who teams would target in trades.
We do have prospects. They don't have a tonne of value, however. Hudon was left unclaimed for example. Not even habs fans value Scherbak highly at this point. Lindgren and McNiven are great goaltending prospects, but those just don't have value until they shut down the AHL at the least (e.g. Martin Jones). and even then we're talking about a 1st round pick in return, not a top 6 center.

Juulsen and Mete probably have some value, but again, probably not enough for a player I would care about, and what happens to our LD depth in that scenario. It becomes worse than our organizational center depth all of a sudden.

We're kind of stuck, IMO, which is why I don't agree with the premise of this thread: our cap space isn't much of an asset right now.

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07-17-2017, 08:24 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
You take away the top 10 teams in the league who have the best prospects group and you will find the rest of the league have a similar group of prospects that I have posted about the Habs.

Mete, Bitten, Poehling, Ikonen have legit shots at making the World Juniors. Juulsen played very well last year for Canada in a shut down role.

Most people gravitate towards negative projection with most of our prospects and some are valid points. However, the Habs are middle of the pack with our prospect group. I have us ranked somewhere from 12-18 range in the NHL. Drafting 5 top 100 picks in the last draft certainly helped! This whole thinking that our group is one of the worse in the league is not realistic.

Furthermore, 1st round picks are worth a lot in today's NHL. Especially in 2018 which is expected to be a deep draft. Habs can offer various future picks in any trades as well. This package is a very serious package...

- Poehling or Ikonen
- Lindgren or McNiven
- Hudon or Scherbak
- Juulsen or Mete
- 2018 1st and 2nd.
- 2019 1st.
Not really, #1C's don't get traded for 5 pieces.

#1D's& #1C's are the most difficult to get from trade market, not every team have the assets to make trades for them.
Montreal is one of those teams, Serg could have had that value.

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Old
07-17-2017, 08:27 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BB88 View Post
Not really, #1C's don't get traded for 5 pieces.

#1D's& #1C's are the most difficult to get from trade market, not every team have the assets to make trades for them.
Montreal is one of those teams, Serg could have had that value.
People keep bringing up Sergachev like he was just released for free. You don't think if they really wanted to that they could trade Drouin in a package for a 1C? They probably tried to dangle Serge for one but no one bit.

They have to be creative. There can't be a retool unless Price gets hurt as he will prevent any kind of tanking on his own.

They need to break the mould and use the cap space towards an offersheet. It's really their only shot. Enough of this Old Boys Club. It's as bad as the enforcer "Code".

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07-17-2017, 09:13 AM
  #111
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Not really, #1C's don't get traded for 5 pieces.

#1D's& #1C's are the most difficult to get from trade market, not every team have the assets to make trades for them.
Montreal is one of those teams, Serg could have had that value.
Never say never. Habs would love a legit #1C but will also target a top 2 center. The whole point is there are many ways to negotiate a trade with various assets. As a Habs fan, I take offense with others saying we have nothing to trade with. It's just not true.

Offer sheets are coming. Teams have less options with making upgrades and some teams will have cap issues. In case you didn't notice, the 5 pieces I showed as an example had 5 1st round picks. I wonder what this gets you in an offer sheet?

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07-17-2017, 09:20 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
How? you traded your best trade chip to get Drouin
It's on him

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07-17-2017, 09:21 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
We do have prospects. They don't have a tonne of value, however. Hudon was left unclaimed for example. Not even habs fans value Scherbak highly at this point. Lindgren and McNiven are great goaltending prospects, but those just don't have value until they shut down the AHL at the least (e.g. Martin Jones). and even then we're talking about a 1st round pick in return, not a top 6 center.

Juulsen and Mete probably have some value, but again, probably not enough for a player I would care about, and what happens to our LD depth in that scenario. It becomes worse than our organizational center depth all of a sudden.

We're kind of stuck, IMO, which is why I don't agree with the premise of this thread: our cap space isn't much of an asset right now.
It is an asset if we use it correctly. We don't need to spend that cap space just because either. RFA offer sheets are coming... the stars are aligning for it to become a thing in the next few years with various young elite level players needing contracts and various teams up against the cap.

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07-17-2017, 09:25 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
Never say never. Habs would love a legit #1C but will also target a top 2 center. The whole point is there are many ways to negotiate a trade with various assets. As a Habs fan, I take offense with others saying we have nothing to trade with. It's just not true.

Offer sheets are coming. Teams have less options with making upgrades and some teams will have cap issues. In case you didn't notice, the 5 pieces I showed as an example had 5 1st round picks. I wonder what this gets you in an offer sheet?
You don't have anything to trade, when it comes to acquiring a 1C. That is most likely true, as you still don't have one. You need to give up high end pieces to get some back, and as things currently are, Montreal doesn't seem to have a trade chip good enough to get that much needed center back.

And as for the bolded statement, that's a poor argument. Draft position loses its meaning seconds after the player has been selected in the draft. As a Jets fan, I could try to sell Dano, Armia, Stanley and Vesalainen as four first rounders. I would be very wrong, and so are you with your offer.

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07-17-2017, 09:29 AM
  #115
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Bergevin's not done, a 1C is on the way somehow..
Trust me, it's not.

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07-17-2017, 09:30 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Maukkis View Post
You don't have anything to trade, when it comes to acquiring a 1C. That is most likely true, as you still don't have one. You need to give up high end pieces to get some back, and as things currently are, Montreal doesn't seem to have a trade chip good enough to get that much needed center back.

And as for the bolded statement, that's a poor argument. Draft position loses its meaning seconds after the player has been selected in the draft. As a Jets fan, I could try to sell Dano, Armia, Stanley and Vesalainen as four first rounders. I would be very wrong, and so are you with your offer.
Galchenyuk, 2018 1st, 2018 2nd, prospect. How's that sound? Come on man. Stop it with the nothing to trade from.

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07-17-2017, 09:32 AM
  #117
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I expect Drouin to be tried at Center and somehow expect RNH to the habs to save future cap for the Oil, High Pick(s), top prospect and Pleky going back.


Pacioretty - Nugent-Hopkins - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - Drouin - Shaw
Lehkonen - Danault - Hemsky
Byron - McCarron - Mitchell

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07-17-2017, 09:34 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
Galchenyuk, 2018 1st, 2018 2nd, prospect. How's that sound? Come on man. Stop it with the nothing to trade from.
That would be enough for a 2nd line C.

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07-17-2017, 09:38 AM
  #119
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Trust me, it's not.
I don't trust you

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07-17-2017, 09:41 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
Galchenyuk, 2018 1st, 2018 2nd, prospect. How's that sound? Come on man. Stop it with the nothing to trade from.
The bolded was the asking price for Brayden Schenn, to put your offer into perspective.

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07-17-2017, 09:45 AM
  #121
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I don't trust you
You don't think me as as a leaf fan knows it's just about impossible to trade for a 1C? We had Stajan/Bozak as a 1C for a damn decade

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07-17-2017, 09:49 AM
  #122
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You don't think me as as a leaf fan knows it's just about impossible to trade for a 1C? We had Stajan/Bozak as a 1C for a damn decade
lol

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07-17-2017, 09:51 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
The bolded was the asking price for Brayden Schenn, to put your offer into perspective.
I don' think that's accurate. At all, really. I would have easily swapped them 1:1, or maybe even added something small, simply because Gally would probably make a better LW than Schenn would have.

Montreal has pieces of value. The problem is that they have very specific assets and are trying to acquire a 1C. There aren't too many teams that have a spare 1C around AND need the assets that Montreal has, that's the issue, or at least as I see it.

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07-17-2017, 09:51 AM
  #124
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People keep bringing up Sergachev like he was just released for free. You don't think if they really wanted to that they could trade Drouin in a package for a 1C? They probably tried to dangle Serge for one but no one bit.

They have to be creative. There can't be a retool unless Price gets hurt as he will prevent any kind of tanking on his own.

They need to break the mould and use the cap space towards an offersheet. It's really their only shot. Enough of this Old Boys Club. It's as bad as the enforcer "Code".
When targeting a #1C #1D prospect is better than a winger.
It's not wise to trade #1C's for multiple lesser assets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
Never say never. Habs would love a legit #1C but will also target a top 2 center. The whole point is there are many ways to negotiate a trade with various assets. As a Habs fan, I take offense with others saying we have nothing to trade with. It's just not true.

Offer sheets are coming. Teams have less options with making upgrades and some teams will have cap issues. In case you didn't notice, the 5 pieces I showed as an example had 5 1st round picks. I wonder what this gets you in an offer sheet?
I'm sorry to say this but there are ton of teams with better assets than Montreal, and if a good C becomes available there will always be bidding wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
Galchenyuk, 2018 1st, 2018 2nd, prospect. How's that sound? Come on man. Stop it with the nothing to trade from.
That shouldn't bring you back a elite C.


Last edited by BB88: 07-17-2017 at 10:00 AM.
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07-17-2017, 10:01 AM
  #125
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I don' think that's accurate. At all, really. I would have easily swapped them 1:1, or maybe even added something small, simply because Gally would probably make a better LW than Schenn would have.
That was the rumour reported. Value wise it's a lot closer 1:1, but a few weeks ago half the NHL was trying to ''buy low'' on Galchenyuk: that is, swindle us. Galchenyuk has to play some hockey for his value to go back up.

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Originally Posted by Starat327 View Post
Montreal has pieces of value. The problem is that they have very specific assets and are trying to acquire a 1C. There aren't too many teams that have a spare 1C around AND need the assets that Montreal has, that's the issue, or at least as I see it.
Well said. We're trying to trade for water in a desert. We have to have something good, that we don't mind parting with, for a 1C that another team doesn't mind parting with.

I don't see it.

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