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Old
07-14-2017, 07:08 PM
  #426
oobga
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
I love the fact Leaf fans are backing up Lou for every decision he made and they make him look like a genius because he has Matthews, Marner and Nylander. Umm, they were on the team BEFORE Lou...And Lou is screwing the Leafs cap wise with some of the deals he's done so far. At least we aren't handcuffed like they will be in 2 years
I wonder how much say Babcock has in management now. Might have been one of his conditions of signing there. He loves his old vets, and likely felt the lack of them is what cost them last season. The Babs is sick of losing staining his legacy. He is accelerating things to win yesterday mode!

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07-14-2017, 07:20 PM
  #427
BoldNewLettuce
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
I love the fact Leaf fans are backing up Lou for every decision he made and they make him look like a genius because he has Matthews, Marner and Nylander. Umm, they were on the team BEFORE Lou...And Lou is screwing the Leafs cap wise with some of the deals he's done so far. At least we aren't handcuffed like they will be in 2 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oobga View Post
I wonder how much say Babcock has in management now. Might have been one of his conditions of signing there. He loves his old vets, and likely felt the lack of them is what cost them last season. The Babs is sick of losing staining his legacy. He is accelerating things to win yesterday mode!
yeah.

I find the players they just added to be pretty meh aside from Zaitsev. Then you factor in overpayments and start to giggle a bit.

Zaitsev is sneaky bad in the context of.....why 7 years???

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Old
07-16-2017, 04:53 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
yeah.

I find the players they just added to be pretty meh aside from Zaitsev. Then you factor in overpayments and start to giggle a bit.

Zaitsev is sneaky bad in the context of.....why 7 years???
Ive come to hate everything leafs since McDavid. Media, players, management, and especially the fans. To be fair I never liked them before McDavid either.

I did not watch as much Eastern hockey as I usually do. What I see on paper is a team that should not have made the playoffs last year and still should not. But they did last year and in theroy they got a tiny bit better.

Too much of thier success seemed luck based and it would please me to see that franchise take a big ol giant leap backwards. Softmore slumps all around for the Leafs please.

I got to think some of thier success is just from being underestimated. If they get taken seriously I imagine a few of these 5 - 4 type games they manage to win will stop happening.

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07-17-2017, 08:37 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Ive come to hate everything leafs since McDavid. Media, players, management, and especially the fans. To be fair I never liked them before McDavid either.

I did not watch as much Eastern hockey as I usually do. What I see on paper is a team that should not have made the playoffs last year and still should not. But they did last year and in theroy they got a tiny bit better.

Too much of thier success seemed luck based and it would please me to see that franchise take a big ol giant leap backwards. Softmore slumps all around for the Leafs please.

I got to think some of thier success is just from being underestimated. If they get taken seriously I imagine a few of these 5 - 4 type games they manage to win will stop happening.
I actually want Marner to outscore Matthews so their fanbase goes bonkers And then Matthews wanting 10+ M

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Old
07-17-2017, 09:12 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
I actually want Marner to outscore Matthews so their fanbase goes bonkers And then Matthews wanting 10+ M
Best case

Matthews: 40G - 30A - 70P
Marner: 25G - 50A - 75P

Matthews, as a 2 time 40 goal scorer right out of the draft wants 11.5M AAV. Marner, who technically outscored Matthews, wants the same. They get together and decide to be like Kane/Toews, tied to the hip demanding the same pay day from the Leafs org. Then they become consistent 60-70 point guys

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Old
07-17-2017, 11:18 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by oobga View Post
Best case

Matthews: 40G - 30A - 70P
Marner: 25G - 50A - 75P

Matthews, as a 2 time 40 goal scorer right out of the draft wants 11.5M AAV. Marner, who technically outscored Matthews, wants the same. They get together and decide to be like Kane/Toews, tied to the hip demanding the same pay day from the Leafs org. Then they become consistent 60-70 point guys
Yep. Cue TSN "Wow, looks like the Leafs might have 2 Generational Players on hand"

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Old
07-17-2017, 11:36 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
Yep. Cue TSN "Wow, looks like the Leafs might have 2 Generational Players on hand"
I am more than happy to support those claims until those 2nd generational tier contracts are signed. Then back to bashing

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Old
07-18-2017, 02:25 PM
  #433
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Interesting looking to Craig Custance on Oilers Now, talking about how Detroit might be deciding to take a step back from how they "overripen" their prospects for the simple reason that they no longer a handful of HOF players that allowed them that luxury.

I guess even Detroit might not be following the Detroit model for much longer, now that they're no longer a playoff surety.

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Old
07-18-2017, 03:23 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Interesting looking to Craig Custance on Oilers Now, talking about how Detroit might be deciding to take a step back from how they "overripen" their prospects for the simple reason that they no longer a handful of HOF players that allowed them that luxury.

I guess even Detroit might not be following the Detroit model for much longer, now that they're no longer a playoff surety.
I don't get why you need HOF players to do it. If you are that bad why not just sign 3 or 4 NHL vets to cheaper contracts?

I mean if there is someone that is ready to be in the NHL so be it, but I hope they don't plan on doing the opposite of what they use to.

I do wonder one thing about the whole overripen. In the Tatar thread there was talk that he wants to get paid because he spent a lot of time in the AHL not earning. Wonder if that's playing a bit into it. That they don't want to have guys souring spending so much time in the AHL. Then again it's really hard to say that Tatar would've made more money if he was in the NHL sooner.

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Old
07-18-2017, 04:33 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't get why you need HOF players to do it. If you are that bad why not just sign 3 or 4 NHL vets to cheaper contracts?

I mean if there is someone that is ready to be in the NHL so be it, but I hope they don't plan on doing the opposite of what they use to.

I do wonder one thing about the whole overripen. In the Tatar thread there was talk that he wants to get paid because he spent a lot of time in the AHL not earning. Wonder if that's playing a bit into it. That they don't want to have guys souring spending so much time in the AHL. Then again it's really hard to say that Tatar would've made more money if he was in the NHL sooner.
I could be mistaken, but I imagine that in the past Detroit followed the "overripen" method because they were able to ice an elite team without needing young players. In the past they could afford to both be good and leave prospects to develop in the minors. Now they're in a position where their prospects they'd normally leave in the minors are needed to actually be a semi-decent team.

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Old
07-18-2017, 05:00 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I do wonder one thing about the whole overripen. In the Tatar thread there was talk that he wants to get paid because he spent a lot of time in the AHL not earning. Wonder if that's playing a bit into it. That they don't want to have guys souring spending so much time in the AHL. Then again it's really hard to say that Tatar would've made more money if he was in the NHL sooner.
I agree, but I think it's not a stretch to think that at least some guys would start getting annoyed if they feel their parent team is screwing them out of literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in potential salary because they want to "overripen" you, if you feel you're good enough to play in the NHL on at least some of the 31 teams in the NHL.

The team could argue that in the long term this philosophy would turn him into a better player that could command more money as his career progresses, but as a player I'd think it would be hard to think in those terms, especially in a career where your big earning days could be a lot shorter than you think.

At the end of the day, this is their livelihoods and there's only so much time to make your payday.

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Old
07-18-2017, 05:13 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Interesting looking to Craig Custance on Oilers Now, talking about how Detroit might be deciding to take a step back from how they "overripen" their prospects for the simple reason that they no longer a handful of HOF players that allowed them that luxury.

I guess even Detroit might not be following the Detroit model for much longer, now that they're no longer a playoff surety.
I could go on and on about the Detroit model. It was a total sham and the most overrated ideology on HF. Detroit basically got extremely lucky drafting in late 90s (seriously look at the drafts before and after Datsyuk and Zetterberg and how bad Detroits picks were) and in mid 2000s. They didn't identify good players and let them overripen in AHL, they picked crappy players who played for a long time in the AHL because they were not that good, but a select few did turn out due to luck

This continues to 2010s when nyquist, pulkinnen, etc were all deemed to be these future studs because they followed Datsyuks long development. But they were just really there for so long because they weren't all that good

The theory of over development is dangerous and foolish at times. The best development is challenging players at the higher level even if they may not be 100% ready. Nothing beats NHL experience. I have no Suprise that Detroit is now rushing prospects thru the pipeline, for example pulling cholowski our of school after one year to go pro. Even Detroit realized their system was not smart and only possible due to the old guard being so good for so long

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Old
07-18-2017, 10:24 PM
  #438
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The real Detroit model
  • Miss the playoffs 14 out of 16 years in a league where ~66% of the teams make the playoffs
  • Draft 5th, 4th, 1st, 9th and 3rd in consecutive years with nothing to show for it
  • Draft some scrawny kid from Cranbrook 4th overall
  • Still do nothing with him
  • Draft a 7 time Norris winner in the third round
  • Waste a bunch of picks on Russians before the end of the Cold War but get lucky because they manage to defect
  • About a decade later get lucky with a 6th rounder and a 7th rounder in back to back drafts
  • Be based in a traditional American hockey market before the salary cap so you can keep all of this talent for over a decade before winning anything
  • Sign additional players with your large budget as required
  • Stop being a cup contender when your 7 time Norris winner retires

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Old
07-19-2017, 12:46 AM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Interesting looking to Craig Custance on Oilers Now, talking about how Detroit might be deciding to take a step back from how they "overripen" their prospects for the simple reason that they no longer a handful of HOF players that allowed them that luxury.

I guess even Detroit might not be following the Detroit model for much longer, now that they're no longer a playoff surety.
The whole "Detroit model" was so stupid.

When you get lucky drafting some HOF'ers, had a big budget before, of course you don't throw young guys in. There is not much room for them and you picked those guys late.

Holland has said numerous times if he had picked at the top he probably would have started a new draft pick with the team.

It's media sensationalism. They don't have any top stars to ride anymore.

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Old
07-19-2017, 03:47 AM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
The real Detroit model
  • Miss the playoffs 14 out of 16 years in a league where ~66% of the teams make the playoffs
  • Draft 5th, 4th, 1st, 9th and 3rd in consecutive years with nothing to show for it
  • Draft some scrawny kid from Cranbrook 4th overall
  • Still do nothing with him
  • Draft a 7 time Norris winner in the third round
  • Waste a bunch of picks on Russians before the end of the Cold War but get lucky because they manage to defect
  • About a decade later get lucky with a 6th rounder and a 7th rounder in back to back drafts
  • Be based in a traditional American hockey market before the salary cap so you can keep all of this talent for over a decade before winning anything
  • Sign additional players with your large budget as required
  • Stop being a cup contender when your 7 time Norris winner retires
Nailed it.

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Old
07-19-2017, 09:36 AM
  #441
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The shift from a cerebral game to a speed game made it less important to season high-end prospects in the AHL, anyway. Physical maturity and experience have actually never mattered less in the NHL relative to speed and skill.

Which is why teenagers are WAY more common in the NHL the last few years.

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Old
07-19-2017, 03:32 PM
  #442
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Players are more "cerebral" than ever these days. Bigger too.

I suspect more teenagers is likely due to the salary cap crunch and the need to have cheap guys produce in your lineup.

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Old
07-19-2017, 04:09 PM
  #443
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Ugh this offseason couldn't go any slower...

Nylander a Superstar, somewhere between Eichel and Draisaitl...

Hamilton a juggernaut while Klefbom is an Offensive Defenceman with defensive liabilities...

Larsson a #4 and a below average defenseman...

Matthews and Marner will get 90+ points next year...


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07-19-2017, 04:10 PM
  #444
BoldNewLettuce
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Players are more "cerebral" than ever these days. Bigger too.

I suspect more teenagers is likely due to the salary cap crunch and the need to have cheap guys produce in your lineup.
this and high picks sort of demand play time through their agents I think.

I mean think about it .....if you're a top ten pick you probably have a few years to draw on that draft cred to get a bigger contract and you have injury risk that can derail your career.

If you have any shot in the big league you want to take it as soon as possible and get that big extension as soon as possible.

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Old
07-19-2017, 06:45 PM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
Ugh this offseason couldn't go any slower...

Nylander a Superstar, somewhere between Eichel and Draisaitl...

Hamilton a juggernaut while Klefbom is an Offensive Defenceman with defensive liabilities...

Larsson a #4 and a below average defenseman...

Matthews and Marner will get 90+ points next year...

shhh

let their false confidence marinade in their bull **** over the coming months, give them every opportunity to keep drenching it in ****

then as it starts to fall apart in mid season or after a sweep in the playoffs take a big whiff of their broken **** dreams

**** dreams randy

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Old
07-20-2017, 09:12 AM
  #446
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Looks like even if Hirschier isn't the better player between him and Patrick, at least Devils know he's gonna play some games.


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Old
07-20-2017, 11:07 AM
  #447
Paralyzer
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Originally Posted by McTrashBoat View Post
shhh

let their false confidence marinade in their bull **** over the coming months, give them every opportunity to keep drenching it in ****

then as it starts to fall apart in mid season or after a sweep in the playoffs take a big whiff of their broken **** dreams

**** dreams randy
To add to it:

"Matthews has done more than Hall has his entire career in one season".

Yeah, I'm staying away from there. Ridiculous. You try to warn them about lofty expectations and gloating will come to bite you, but I guess they love to be the butt end of jokes.

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Old
07-20-2017, 11:08 AM
  #448
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Looks like even if Hirschier isn't the better player between him and Patrick, at least Devils know he's gonna play some games.

So like...a pimple?

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Old
07-20-2017, 11:10 AM
  #449
Paralyzer
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So like...a pimple?
More like this:



or this:



you can tell we've been down this road before

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Old
07-20-2017, 11:24 AM
  #450
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Looks like even if Hirschier isn't the better player between him and Patrick, at least Devils know he's gonna play some games.

Geez I feel bad for the kid, such a weird injury to sustain. Hopefully he isn't the next Havlat or Salo who just can't play a full season for whatever reason.

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