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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Messier hitting an injured Linden - Game 6, 1994

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Old
07-16-2017, 02:35 PM
  #26
quoipourquoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the edler View Post
Linden had 80 playoff points in 79 games in his first stint in Vancouver and repeatedly came up big in game 7s. That's better than Claude Lemieux. Better than Justin Williams.
Claude Lemieux had a four-year stretch (1994-1997) where he ranked 1st in goals, 2nd in points, 1st in plus-minus, 1st in game-winning goals, and led the playoffs in goals on two different teams. In 1986, he scored in double-overtime of Game 7 to put the Canadiens into the Conference Finals, and again in overtime of Game 3 in those Conference Finals (he finished with a team-leading 10 goals). In 1994, he scored the Game 7 winner on Dominik Hasek, and had the goal/primary assist in the final minute of two games against the Rangers to send it to overtime. In 1997, his 23 points in 17 games landed him just 3 points behind Eric Lindros without making it to the Finals.

But Trevor Linden was really good up to his mid-20s, and his 5 career GWGs surpass any of Lemieux's single-playoff outputs. Barely. But still, small victories.

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07-16-2017, 05:26 PM
  #27
the edler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Claude Lemieux had a four-year stretch (1994-1997) where he ranked 1st in goals, 2nd in points, 1st in plus-minus, 1st in game-winning goals, and led the playoffs in goals on two different teams. In 1986, he scored in double-overtime of Game 7 to put the Canadiens into the Conference Finals, and again in overtime of Game 3 in those Conference Finals (he finished with a team-leading 10 goals). In 1994, he scored the Game 7 winner on Dominik Hasek, and had the goal/primary assist in the final minute of two games against the Rangers to send it to overtime. In 1997, his 23 points in 17 games landed him just 3 points behind Eric Lindros without making it to the Finals.
He definitely had qualities and was a big game player. He wasn't a guy who carried your offense though. When NJD won in 95 he was outscored by three non-HHOF teammates. When the Avs won in 96 he was 9th in scoring on his own team. 9th. On his own team. That's almost Momesso territory.

Both C. Lemieux and J. Williams had qualities that made them important pieces. They were also kinda opportunistic players that took advantage of their surroundings. Different millieus are different.

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07-16-2017, 05:30 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutrinos View Post
Didn't Messier viciously slash someone in the 2nd or 3rd last game of his career, but the NHL refused to suspend him so he wouldn't miss his finale?
Ha ha, wouldn't be surprised if true.

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07-16-2017, 05:56 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutrinos View Post
Didn't Messier viciously slash someone in the 2nd or 3rd last game of his career, but the NHL refused to suspend him so he wouldn't miss his finale?
10 minute match penalty for deliberate injury.

March 21, 2004, Messier's 2nd last career game:

"Messier was ejected at 6:13 of the second period for spearing
defenseman Martin Strbak in front of the Pittsburgh net during a
Rangers power play. Moments earlier, Strbak had cross-checked
Messier near the bottom of the left circle in the Penguins' zone.

Messier refused comment on the play, but Strbak said he was
surprised to get a stick from Messier in the abdomen.

"I respect Mark Messier. He's a great hockey player, a
legend," said Strbak, who stayed down on the ice for some time but
did not leave the game. "I don't know what happened. I just gave
him a little push from behind. I can't understand why he reacted
like he did.

Messier, also given an automatic game misconduct, cannot return
to the New York lineup until a hearing is held on the penalty,
according to league policy. The Rangers host the Penguins on
Tuesday."

http://www.espn.com/nhl/recap?gameId=240321016


Last edited by skeena1: 07-16-2017 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Punctuation
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Old
07-16-2017, 06:32 PM
  #30
needmorefighting
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Wasn't Messier still considering coming back for 05-06? iirc he didn't make an official final decision at the end of 03-04. Pretty sure he plays the 04-05 season if there is no lockout.

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07-16-2017, 07:59 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needmorefighting View Post
Wasn't Messier still considering coming back for 05-06? iirc he didn't make an official final decision at the end of 03-04. Pretty sure he plays the 04-05 season if there is no lockout.
That's correct. In fact, he retired (officially) in mid-September 2005, when guys like Crosby and Ovechkin were in NHL training camps.

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07-16-2017, 08:06 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
That's correct. In fact, he retired (officially) in mid-September 2005, when guys like Crosby and Ovechkin were in NHL training camps.
I believe he was actually even approached by the Oilers in 2005. Not sure if any formal contract negotiations ever took place but it would've been interesting to see him on that 05-06 Cup run squad.

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07-16-2017, 09:20 PM
  #33
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Imagine if Messier joined the Oilers and won the cup one more time.

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07-16-2017, 09:31 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needmorefighting View Post
I believe he was actually even approached by the Oilers in 2005. Not sure if any formal contract negotiations ever took place but it would've been interesting to see him on that 05-06 Cup run squad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CokenoPepsi View Post
Imagine if Messier joined the Oilers and won the cup one more time.
At his number-retirement ceremony in Edmonton, he said he did think seriously about joining Edmonton in 2005. But obviously, he decided to retire instead.

Would have been tough for a 44/45-year-old to play after a season off. He would have had to take a back-seat to the team leaders, and would have had very limited ice-time. But, who knows, a well-placed elbow here or there, and maybe the Oilers could have taken down Carolina...?

You know, Mess actually was pretty good in his last two NHL seasons. I think by 2002, he finally accepted the fact that he couldn't lead the Rangers on the ice anymore, and he seemed to happily accept a lesser role. Despite getting third-line minutes at center in 2002-03, he still finished fourth in goals and points on the Rangers. His very last year, 2003-04, he got yet less ice-time and still came in second on the team in goals and points. Not many 43-year-olds are second in team scoring.

He could have still played, I reckon, in 2005-06, but it would have been in a very small role.

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07-17-2017, 12:26 AM
  #35
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Anyone who watched Messier's career from start to finish would not and could not be surprised by that type of behavior.

He possessed a rare combination of power, speed and skill along with a quick temper and unmatched fury.

Many times during his career he could simply take your breathe away. The demolition in game 7 against Calgary in '84, the goal that turned the tide against the Islander dynasty in game 4 of the '84 cup final.

Then there was game 4 against the Blackhawks in '90 and the immortal game 6 against the Devils in '94.

But boy was he dirty. Elbowing numerous Islanders in '83, the annihilation of Mike Eaves in '84, sucker punching Jaime Macoun in '84-85, I could go on and on.

It certainly seemed he took liberties with smaller players, no doubt about that!

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Old
07-17-2017, 12:43 AM
  #36
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Its funny that this thread should pop up because just the other day I was thinking about how I've never actually seen that play. A lot of my friends are Canuck fans and one of the main narratives they have regarding Messier is that vicious attack on Linden... expect they haven't even seen it! So if there is a replay of it kicking around (or if there is anyone on this site who attended game 6 of that series) perhaps it could be put in this thread.

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Old
07-17-2017, 01:49 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
A guy that never won anything has a legacy of a playoff warrior?

No, no he doesn't. Not even close.
sheesh, tough crowd. i mean he did score two goals in the final game of the memorial cup, as a sixteen year old. and then the next year even though he was a minor part of the canadian wjc team as by far its youngest player, he scored his only goal of the tournament in the decisive 3-2 canada win over the ussr to take the gold medal. and six years later of course he scored two goals in game 7 of the stanley cup finals.

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07-17-2017, 10:38 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
sheesh, tough crowd. i mean he did score two goals in the final game of the memorial cup, as a sixteen year old. and then the next year even though he was a minor part of the canadian wjc team as by far its youngest player, he scored his only goal of the tournament in the decisive 3-2 canada win over the ussr to take the gold medal. and six years later of course he scored two goals in game 7 of the stanley cup finals.
He even had some magic left in 2007.

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07-17-2017, 11:31 AM
  #39
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Messier in my mind:






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07-17-2017, 12:09 PM
  #40
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Back to the OP's point — is there no actual footage of Messier hitting Linden while he's down anywhere?

This incident is widely known among Canuck fans and I've definitely been mad about it for most of my adult life, but it does seem like we have no idea of what the hit actually looked like... (I've always had a mental image of the hit that I could've sworn was a real memory but I guess it's possible I just made it up.)

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07-17-2017, 12:23 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
Back to the OP's point is there no actual footage of Messier hitting Linden while he's down anywhere?

This incident is widely known among Canuck fans and I've definitely been mad about it for most of my adult life, but it does seem like we have no idea of what the hit actually looked like... (I've always had a mental image of the hit that I could've sworn was a real memory but I guess it's possible I just made it up.)
Even the Canucks themselves had different accounts of it when asked in 2014, ranging between Linden's rolled over top of me comment to a vicious throat crosscheck.

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07-17-2017, 12:58 PM
  #42
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You guys are being hard on Messier. He likely felt very guilty about his actions and wanted to make it up to Linden and the Canucks, when he joined them years later.

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07-17-2017, 03:25 PM
  #43
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The hit in itself probably wasn't that bad, it's the fact he was injured, down on his knees and our heart and soul captain that makes our skins crawl...

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07-17-2017, 08:46 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
Back to the OP's point is there no actual footage of Messier hitting Linden while he's down anywhere?

This incident is widely known among Canuck fans and I've definitely been mad about it for most of my adult life, but it does seem like we have no idea of what the hit actually looked like... (I've always had a mental image of the hit that I could've sworn was a real memory but I guess it's possible I just made it up.)
From what I can gleam from the game tape it happened somewhere in front of the benches. People were pretty enraged about it, but only somebody in the Pacific Coliseum that day would be able to tell you what happened. I don't think any tape of it exists.

What you're remembering is likely the cheap shot on Linden before the Messier hit. Linden didn't have the puck and either Graves or Anderson hit him with a forearm to the head.

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07-17-2017, 08:53 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Even the Canucks themselves had different accounts of it when asked in 2014, ranging between Linden's rolled over top of me comment to a vicious throat crosscheck.


The confusion might be because there were two hits on Linden. The first was the one that left Linden on his hands and knees on the ice struggling to get to the bench. The second hit delivered by Messier was when Linden was in a vulnerable position already injured. It was the kind of dirty cheap unnecessary hit that Messier had a reputation for.

While the Messier hit was not shown, Jim Robson who was well respected and not considered a homer by any means describes what happened very well.

Mark Messier was a bully who got away with a lot of stuff that other players would have been nailed for. That stick swinging incident at Larry Robinson has to be one of the most gutless things I have ever seen. This is Larry freaking Robinson a widely respected, clean player, and Messier is threatening him with his stick.

Too bad Robinson did not take that stick off him and ram it down his throat, he certainly would have deserved it.

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07-17-2017, 11:02 PM
  #46
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IMO, if Messier was on the 2005-06 Oilers they likely don't even go on the run they went on. The 2006 Oilers leadership by committee was what got them as far as they did. Messier would have likely ruined that chemistry as he did on all of those playoffs-missing teams in Vancouver and New York from 1997-2004. Man, he was such dead weight from the Vancouver era onwards.

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07-17-2017, 11:18 PM
  #47
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When Messier left Vancouver in 2000. Canucks made the playoffs first time in 4 years. When Messier wasnt around anymore after 1994. Rangers made the playoffs the first time in 7 seasons.

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07-17-2017, 11:37 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Canucks1096 View Post
When Messier left Vancouver in 2000. Canucks made the playoffs first time in 4 years. When Messier wasnt around anymore after 1994. Rangers made the playoffs the first time in 7 seasons.
Before Messier joined Vancouver, they were already a non-playoff team.

While he was there, they got progressively better. He was team MVP in 1999-2000.

By "1994", you meant 2004, which would be true. However, the Rangers also missed the playoffs immediately when Messier left the team in 1997-98, and for each season he was in Vancouver.

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07-18-2017, 09:07 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMR View Post
You guys are being hard on Messier. He likely felt very guilty about his actions and wanted to make it up to Linden and the Canucks, when he joined them years later.
What is this assumption based on?

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07-18-2017, 10:40 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
What is this assumption based on?
I was trying to make a joke about Messier's tenure in Vancouver. Of course Messier didn't feel guilty. He was the kind that would do anything to win.

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