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John Tavares. Is it possible?

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Old
07-17-2017, 01:35 PM
  #326
Rockomax
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
The biggest question is how long do we wait for Tavares and do we keep our cap space until Tavares decides what he wants to do? It's definitely a dream but it's the exact missing piece we need and I can see the Habs being a potential option among other teams as well.
Hockey management is a closed group, I'm sure that Habs management can get a feel of where this is going. If they evaluate that there is a significant chance that they can get him, you wait all the way. It also depends what are your other options for your cap space. No reason to spend to the cap if it doesn't really make the Habs a better team. It can also be used to get additional assets if someone has a player on his last contractual year that they want to get rid of. What we end up doing with the cap space will be contextual. At this point, no need to use it.

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07-17-2017, 01:41 PM
  #327
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Why? What is he deluding himself on, an $80M contract offer of $10M * 8 years from the Isles? It's already been mentioned by the Isles. That's a lot of incentive to stay.

There are delusions going on, but they are not from Tavares. For him to come here, the Habs will have to match that contract at least or better it. That would be $12M per year * 7 years = $84M. He wouldn't uproot and come here for less.
There are most likely lots or teams willing to pay Tavares ten million dollars a year. He'll also get the chance to hit the playoffs once per decade or possibly even more.

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07-17-2017, 02:20 PM
  #328
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Even if the Habs were able to sign him in Free Agency, I don't think that they have the player development under them to be able to make it work with two $10mil+ guys on the roster (i.e. they don't have enough solid low salary guys to fill out a team after paying $$$$ for two guys i.e. Chicago).

Unless the cap goes up significantly, its a pipe dream.

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07-17-2017, 02:26 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by PernellKarl76 View Post
Even if the Habs were able to sign him in Free Agency, I don't think that they have the player development under them to be able to make it work with two $10mil+ guys on the roster (i.e. they don't have enough solid low salary guys to fill out a team after paying $$$$ for two guys i.e. Chicago).

Unless the cap goes up significantly, its a pipe dream.
Lets play this game. Who are the Habs best prospects at this point. Please list your top 10?

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07-17-2017, 03:09 PM
  #330
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Even if the Habs were able to sign him in Free Agency, I don't think that they have the player development under them to be able to make it work with two $10mil+ guys on the roster (i.e. they don't have enough solid low salary guys to fill out a team after paying $$$$ for two guys i.e. Chicago).

Unless the cap goes up significantly, its a pipe dream.
what, we're one of the best at getting players at a bargain contract.

If we exclude ELCs, we have Byron, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Danault, Galchenyuk, Hemsky, Benn, and Schlemko who are in a bargain contract. You could include Drouin next year if he continues progressing.

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07-17-2017, 07:37 PM
  #331
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Tavares is the best center option available on the open market, Come next July1st or sooner by trade!!!...

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07-18-2017, 07:03 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by PernellKarl76 View Post
Even if the Habs were able to sign him in Free Agency, I don't think that they have the player development under them to be able to make it work with two $10mil+ guys on the roster (i.e. they don't have enough solid low salary guys to fill out a team after paying $$$$ for two guys i.e. Chicago).

Unless the cap goes up significantly, its a pipe dream.
At this point you're probably right. We'd have to build the club another way. Via trades or free agency. The way to go would be to use picks as currency. They aren't going to pan out under our development anyway so trade them elsewhere for vets.

As for JT it's a pipe dream anyway. But it's fun to dream. Damn he'd look good in a Hab uniform.

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07-18-2017, 07:14 AM
  #333
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At this point you're probably right. We'd have to build the club another way. Via trades or free agency. The way to go would be to use picks as currency. They aren't going to pan out under our development anyway so trade them elsewhere for vets.

As for JT it's a pipe dream anyway. But it's fun to dream. Damn he'd look good in a Hab uniform.
A dream that many other teams have as well right now. Dam right, he would fit well with the Habs!


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07-18-2017, 12:39 PM
  #334
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At this point you're probably right. We'd have to build the club another way. Via trades or free agency. The way to go would be to use picks as currency. They aren't going to pan out under our development anyway so trade them elsewhere for vets.

As for JT it's a pipe dream anyway. But it's fun to dream. Damn he'd look good in a Hab uniform.
This i'm in agreement with.

What contributes more right away? A late first-round pick (A McCarron or Juulsen type player) or an established roster player that could be traded for who can step in right away.

I truly believe first-round picks (outside of the lottery anyway) are grossly overvalued in the NHL.

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07-18-2017, 01:04 PM
  #335
Lafleurs Guy
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This i'm in agreement with.

What contributes more right away? A late first-round pick (A McCarron or Juulsen type player) or an established roster player that could be traded for who can step in right away.

I truly believe first-round picks (outside of the lottery anyway) are grossly overvalued in the NHL.
I've been arguing that we should deal picks for the past three years now. We had a good young core built. The right thing to do was to augment it then and there.

Instead it was "build through the draft" for a team that had already been built. And we have nothing to show for it prospect wise as well. It's pretty freaking sad.

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07-18-2017, 01:11 PM
  #336
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I've been arguing that we should deal picks for the past three years now. We had a good young core built. The right thing to do was to augment it then and there.

Instead it was "build through the draft" for a team that had already been built. And we have nothing to show for it prospect wise as well. It's pretty freaking sad.
What's pretty freaking sad is your outlook towards the Habs and how pretty much everything is negative because we are not winning cups like the Pens are.

- The prospect pool is not empty. You want Crosby and McDavid's types (or Sergachev) and it's just not realistic to demand or expect this with where we have drafted. No disrespect, but your evaluation of our prospect pool is just not right. IMO, you are taking massive leaps to try and paint this picture that we are a doomed team.

- Lets trade our picks away eh. We are sure to force the deal we want and take the player we want eh?

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07-18-2017, 01:28 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
What's pretty freaking sad is your outlook towards the Habs and how pretty much everything is negative because we are not winning cups like the Pens are.

- The prospect pool is not empty. You want Crosby and McDavid's types (or Sergachev) and it's just not realistic to demand or expect this with where we have drafted. No disrespect, but your evaluation of our prospect pool is just not right. IMO, you are taking massive leaps to try and paint this picture that we are a doomed team.

- Lets trade our picks away eh. We are sure to force the deal we want and take the player we want eh?
No one said that the prospect pool was empty. It's not very good though, however big the alleged leaps are supposed to be. We don't have a single high end prospect and it hurts bad. And, yes, in my opinion, it is realistic to demand or expect one such prospect at our draft positions once in a blue moon. The prospect pool has some decent depth, not much more.

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07-18-2017, 02:13 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I've been arguing that we should deal picks for the past three years now. We had a good young core built. The right thing to do was to augment it then and there.

Instead it was "build through the draft" for a team that had already been built. And we have nothing to show for it prospect wise as well. It's pretty freaking sad.
Nothing to show for it prospect wise?
Juulsen seems like a decent enough piece to have - too early to tell but could see him on the team as early as this year - even if he's only a mid/low pairing guy with upside, the fact that he's cost-controlled is half his value over a similar player.

Drafting Sergachev = Drouin. I don't think that trade happens otherwise - either for the 9th overall or if we took a different player there.

Poehling will be really interesting to watch - based on his play against his own age group there ia again potential to have a player you would never have gotten in a trade for 25 overall pick.

Unless youre bitter that we missed out on the opportunity to get Ryan Reaves who was apparently available for a late first this year.

Trading picks is like any other trade - you don't do it unless you can get something of real value... if you decide you're going to do it either way, you give away value in a forced play - much like how Beaulieu was handled so poorly

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07-18-2017, 02:21 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Habaholicgolfer View Post
What's pretty freaking sad is your outlook towards the Habs and how pretty much everything is negative because we are not winning cups like the Pens are.

- The prospect pool is not empty. You want Crosby and McDavid's types (or Sergachev) and it's just not realistic to demand or expect this with where we have drafted. No disrespect, but your evaluation of our prospect pool is just not right. IMO, you are taking massive leaps to try and paint this picture that we are a doomed team.

- Lets trade our picks away eh. We are sure to force the deal we want and take the player we want eh?
No. No one here is looking for a Crosby or McDavid in our farm. And his assessment is reasonable and realistic. To sum it up simply, we don't have a tonne of potential top 6 forwards and top pairing defensemen in our system. In competent draft pick rankings we'd be in the bottom 7-8 teams in the NHL. This isn't being negative. This is just what it is.

And as for trading away picks, all I think he means is the Habs are in a "win now" mode. I don't think you can argue that. We have the best goalie in the world in his prime. So it may be beneficial for the team to sacrifice some of our farm and some of our next couple year's draft picks to improve this years team to the point where it's a contender. Clearly building from within isn't working. It's evident in the strength of our current team and the current strength of our farm. Sometimes you need to sacrifice on for the strength of the other.

"Get busy living, or get busy dying." - Andy Dufresne. In other words, sell the farm and go for it already. Or blow it up and rebuild. I'd prefer the former.

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07-18-2017, 02:56 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I've been arguing that we should deal picks for the past three years now. We had a good young core built. The right thing to do was to augment it then and there.

Instead it was "build through the draft" for a team that had already been built. And we have nothing to show for it prospect wise as well. It's pretty freaking sad.
It depends what these picks are traded for. Not a fan of throwing picks at rentals, but it's a case by case thing for me.

The Vanek trade was great. The Petry trade was great, even better that we signed him long term afterwards.

The Shaw trade was a fiasco from the beginning.

Part of the reason why we don't have much coming up in the pipeline is because we've have been wasting a lot of picks.

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07-18-2017, 03:50 PM
  #341
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Missing the boat on Johansson was pretty damn inexcusable.

But hey we got Shawzy instead!

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07-18-2017, 03:54 PM
  #342
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Missing the boat on Johansson was pretty damn inexcusable.

But hey we got Shawzy instead!
Who is our Jones??

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07-18-2017, 03:57 PM
  #343
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Who is our Jones??
Marcus Johansson.

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07-18-2017, 05:47 PM
  #344
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Imo Tavares has to be delusional to want to stay in New York.
I agree. Also, Tavares should know that if he were to play for a team like MTL, he automatically makes them a top Stanley Cup contender (and I bet your ass they win the Cup at least once or twice), he'll get a boatload of awards, will get a hell of a lot more respect, etc etc.

I don't understand his infatuation for a team whose future is completely uncertain (terrible arena, not much of anything going on, bottom-3 in attendance). I certainly don't understand why he keeps bringing up that NYI have been loyal to him. ANY AND EVERY TEAM WOULD HAVE PICKED HIM 1ST OVERALL! Also, the fact they gave him a ****** 6 year x 5.5m contract, when he would have gotten more elsewhere... I cannot understand his love and commitment to a team that relies entirely on him and that's not very respected, isn't going anywhere as far as Stanley Cups are concerned (I mean, after Tavares, what the **** do they really have? Leddy? ), etc.

If he comes to Montreal, he'll get the full respect he deserves. A true #1 center, with excellent wingers, etc. It would make MTL a true Stanley Cup contender for the next few years. But nahhhh, instead waste your ****ing career away on a team that might get relocated to Timbuktu and go chase for a Cup when you're 38 years old - because "loyalty". At least someone like Stamkos signed with a team that has a chance to win it all (they made the Finals, and they have a solid team all around) - the Islanders have jack **** to "entice" Tavares to stay. Habs is the only team IMO that makes COMPLETE sense for Tavares. Add Tavares here, and we compete against the very best and likely win.

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07-18-2017, 05:55 PM
  #345
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I agree. Also, Tavares should know that if he were to play for a team like MTL, he automatically makes them a top Stanley Cup contender (and I bet your ass they win the Cup at least once or twice), he'll get a boatload of awards, will get a hell of a lot more respect, etc etc.

I don't understand his infatuation for a team whose future is completely uncertain (terrible arena, not much of anything going on, bottom-3 in attendance). I certainly don't understand why he keeps bringing up that NYI have been loyal to him. ANY AND EVERY TEAM WOULD HAVE PICKED HIM 1ST OVERALL! Also, the fact they gave him a ****** 6 year x 5.5m contract, when he would have gotten more elsewhere... I cannot understand his love and commitment to a team that relies entirely on him and that's not very respected, isn't going anywhere as far as Stanley Cups are concerned, etc.

If he comes to Montreal, he'll get the full respect he deserves. A true #1 center, with excellent wingers, etc. It would make MTL a true Stanley Cup contender for the next few years. But nahhhh, instead waste your ****ing career away on a team that might get relocated to Timbuktu and go chase for a Cup when you're 38 years old - because "loyalty".
The Habs are unquestionably a better destination for Tavares than the Islanders.

The thing is, so are many other teams in the league. I'm not familiar with all of their cap structures, rosters, progressions, and prospect pools. I just know that the Islanders are a below-average option due to the fact that he might never see a playoff there, let alone compete for a cup.

With little knowledge of cap on my part, I'd say that the following teams might be good guys for Tavares.

Montreal
Ottawa
Boston
Tampa Bay
Florida?
Columbus
Rangers?
St Louis
Chicago
Los Angeles
Nashville
Calgary?

I'm not an expert on the rest of the league so please don't nitpick. My general point is that the Habs being a better fit than the Islanders does not provide great odds by itself.

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07-18-2017, 05:58 PM
  #346
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Tavares should know that if he were to play for a team like MTL, he automatically makes them a top Stanley Cup contender (and I bet your ass they win the Cup at least once or twice), he'll get a boatload of awards, will get a hell of a lot more respect, etc etc.
you could replace MTL in this sentence with about 10-15 other teams, why would he pick montreal?...there isnt anything more appealing about montreal then any of the other teams where he could win,

he is a toronto boy, you think toronto doesnt win at least one cup with JT?....get real

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07-18-2017, 06:02 PM
  #347
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you could replace MTL in this sentence with about 10-15 other teams, why would he pick montreal?...there isnt anything more appealing about montreal then any of the other teams where he could win,

he is a toronto boy, you think toronto doesnt win at least one cup with JT?....get real
Toronto already has excellent offense, so adding Tavares has less marginal value for them than for other teams.

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07-18-2017, 06:03 PM
  #348
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you could replace MTL in this sentence with about 10-15 other teams, why would he pick montreal?...there isnt anything more appealing about montreal then any of the other teams where he could win,

he is a toronto boy, you think toronto doesnt win at least one cup with JT?....get real
Toronto doesn't need him. They already have Matthews, Kadri, and possibly Nylander that play Center. They won't sign him for the $ he'll want (because they'll be ****ed when their young ones need an extension).

Also, most teams don't have the "team" that MTL has. Add a true #1 center like Tavares in MTL, and they have a complete team. Excellent wingers, great defense, best goalie in the league. It doesn't get better than this. That, and, cap says hello. MTL has the cap to sign/extend him and dump a player or two - also Plekanec's 6m contract is coming to an end.

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07-18-2017, 06:10 PM
  #349
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Toronto doesn't need him. They already have Matthews, Kadri, and possibly Nylander that play Center. They won't sign him for the $ he'll want (because they'll be ****ed when their young ones need an extension).

Also, most teams don't have the "team" that MTL has. Add a true #1 center like Tavares in MTL, and they have a complete team. Excellent wingers, great defense, best goalie in the league. It doesn't get better than this. That, and, cap says hello. MTL has the cap to sign/extend him and dump a player or two - also Plekanec's 6m contract is coming to an end.
Price's salary is going up by 4 million a year, so Plekanec's contract expiring only liberates 2 million a year to be used on a centre.

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07-18-2017, 06:15 PM
  #350
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Price's salary is going up by 4 million a year, so Plekanec's contract expiring only liberates 2 million a year to be used on a centre.
The Habs have, give or take, 8.5M in cap space right now if they had a 23 man roster.

Add in 1M from Hemsky, 1.2M from Mitchell, 675k from Martinsen and 6M from Plekanec, the Habs have 17.3M in available salary with 15 players signed for next year.

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