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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Olympics 2018 rosters (without NHL players)

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07-17-2017, 03:15 PM
  #226
WolvesAndWings
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Serious question, are Russian hockey fans going to celebrate their inevitable gold and "triumph" over the other big hockey nations, namely Canada, with no NHL players there?

Also, is the IIHF going to count this towards the world ranking? It'll be really dumb if they do. But then again the world ranking is already full of problems that makes it a joke, so I'm not sure much changes in that respect.

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07-17-2017, 05:03 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolvesAndWings View Post
Serious question, are Russian hockey fans going to celebrate their inevitable gold and "triumph" over the other big hockey nations, namely Canada, with no NHL players there?

Also, is the IIHF going to count this towards the world ranking? It'll be really dumb if they do. But then again the world ranking is already full of problems that makes it a joke, so I'm not sure much changes in that respect.
Yes at least ordinary ones

Yes. Not the iihf's problem the NHL isn't showing up.

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07-17-2017, 06:17 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by WolvesAndWings View Post
Serious question, are Russian hockey fans going to celebrate their inevitable gold and "triumph" over the other big hockey nations, namely Canada, with no NHL players there?

Also, is the IIHF going to count this towards the world ranking? It'll be really dumb if they do. But then again the world ranking is already full of problems that makes it a joke, so I'm not sure much changes in that respect.
They can answer, but sentiment certainly seems to indicate that it will indeed be celebrated as a very big deal should it come to pass. Regarding the IIHF rankings, there are few things more irrelevant. In 2014 anyway I believe that winning the Olympic tournament was as valuable as winning the WHC under their system, as nonsensical as that is.

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07-17-2017, 10:21 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by WolvesAndWings View Post
Serious question, are Russian hockey fans going to celebrate their inevitable gold and "triumph" over the other big hockey nations, namely Canada, with no NHL players there?

Also, is the IIHF going to count this towards the world ranking? It'll be really dumb if they do. But then again the world ranking is already full of problems that makes it a joke, so I'm not sure much changes in that respect.
No, because they will lose to either Finland or Sweden in the final.

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07-17-2017, 10:53 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by WolvesAndWings View Post
Also, is the IIHF going to count this towards the world ranking? It'll be really dumb if they do. But then again the world ranking is already full of problems that makes it a joke, so I'm not sure much changes in that respect.
The joke is that the best league in the world doesn't want their players to compete in the best tournament in the world.

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07-17-2017, 11:47 PM
  #231
WolvesAndWings
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
The joke is that the best league in the world doesn't want their players to compete in the best tournament in the world.

Dont know why those things have to be mutually exclusive. But you're not wrong about that.

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07-18-2017, 12:54 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by WolvesAndWings View Post
Serious question, are Russian hockey fans going to celebrate their inevitable gold and "triumph" over the other big hockey nations, namely Canada, with no NHL players there?

Also, is the IIHF going to count this towards the world ranking? It'll be really dumb if they do. But then again the world ranking is already full of problems that makes it a joke, so I'm not sure much changes in that respect.
What's the point of this comment? You just sound ******** the NHL said no and you're taking it out on everyone else.

Why shouldn't Russians celebrate a major tournament win? The Olympics are the Olympics.

And why shouldn't it count towards the world rankings? It's the biggest hockey tournament in the world - even without NHL players.

And all that said, personally my money is on Finland. People who think Russia is going to run away with it clearly know nothing about the sport of hockey outside the NHL. I do think they'll get Silver though.

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07-18-2017, 08:17 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Why shouldn't Russians celebrate a major tournament win? The Olympics are the Olympics.
Probably because it wouldn't be a major tournament win. Without NHL participation the Olympic tournament is not even as impressive as a World Championship win, which isn't all that impressive itself.

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07-18-2017, 09:17 AM
  #234
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Probably because it wouldn't be a major tournament win. Without NHL participation the Olympic tournament is not even as impressive as a World Championship win, which isn't all that impressive itself.
You're showing a little parochialism there. Maybe it won't be a big deal in Canada and among the hard-core NHL fans in the States, but the rest of the World will treat it as a big deal. Hockey has changed a lot since the 1980's when the Soviets were the overwhelming favorites entering the Olympic tournament. Hockey has grown all over Europe, is making a strong entrance into China, and Olympic matches will draw far more Worldwide interest and attention than, say, the Vancouver Canucks vs. the Colorado Avalanche. Not even close!

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07-18-2017, 10:38 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
You're showing a little parochialism there. Maybe it won't be a big deal in Canada and among the hard-core NHL fans in the States, but the rest of the World will treat it as a big deal. Hockey has changed a lot since the 1980's when the Soviets were the overwhelming favorites entering the Olympic tournament. Hockey has grown all over Europe, is making a strong entrance into China, and Olympic matches will draw far more Worldwide interest and attention than, say, the Vancouver Canucks vs. the Colorado Avalanche. Not even close!
North Americans watch/have interest in dozens of sports every (Summer/Winter) Olympics, and for almost all of them outside of the Olympics no one cares about them or pays any attention to them at all! But during the Olympics, great numbers have interest/watch! And almost all watching know they're watching it as "something to do" and not because they actually care (or would actually ever spend any money on the sport, whether to play or watch). I don't think this is true for just North Americans...

This is the "importance" that Olympics fans are heralding, and ultimately it's meaningless - I think all those watchers outside of NA that are being talked about know they don't really care and won't think of it again after the Olympics are over (Olympic interest/viewers doesn't translate into everyday interest)




And I see no evidence of "a strong entrance" in China, and in terms of hockey of course there have been changes/development but Europe doesn't seem that much different to me than it did 40 years ago (essentially the same "hockey powers" and the same "the rest" and the same "no chance" - there are fewer people playing in Canada, and hockey's less and less popular...are there significantly more people playing in Europe/Russia than there were in the past? a greater portion of the population is playing than did in the best?)




IMO the Olympics are less relevant worldwide than they were decades ago (and only getting less relevant/less well thought of as the years pass), and people have so much more to do with their freetime, I see the Olympics growing less and less relevant

Maybe the IOC will save itself, and clean things up enough, and avoid relying on totalitarian regimes to get their Olympics to happen...there is at least some evidence that the IOC may be realizing they're in trouble and trying to fix things

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07-18-2017, 12:15 PM
  #236
JackSlater
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
You're showing a little parochialism there. Maybe it won't be a big deal in Canada and among the hard-core NHL fans in the States, but the rest of the World will treat it as a big deal. Hockey has changed a lot since the 1980's when the Soviets were the overwhelming favorites entering the Olympic tournament. Hockey has grown all over Europe, is making a strong entrance into China, and Olympic matches will draw far more Worldwide interest and attention than, say, the Vancouver Canucks vs. the Colorado Avalanche. Not even close!
You're right that the audience will probably be quite large. I didn't comment on that though. I said that it won't be a major tournament win, and it won't. That's the consequence of the world's best players being absent in what would otherwise be a top notch tournament. It isn't even like some of the pre-1998 tournaments when at least many of the best Europeans would be present.

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07-18-2017, 07:25 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
You're right that the audience will probably be quite large. I didn't comment on that though. I said that it won't be a major tournament win, and it won't. That's the consequence of the world's best players being absent in what would otherwise be a top notch tournament. It isn't even like some of the pre-1998 tournaments when at least many of the best Europeans would be present.
Winning the Olympics will always be a major tournament win. It looks like the days of the "best-on-best" are gone, unless you count the World Cup as one. Who knows if they will ever do that again, given the fact that the World ignored it altogether. The Olympics will introduce a lot of young talents on the scene, and it will be a chance for the KHL to make a Worldwide statement. It might be more entertaining without the overpaid ones!

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07-18-2017, 08:10 PM
  #238
JackSlater
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Winning the Olympics will always be a major tournament win. It looks like the days of the "best-on-best" are gone, unless you count the World Cup as one. Who knows if they will ever do that again, given the fact that the World ignored it altogether. The Olympics will introduce a lot of young talents on the scene, and it will be a chance for the KHL to make a Worldwide statement. It might be more entertaining without the overpaid ones!
The Olympic tournament doesn't have an intrinsic value that makes it a major tournament just because. For instance in the days when Canada sent random amateurs to beat up on the rest of the world, it was a very irrelevant tournament. As for the World Cup, there is already some indication that they won't hold it again in 2020, but that's apparently due to labour strife rather than what you are indicating.

I doubt that the KHL is going to make any noteworthy "worldwide" statements at the Olympics, but you are free to cling to the fantasy if you wish.

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07-18-2017, 08:12 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
The joke is that the best league in the world doesn't want their players to compete in the best tournament in the world.
When I put my business hat on, I'm curious why people think that the NHL should allow its players (and the top assets at that), to basically work for someone else for free... no business in their right mind would do that. And before the inevitable "it's for the growth of hockey"... what specific revenues has the NHL seen rise since their players started playing in the Olympics? I'm not sure there is a business case that anyone can make, to show that it has moved the needle at all. And a business is trying to make money, so makes little sense to do something that can't show it will make you money.

Of course, if I have my fan hat on, I'd love to see more best on best hockey.

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07-19-2017, 03:34 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
The Olympic tournament doesn't have an intrinsic value that makes it a major tournament just because. For instance in the days when Canada sent random amateurs to beat up on the rest of the world, it was a very irrelevant tournament. As for the World Cup, there is already some indication that they won't hold it again in 2020, but that's apparently due to labour strife rather than what you are indicating.

I doubt that the KHL is going to make any noteworthy "worldwide" statements at the Olympics, but you are free to cling to the fantasy if you wish.
Thanks!

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07-20-2017, 07:15 AM
  #241
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https://www.secondcityhockey.com/201...key-tournament

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Yesterday, 02:45 AM
  #242
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This thread has gone way off topic.

Please keep it about the OG rosters, and keep the name calling to a minimum.

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