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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Ken King; Flames Ownership no longer pursuing new arena in Calgary

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Old
09-13-2017, 08:53 AM
  #126
tony d
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They're not leaving Calgary, things will work out soon enough with a new arena. Still no public money should ever go into building an arena whatsoever.

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Old
09-13-2017, 08:54 AM
  #127
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This is a stupid ploy to interfere in the municipal election. Wake up.

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09-13-2017, 08:56 AM
  #128
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post

I hope the Flames are told to shove it. There's a lot more better industries for a City to subsidize.
Actually in this case I think it's the team who told the city to shove it. Nenshi may have somehow pushed them to do it but they still did it.

I like you Cavs' example and think that this is the best and most profitable option for the Flames. They can build the arena themselves and profit accordingly.

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09-13-2017, 09:04 AM
  #129
Kamiccolo
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I don't think I would put any weight in these, but I will say I would be pissed if I was a flames fan. Just to suggest such a thing after how loyal the fans have been is a slap in the face, and I'd expect someone to be fired after this is all resolved.

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09-13-2017, 09:12 AM
  #130
MickeyMelchiondo
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
Bettman is talking about "consequences" like a true shakedown expert.
it's disgusting
I applaud the city of Calgary here, thus far

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Old
09-13-2017, 09:47 AM
  #131
MetM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
He fought tooth and nail for Arizona because they... built an arena.
Like Quebec?

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Old
09-13-2017, 09:52 AM
  #132
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by MetM View Post
Like Quebec?
Quebec didn't build an arena and lost their team.

The story of pro sports relocations is mainly one of arena problems getting resolved. That's just the way it is.

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09-13-2017, 10:08 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Worth noting that of the group only Edwards is thought to still be a billionaire, and narrowly at that with an estimated net worth of $1.3B. He also fled for London's non-dom calling just over a year ago. He and Riddell have had a very rough few years, and it's likely his partners have been similarly hurt.

The G&M is reporting that they're looking for a new investor to join them, surprise surprise. It also contains the latest offer from the city: The team pays 2/3rds up front with the city incrementally paying back 1/3rd of that over a number of years(likely a CRL) and the remaining 1/3rd collected via a ticket surcharge. This prompted King to hold his breath, plug his ears, and stomp his feet yesterday, as Nenshi the day previous unveiled his vision to turn the East Village into the city's Entertainment and Cultural District, with a new arena as the central. Given that Nenshi will sleep his way to reelection, and that new city councilors will likely not flip the outcome on some pie in the sky funding vote, they know they have no other choice but to go to the public. Houston is the escape route here, as some alluded too.

Flames No Longer Interested In Pursuing New Calgary Arena


Last edited by bam09: 09-13-2017 at 10:24 AM.
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Old
09-13-2017, 10:10 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Quebec didn't build an arena and lost their team.

The story of pro sports relocations is mainly one of arena problems getting resolved. That's just the way it is.
Yep, pretty much.

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Old
09-13-2017, 10:11 AM
  #135
Da McBomb
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I see a lot of Bettman bashing here.. and I understand why. But in regards to the Edmonton situation, he actually played a very key role in the negotiations and helping get an arena deal done here in Edmonton.

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Old
09-13-2017, 10:12 AM
  #136
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by bam09 View Post
Worth noting that only Edwards is thought to still be a billionaire, and narrowly at that with an estimated net worth of $1.3B. He also fled for London's non-dom calling just over a year ago.

Agreed that Houston is the play here.
He ran away because the poor dear didn't want to pay the same taxes the rest of us mortals have to pay. I have no sympathy for him. And I have no sympathy for the other owners. They've made their money and should re-invest it in a new arena.

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09-13-2017, 10:15 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by redwings prospect View Post
Guns and roses just came by, winnipeg, check, regina, check, edmonton, check, calgary? lol no g'n'r for you calgary. We need a new arena for more than just the flames, when regina of all freaking places gets music acts that skip here, calgary has a problem.
This statement is totally taken out of context. GnR concerts in Winnipeg, Regina, and Edmonton were played at football stadiums and not hockey arenas. In fact, all their concerts in North America were/will be performed in either football or baseball stadiums except for Montreal which was at the old Expo 67 site.

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09-13-2017, 10:15 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
Bettman is talking about "consequences" like a true shakedown expert.
Exactly, "everything I needed along the waterfront was available and if someone made a nuisance of himself, something bad was liable to happen to that person."

Screw Bettman for interfering in local politics. There should be legal repercussions for that.

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09-13-2017, 10:16 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
No one is going to call ******** on this statement?? Really?
No kidding. Irrelevant I guess

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Old
09-13-2017, 10:17 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by bam09 View Post
Worth noting that only Edwards is thought to still be a billionaire, and narrowly at that with an estimated net worth of $1.3B. He also fled for London's non-dom calling just over a year ago.

Agreed that Houston is the play here.
Really? He was worth $2.6 billion not that long ago. What happened?

As a Flames fan that moved to Houston 8 years ago....this would be a dream come true! I live three blocks from Toyota Center!!

Sorry Calgary.....I know it would be unbearable to see them leave, but if they had to, this is a perfect spot!!

Yes....I'm being very selfish and I'm okay with that.

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Old
09-13-2017, 10:23 AM
  #141
njdevil26
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I saw somewhere that the estimated cost of the arena would be 1.8 billion. Is that serious? A state of the art arena should cost 500m-1b

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09-13-2017, 10:32 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
Winnipeg mid-90s isn't in the least comparable to Calgary in 2017.

Mid 90s the Jets were losing money. This of course was well before both salary cap and revenue sharing. They were losing money year after year. Their owner, Barry Shenkarow, was not some billionaire. He was a lawyer for goodness sakes. He couldn't absorb the losses. The loss of the Jets in 1996 could still have been avoided if the City would have taken action sooner to build an arena, but the need for action was obvious.

Calgary Flames circa 2017 are profitable. Significantly so. In fact it is difficult to imagine how they could ever hope to be more profitable in either Seattle (where they'd be 4th or 5th on the sports pecking order), or in Quebec City (which is substantially smaller than Calgary) than they would in Calgary.

This is a completely hollow and empty threat by the Flames.
This. The owners know they're in an excellent market, and leaving would be insane.

However, this is the same tough talk that we hear over and over from team owners looking for massive government subsidies. Even if the team continues to be profitable in an old arena, the NHL, all sports leagues and the 100+ major pro team owners have a vested interest in the gravy train of tax payer money keep rolling along.

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09-13-2017, 10:39 AM
  #143
C77
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Originally Posted by Da McBomb View Post
I see a lot of Bettman bashing here.. and I understand why. But in regards to the Edmonton situation, he actually played a very key role in the negotiations and helping get an arena deal done here in Edmonton.
That's nice but a little respect for the democratic process in Calgary would be nicer.

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09-13-2017, 10:42 AM
  #144
Roadrage
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
I saw somewhere that the estimated cost of the arena would be 1.8 billion. Is that serious? A state of the art arena should cost 500m-1b
It's was supposed to be for a 20k seat arena, a 30k-50k seat fieldhouse/football stadium, plus the cost to clean up the creosote contamination in the ground at the site.

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09-13-2017, 10:45 AM
  #145
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Yeah, Katz didn't build Rogers with his own money but his threat to leave was always such a joke (since he invested in land before hand). Though he did have some extra factors that helped him ooze out a deal (such as the new Edmonton tower).

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09-13-2017, 10:46 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Nullus Reverentia View Post
Almost no franchise in the NHL is capable of building an arena on their own. The price tag will likel be upward of a billion CAD when it's all said and done, which is almost half the net worth of their owner (one of the wealthiest in the NHL but he has no where near that much liquid) and more ham the net worth of the team. If the Flames built an arena on their own, they would become heavily indebted and would be the laughing stock of professional sports franchises in North America.
You do realize that the T-Mobile in Vegas is completely privately funded?

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09-13-2017, 10:50 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Captain Subban View Post
You do realize that the T-Mobile in Vegas is completely privately funded?
It'll probably be packed 300 nights a year. Calgary would be lucky to get half that.

Either the city pays for the land and infrastructure or they leave. Seems pretty simply to me.

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09-13-2017, 10:51 AM
  #148
bam09
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
He ran away because the poor dear didn't want to pay the same taxes the rest of us mortals have to pay. I have no sympathy for him. And I have no sympathy for the other owners. They've made their money and should re-invest it in a new arena.
No, he did not have the same taxes as the rest of us. He paid much more. You can have no sympathy for him, but remember, when a government raises the top marginal rate, especially as quickly and as steeply as was implemented, they are gambling those affected won't leave. Why on earth would Edwards stay given that he's paid for more doctors than he can visit, more roads than he can drive on, and more teachers than his one son will ever need... only to be told he wasn't doing enough? That's only considering personal income, not any derived from the very successful businesses he's built.

The province is worse off for not having him around, and if he wishes to throw two fingers up at the city and move the team, I'd implore him to do so given that it's about the only thing he can provide to society without being told it's not enough.

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09-13-2017, 10:57 AM
  #149
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Man, what a nightmare. Flames fans, the City of Calgary doesnt deserve this. Talk about anger, angst. And just what that tweet above means, "we wont be pursuing a new arena"... what the Hell does that even mean if not "weve already decided were leaving"? Unbelievable.... As for Bettman's incitements, entreaties to rise up, tell Council to give the Flames what they want & so on, first time Ive seen/heard that from him in so public a fashion. Ive seen, many of us following these issues not just in Calgary but elsewhere, notably Arizona, heard/seen pretty damning criticisms of elected officials from Bettman, Daly & Jacobs but never a "call to arms" like this. Sure theyve been proactive with lobbying efforts in State's & Province's, Federally in both the US & Canada, quietly in supporting individual clubs requests for taxpayer funded goodies, breaks on their leases etc (Florida for example) but never anything like this. Not good.

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Old
09-13-2017, 10:58 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Flaming Satan View Post
****ing Nenshi. You selfish ****ing *******.
Fixed it for you. He got my vote in the previous two elections but no more(I'm an Oilers fan by the way so it's not like I'm a Flames homer just wanting a new arena). He'll defend spending millions on eye sores he calls art and the beautification of the city, but guess what? A new arena would transform whatever area its put in and hockey is culture in Canada.
That said, its all just negotiating tactics from both sides

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