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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

KHL Expansion Part VII

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Old
09-10-2017, 04:21 AM
  #676
Albatros
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A Gdańsk team was rumored when there wasn't one in domestic hockey, but now they're back to the PHL having been reestablished and promoted, so there's no longer any pressing need.

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09-11-2017, 12:26 PM
  #677
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What about Copenhagen/Denmark? Seems like a logical expansion. A developing hockey nation, plenty of good prospects and players just under NHL level, no conflict with big
traditional teams in the domestic league and a nice modern arena. Do the Riga route and create a "national team", and you probably got yourself a fanbase appeal as well.

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09-12-2017, 08:28 AM
  #678
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The Copenhagen area has 5 teams in the Danish league, but they also have the lowest attendances (even the best had only 852 spectators in their season opener last weekend). I think it would be a huge challenge, having Malmö back in the SHL doesn't help either.

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09-12-2017, 09:32 AM
  #679
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The Copenhagen area has 5 teams in the Danish league, but they also have the lowest attendances (even the best had only 852 spectators in their season opener last weekend). I think it would be a huge challenge, having Malmö back in the SHL doesn't help either.
Exactly, maybe they need a "big club"? FCK managed to do it in football.

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09-12-2017, 09:39 AM
  #680
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It as simple as finding someone who is willing to lose money on some hockey project for no personal gain. If there is such person any market might work. As long as there isn't Copenhagen is as good as Beijing or Tokyo or Milan or Paris or London or Vilnius or any other place where people live.

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09-12-2017, 09:40 AM
  #681
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It is nice to talk about Copenhagen, but unrealistic.

The KHL is interesting in financially strong clubs & big television markets. I do not think Denmark has more value for the KHL than Germany or Switzerland or even GB or Sweden if a miracle happens.

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09-12-2017, 12:07 PM
  #682
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It is nice to talk about Copenhagen, but unrealistic.

The KHL is interesting in financially strong clubs & big television markets. I do not think Denmark has more value for the KHL than Germany or Switzerland or even GB or Sweden if a miracle happens.
It's not like the German, Swedish or Swiss fans of other teams would just drop their own team and start following the country's KHL team instead so I don't really get this "big television markets" argument. Meanwhile a KHL team in Denmark could actually attract some nationwide interest due to lack of competition. Population-wise Copenhagen isn't put in a shame either, it's a decently-sized city.

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09-12-2017, 12:37 PM
  #683
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It's not like the German, Swedish or Swiss fans of other teams would just drop their own team and start following the country's KHL team instead so I don't really get this "big television markets" argument. Meanwhile a KHL team in Denmark could actually attract some nationwide interest due to lack of competition. Population-wise Copenhagen isn't put in a shame either, it's a decently-sized city.
Look at Jokerit. Finnish hockey fans still following Liiga, but "the Jokerit TV deal" (including Sweden, Denmark & Norway) is considered as one of the best KHL TV deals. The most important thing is how much are TVs willing to pay. German or Danish?

Denmark has 5-6 million inhabitants, Germany over 80 million. No doubt Germany is bigger market (& you can include Austria) than Denmark. Switzeland is small, but still bigger than Denmark.

You know. I have nothing against the Denmark. Nice country. But it is unrealistic to expect a KHL expansion to Denmark in near future. Especially if there is reported interest from Germany & Switzerland, who are leading expansion destinations (with Sweden, but you know...) for the KHL. The league has said many times, Germany, Switzeland & Sweden prevail over other countries. Now, we know there is a serious interest from two of the three, so easy choice.

Poland, Estonia are at the same position as Denmark, not attractive enough anymore. Sadly, I have to add Czech rep to this list too.

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09-12-2017, 12:56 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
look at jokerit. Finnish hockey fans still following liiga, but "the jokerit tv deal" (including sweden, denmark & norway) is considered as one of the best khl tv deals. The most important thing is how much are tvs willing to pay. German or danish?

Denmark has 5-6 million inhabitants, germany over 80 million. No doubt germany is bigger market (& you can include austria) than denmark. Switzeland is small, but still bigger than denmark.

You know. I have nothing against the denmark. Nice country. But it is unrealistic to expect a khl expansion to denmark in near future. Especially if there is reported interest from germany & switzerland, who are leading expansion destinations (with sweden, but you know...) for the khl. The league has said many times, germany, switzeland & sweden prevail over other countries. Now, we know there is a serious interest from two of the three, so easy choice.

Poland, estonia are at the same position as denmark, not attractive enough anymore. Sadly, i have to add czech rep to this list too.
will. Not. Happen.

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09-12-2017, 01:05 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Look at Jokerit. Finnish hockey fans still following Liiga, but "the Jokerit TV deal" (including Sweden, Denmark & Norway) is considered as one of the best KHL TV deals. The most important thing is how much are TVs willing to pay. German or Danish?

Denmark has 5-6 million inhabitants, Germany over 80 million. No doubt Germany is bigger market (& you can include Austria) than Denmark. Switzeland is small, but still bigger than Denmark.

You know. I have nothing against the Denmark. Nice country. But it is unrealistic to expect a KHL expansion to Denmark in near future. Especially if there is reported interest from Germany & Switzerland, who are leading expansion destinations (with Sweden, but you know...) for the KHL. The league has said many times, Germany, Switzeland & Sweden prevail over other countries. Now, we know there is a serious interest from two of the three, so easy choice.

Poland, Estonia are at the same position as Denmark, not attractive enough anymore. Sadly, I have to add Czech rep to this list too.
Who do we have in the West so far?

Russian, Finland, Slovakia, Latvia, Belarus

East is

Russian, Chinese and Kazakh. So we clearly need some Eastern teams first

Almaty would be cool, I'd like another Kazakh team, the president likes hockey and they have enough money to waste.

Mongolia would be a perfect location but its probably not even on the radar and rightly so!

China could have another team but it would be even more of a gimick than Redstar. Sure Redstar are trying but another Chinese team wouldn't have any Chinese players to sign!

Northern Japan would be interesting. Hockey interest is there but not sure about the infrastructure?

Abit farfetched but you never know whats coming

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09-12-2017, 05:34 PM
  #686
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Who do we have in the West so far?

Russian, Finland, Slovakia, Latvia, Belarus

East is

Russian, Chinese and Kazakh. So we clearly need some Eastern teams first

Almaty would be cool, I'd like another Kazakh team, the president likes hockey and they have enough money to waste.

Mongolia would be a perfect location but its probably not even on the radar and rightly so!

China could have another team but it would be even more of a gimick than Redstar. Sure Redstar are trying but another Chinese team wouldn't have any Chinese players to sign!

Northern Japan would be interesting. Hockey interest is there but not sure about the infrastructure?

Abit farfetched but you never know whats coming
As far as I know, the problem with Kazakhstan is that they don't have enough KHL-level players to have two teams in the league. At least this is what I was told maybe a couple of years ago when I proposed the same idea. Almaty is a perfect location for an eastward expansion but it looks like nothing will come out of it in near future. Moreover, KHL might want to get something totally new in accordance with their marketing venture which is based on scraping "new" deals - so maybe having one Kazakh team is good enough for them.

I honestly have no idea why the prospect of having a Japanese team is not brought up a little more frequently. Sapporo, for example, looks like a perfect candidate. If you can put a hockey team in Beijing, I suppose you can do it even easier in Sapporo. Maybe investment issues - probably nobody is interested in taking this burden which will probably never even turn any kind of profit. When it comes to political climate, Russia and Japan look like foes more than friends so maybe this also has a role... Huh, I just answered my own question.

But hey, if this league is gonna expand eastwards, then it will surely need a Korean or Japanese team at some point before adding a second Chinese one. On this subject, I still believe we might find the answer at home, though: Krasnoyarsk. Just put a freakin' KHL team in this city already. A major Siberian city with no spectacularly successful top tier sports club. I'm sure people would care if they could watch the likes of SKA, Sibir or Avangard in their city. Their football team, Yenisey, have been doing very well this season and will probably promote to Russian Premier League next season. So, things can get done in this city... Why not give them a glorious hockey team that would perfectly fit in eastern conference?

Again, if we are looking "Far East" rather than just "East", then you gotta bring Koreans or Japanese at some point because honestly, there are no alternatives. I really wish we had a North Korean team in KHL - just imagine the scenes. Huh.

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09-12-2017, 09:58 PM
  #687
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Krasnoyarsk. Just put a freakin' KHL team in this city already. A major Siberian city with no spectacularly successful top tier sports club. I'm sure people would care if they could watch the likes of SKA, Sibir or Avangard in their city. Their football team, Yenisey, have been doing very well this season and will probably promote to Russian Premier League next season. So, things can get done in this city... Why not give them a glorious hockey team that would perfectly fit in eastern conference?
Actually if you talk about hockey with someone from Krasnoyarsk the odds are that they will think about bandy, not ice hockey. This department of Yenisey is very successful and is currently transforming its stadium into an indoor arena which should give it an extra boost in terms of public interest.



Not saying that KHL ice hockey couldn't make it in Krasnoyarsk, but it might be a more complicated environment than it perhaps first appears.

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09-13-2017, 12:46 AM
  #688
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The new hockey arena they are building for Universiade 2019 will hold 7,000. https://krsk2019.com/en/sport_objects/36

I think the thing that stands in Krasnoyarsk's way is theres too many teams in the Eastern conference and they don't want to add more Russian teams there because they need to keep space open for another Asian team.

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09-13-2017, 02:55 AM
  #689
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Look at Jokerit. Finnish hockey fans still following Liiga, but "the Jokerit TV deal" (including Sweden, Denmark & Norway) is considered as one of the best KHL TV deals. The most important thing is how much are TVs willing to pay. German or Danish?

Denmark has 5-6 million inhabitants, Germany over 80 million. No doubt Germany is bigger market (& you can include Austria) than Denmark. Switzeland is small, but still bigger than Denmark.

You know. I have nothing against the Denmark. Nice country. But it is unrealistic to expect a KHL expansion to Denmark in near future. Especially if there is reported interest from Germany & Switzerland, who are leading expansion destinations (with Sweden, but you know...) for the KHL. The league has said many times, Germany, Switzeland & Sweden prevail over other countries. Now, we know there is a serious interest from two of the three, so easy choice.

Poland, Estonia are at the same position as Denmark, not attractive enough anymore. Sadly, I have to add Czech rep to this list too.
There is an option, that team in Dennmark could be like 50 - 50. I mean it will have Dannish and also German players. Then you have two markets covered.
You cant find many good German players with KHL level. It will then end like Slovan. Many ECHL and AHL boys with Czech old guys and here and there some Slovak player.

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09-13-2017, 03:11 AM
  #690
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Copenhagen is a lousy location for a team trying to attract German fans, placing the team in Hamburg could have slightly more potential. But realistically it'd then be just a German team that could perhaps sign a few big name Danish players.

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09-13-2017, 09:55 AM
  #691
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There is an option, that team in Dennmark could be like 50 - 50. I mean it will have Dannish and also German players. Then you have two markets covered.
You cant find many good German players with KHL level. It will then end like Slovan. Many ECHL and AHL boys with Czech old guys and here and there some Slovak player.
Yes, why not? Denmark could work.

The question is - is the KHL interested? I do not think. There is more business connections between Germany and Russia than Denmark and Russia. At the end of a day you need someone who fill fund a team. It is questionable if the KHL is interested in brand new teams in Europe (Asia is another story). And I can go on ...

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09-13-2017, 10:08 AM
  #692
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Yes, why not? Denmark could work.

The question is - is the KHL interested? I do not think. There is more business connections between Germany and Russia than Denmark and Russia. At the end of a day you need someone who fill fund a team. It is questionable if the KHL is interested in brand new teams in Europe (Asia is another story). And I can go on ...
Exactly. Everything is possible if someone is willing to lose a lot of money on it (as we've seen with Lev, Jokerit, Kunlun). And everything will fail when that one doesn't want to spend any more money (as we've seen with Lev and the 2008 CHL).

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09-13-2017, 10:15 AM
  #693
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Exactly. Everything is possible if someone is willing to lose a lot of money on it (as we've seen with Lev, Jokerit, Kunlun). And everything will fail when that one doesn't want to spend any more money (as we've seen with Lev and the 2008 CHL).
Money is not a problem here.

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09-13-2017, 10:31 AM
  #694
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Yes, why not? Denmark could work.

The question is - is the KHL interested? I do not think. There is more business connections between Germany and Russia than Denmark and Russia. At the end of a day you need someone who fill fund a team. It is questionable if the KHL is interested in brand new teams in Europe (Asia is another story). And I can go on ...
WILL NOT HAPPEN, VORKY forget it, why the hell would Germans want to support a team in the KHL playing against some random,poor siberian city team in a they cant even pronounce when they could be playing in their own league?

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09-13-2017, 01:25 PM
  #695
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WILL NOT HAPPEN, VORKY forget it, why the hell would Germans want to support a team in the KHL playing against some random,poor siberian city team in a they cant even pronounce when they could be playing in their own league?
Well look at Wingas GmbH. Thanks to them Riga is still going! As well as Slovan isnt it? And some other teams in Germany. Obviouslys its Gazprom in disguse. If the Russians put the money behind the scenes of a 'German' company then surely the KHL can exists in Germany?

Germans seem to watch any sport so I think it'd be pretty good to see a team in the league. HOWEVER. I'd prefer the real European teams as apposed to these ideas like 'Crowns' etc.

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09-13-2017, 02:57 PM
  #696
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why the hell would Germans want to support a team in the KHL playing against some random,poor siberian city team in a they cant even pronounce when they could be playing in their own league?
Because KHL sponsored by oil and gas money might be the only top-tier hockey show in town available. Cities like Hamburg and Hanover don't currently have teams in DEL or DEL2. Coincidentally Hanover is also the hometown of the Gazprom and Rosneft manager Gerhard Schröder, although I don't think he cares at all about hockey on a personal level.

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09-14-2017, 04:34 AM
  #697
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Look at Jokerit. Finnish hockey fans still following Liiga, but "the Jokerit TV deal" (including Sweden, Denmark & Norway) is considered as one of the best KHL TV deals. The most important thing is how much are TVs willing to pay.
Do we know, how much money KHL got from the Jokerit TV deal (all nordic countries/viasat)? Is it more than Liiga got from previous contract (just in Finland/nelonen media)?

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09-14-2017, 07:56 AM
  #698
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Do we know, how much money KHL got from the Jokerit TV deal (all nordic countries/viasat)? Is it more than Liiga got from previous contract (just in Finland/nelonen media)?
Previous or still current tv conract for Liiga gets each team around 900K-1 million euros per season. The new one with Telia that start next season remarkably will earn them more, against all expectations. What Jokerit actually got for tv rights last season is not certain as it was included in the "KHL aid" they got from the league.

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09-14-2017, 09:39 AM
  #699
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Previous or still current tv conract for Liiga gets each team around 900K-1 million euros per season. The new one with Telia that start next season remarkably will earn them more, against all expectations. What Jokerit actually got for tv rights last season is not certain as it was included in the "KHL aid" they got from the league.
Yes, I know that. I am just curious, because Vorky is talking about biggest tv-deal for KHL (alltime?). Is there any public information about how much money KHL gets from Viasat or how much did they received from the previous tv-deal?

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09-14-2017, 10:01 AM
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Yes, I know that. I am just curious, because Vorky is talking about biggest tv-deal for KHL (alltime?). Is there any public information about how much money KHL gets from Viasat or how much did they received from the previous tv-deal?
I did not say "the biggest" but one of the best. But that is not important.

You are new here, so maybe you do not know. Jussi claimed that Jokerit will leave the KHL in summer 2017, because "Rotenbergs not interested anymore" and other similar stuff. I opposed him, because Jokerit is very important club for the KHL. At the end of the 16-17 season, as you know, the KHL revealed the club rating. Jokerit was in top 3. That is a proof that I was right with Jokerit & Jussi wrong.

The sum of TV deals is not publicly known. But I am sure that new Viasat KHL deal is more valuable than previous.

To come back to the KHL club rating. I can recommend you more detail articles, if you want, just PM me. Chernyshenko said following about the value of Jokerit for the KHL. He said it at the start of current season.

Quote:
As you know, we have shared income from television rights with the clubs for the last three seasons, since I came to the KHL. The mechanism is a bit complicated; the contribution of each team to the total value of television rights is taken into account. For example, the value of KHL television rights is quite high in Finland, so Jokerit’s contribution to overall value is really big. We can see a trend of increasing value of television rights worldwide, including Russia.

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