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Caleb Jones vs Ethan Bear

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09-12-2017, 04:41 PM
  #76
walktheboulavard
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Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
I can agree with alot of stuff in here. Bear is great/elite (for a prospect) in some areas of the game and could be a good NHL D based on the areas. If he were to be an NHL D, hed be a 1 or 2 dimensional D. Would take significant time in AHL and on 3rd pairing for him to develop the tools a guy like Ryan Ellis has

When I watch Jones I just see a game breaking D that has that "it" factor. He controls the game in almost all areas. He cna start a rush, lead a rush, break up plays 1 on 1 and in the D zone. In the offensive zone hes not scared to jump in and take risks, and is smart enough to so and be effective. No D prospect is ever a forsure bet to make the NHL but Jones to me has some incredible tools and high upside. Ill reevaluate after his first pro season (often when D flame out) but man right now he looks great
Agree on all fronts. The final test is how he performs at the pro level. Can never be too sure with young d-man given the dynamics of the position. It seems to me the organization is planning on going about development of these young dmen the right way as well. Which is great because you don't want to waste away potential like Jones.
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Not sure I see the high upside in Jones. He's not really elite at anything. I think his upside is a Jeff Petry/Andrej Sekera type D who are good at everything but not really great at anything.
I am pretty sure he's a elite skater. And, are you watching Sekera and Petry on fast forward because I've never seen them skate like Jones. In saying that, getting a Sekera level Dman out of the 4th round? Yes please.

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09-12-2017, 04:44 PM
  #77
GMofOilers
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So is it a sure fire bet to see both them in the AHL this year?

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09-12-2017, 05:12 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
So is it a sure fire bet to see both them in the AHL this year?
Yes, would be best landing spot for both. Although a decent shot (IMO) Jones outplays Stanton/Avitu/Gryba for the #6 spots and gets a few games. Sekera injury might provide a chance

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09-12-2017, 05:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
Yes, would be best landing spot for both. Although a decent shot (IMO) Jones outplays Stanton/Avitu/Gryba for the #6 spots and gets a few games. Sekera injury might provide a chance
Yeah sorry thats not happening(Jones playing NHL out of camp). Also there is Simpson, Lowe, Fayne in the mix. I actually have a hard time seeing Jones make the AHL squad right now. I think people forget how big of a jump it is from junior to AHL, and forget how few of spots there is on a team.

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09-12-2017, 07:07 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Yeah sorry thats not happening(Jones playing NHL out of camp). Also there is Simpson, Lowe, Fayne in the mix. I actually have a hard time seeing Jones make the AHL squad right now. I think people forget how big of a jump it is from junior to AHL, and forget how few of spots there is on a team.
I got no skin in the game or really care where he plays next year but id bet plenty of apples he gets a few nhl games next year. And it's not just me thinking that, stauffer had hit on that a few times and some other media have pondered it.

One thing is forsure though, If he doesn't make the AHL squad he's officially a bust. Not sure if you could find D more than 5 NHL D that played in the echl because they weren't good enough for ahl


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09-12-2017, 07:44 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Yeah sorry thats not happening(Jones playing NHL out of camp). Also there is Simpson, Lowe, Fayne in the mix. I actually have a hard time seeing Jones make the AHL squad right now. I think people forget how big of a jump it is from junior to AHL, and forget how few of spots there is on a team.
I have a hard time not seeing Jones beat all those guys for jobs.

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09-12-2017, 08:15 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Yeah sorry thats not happening(Jones playing NHL out of camp). Also there is Simpson, Lowe, Fayne in the mix. I actually have a hard time seeing Jones make the AHL squad right now. I think people forget how big of a jump it is from junior to AHL, and forget how few of spots there is on a team.

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09-12-2017, 08:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Yeah sorry thats not happening(Jones playing NHL out of camp). Also there is Simpson, Lowe, Fayne in the mix. I actually have a hard time seeing Jones make the AHL squad right now. I think people forget how big of a jump it is from junior to AHL, and forget how few of spots there is on a team.
If last season was any indication then Simpson is not an NHL Dman. Skating is far too poor, strength is not up to NHL quality. Only really thing he has going for him are hockey smarts, but those simply aren't enough. I don't think Jones is NHL ready either, but at least his puck moving and skating are already NHL quality. There's zero percent chance that Jones doesn't start in the AHL at bare minimum.

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09-13-2017, 12:06 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by McFlyingV View Post
If last season was any indication then Simpson is not an NHL Dman. Skating is far too poor, strength is not up to NHL quality. Only really thing he has going for him are hockey smarts, but those simply aren't enough. I don't think Jones is NHL ready either, but at least his puck moving and skating are already NHL quality. There's zero percent chance that Jones doesn't start in the AHL at bare minimum.
11 dmen fighting for 7 spots on the farm is how I see it. That why I'm asking if these 2 are sure fire AHLers this year?

Lowe
Simpson
Fayne
Auvitu
Stanton
Betker
Bear
Mantha
Jones
Paigin
Lagesson

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09-13-2017, 12:23 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
11 dmen fighting for 7 spots on the farm is how I see it. That why I'm asking if these 2 are sure fire AHLers this year?

Lowe
Simpson
Fayne
Auvitu
Stanton
Betker
Bear
Mantha
Jones
Paigin
Lagesson
It's really more like 9 guys.

Lagesson is committed to the SHL for the season and while Sekera is injured the Oilers will need one of those guys as a 7th d-man.

There's also no roster limit in the AHL so they aren't limited to carrying 14 F+7 D.

Anything's possible of course, but I would be fairly surprised if Jones sees ECHL time. I think Mantha and Paigin are more likely to end up down in the ECHL if any rookie is going down. Bear I'm not as sure about.

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09-13-2017, 12:30 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
11 dmen fighting for 7 spots on the farm is how I see it. That why I'm asking if these 2 are sure fire AHLers this year?

Lowe
Simpson
Fayne
Auvitu
Stanton
Betker
Bear
Mantha
Jones
Paigin
Lagesson
Jones is already better than Betker and Lagesson no questions asked. In fact I'm pretty sure Lagesson is playing in the SHL on loan this season. I personally think he's also clearly better than all of Bear, Mantha, and Paigin at this point, and I'd expect Auvitu to be the 7D going into the season unless one of the others from that list surprises.

That leaves 4 guys who might be ahead of him on the depth chart, but of those 4 only Simpson is really even a prospect anymore, and he's near being a career AHL tweener as personally I don't see a lot in his game thats going to make him stick at the NHL level unless he makes substantial improvements from last year.

Now, I don't fully understand why they signed all of Lowe, Stanton, and Auvitu aside from hoping it creates competition while Sekera's out and hopefully one of them steps up, but I would be extremely disappointed if they cut into the development of Bear, Jones, Paigin, and Mantha on the AHL squad. Also as Spawn mentioned above, the club has carried 8 or 9 D in the past on the Condors rotating them in and out and covering for injuries. With the way the AHL schedule is with mostly weekend games and sometimes playing 2 or 3 games on consecutive nights there's still a lot of room for development at the AHL level even if the guys aren't getting into 80-90% of the games.

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09-13-2017, 02:12 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by walktheboulavard View Post
. And, are you watching Sekera and Petry on fast forward because I've never seen them skate like Jones. In saying that, getting a Sekera level Dman out of the 4th round? Yes please.
Those guys are excellent skaters. Petry is tough to compare with his size, much longer strides. Sekera is a pretty spot on comparison, Jones may end up a bit better in the skating department but not by much. The thing you need to remember is your watching Jones skate in the WJC, WHL, and rookie tournaments not against NHLers at regular season speed, he's obviously going to look better in comparison to his peers.

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09-13-2017, 09:56 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
11 dmen fighting for 7 spots on the farm is how I see it. That why I'm asking if these 2 are sure fire AHLers this year?

Lowe
Simpson
Fayne
Auvitu
Stanton
Betker
Bear
Mantha
Jones
Paigin
Lagesson
Legesson is SEL
1 will be in the NHL as a #6 D with Sekera injured. Or as the #7 D
Betker will be ECHL as he was not good in AHL.
There will be injuries in both AHL and NHL. Last year Condors had 9 D play over 35 games
And Jones not making it over Lowe would be rather sad

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09-13-2017, 09:58 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Those guys are excellent skaters. Petry is tough to compare with his size, much longer strides. Sekera is a pretty spot on comparison, Jones may end up a bit better in the skating department but not by much. The thing you need to remember is your watching Jones skate in the WJC, WHL, and rookie tournaments not against NHLers at regular season speed, he's obviously going to look better in comparison to his peers.
True, but his ksating looks equal to other elite/top level skaters when they were in CHL, who then went on to be great skaters in NHL

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09-13-2017, 10:16 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by McFlyingV View Post
Now, I don't fully understand why they signed all of Lowe, Stanton, and Auvitu aside from hoping it creates competition while Sekera's out and hopefully one of them steps up, but I would be extremely disappointed if they cut into the development of Bear, Jones, Paigin, and Mantha on the AHL squad.
The Lowe signing is probably one of the few signings that I understand completely.

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09-13-2017, 10:33 AM
  #91
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The Lowe signing is probably one of the few signings that I understand completely.
I dont really understand it. Hes an AHL player only at this point in his career. Hes another Dillon Simpson. I understand and like the Avitu and Stanton signings because both have had some success in NHL before. At worst they are AHL depth, with Stanton being a better AHL D then Lowe

Although its a possibly Avitu heads back to Europe if he doesnt make the NHL and that opens up a spot there. Guy is what- 27 years old? Not sure he wants to ride the bus in AHL for limited money. If he doesnt make it, Id guess he realize his NHL dream is over and he heads back to Finland

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09-13-2017, 12:35 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
I dont really understand it. Hes an AHL player only at this point in his career. Hes another Dillon Simpson. I understand and like the Avitu and Stanton signings because both have had some success in NHL before. At worst they are AHL depth, with Stanton being a better AHL D then Lowe

Although its a possibly Avitu heads back to Europe if he doesnt make the NHL and that opens up a spot there. Guy is what- 27 years old? Not sure he wants to ride the bus in AHL for limited money. If he doesnt make it, Id guess he realize his NHL dream is over and he heads back to Finland
No, that's true, from a logical perspective it's certainly incomprehensible.

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09-14-2017, 10:55 AM
  #93
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Good to see Bars sakting is improving. Never saw anything from his 3 games to give cause for any concerns. At times his skating was a strength

Well see how it is compared to pro players, but right now Im pretty happy

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