Hmm.. Stanley Cup experience vs AHL experience vs NHL sophomore.
Gee I wonder who Carbo will go with.
And Ryder brings more then nothing. He's just a pylon. Gainey should have NEVER re-signed him especially since 3 years in a row he takes them to arbitration.
God I hope there's a blockbuster move with tampa that includes Ryder and Grabo next year.
this quote is really senseless because we are in a youth system... How can you espect to have a Latendresse suit himslef up for the next playoffs run when he is in the press box?! Dandy saw enough action, he can go mop the press box IMO
remember, we were winning in the regular season without Dandenault, we achieved to the first seed in the east almost without Dandenault, we were classed top 1 in the goals for, even without the few goals he scored but if you remove Lats goals, we fall second
Let the young play...
Last edited by Iwishihadacup: 04-24-2008 at 01:43 PM.
Hmm..
Stanley Cup experience vs AHL experience vs NHL sophomore.
Gee I wonder who Carbo will go with.
And Ryder brings more then nothing. He's just a pylon. Gainey should have NEVER re-signed him especially since 3 years in a row he takes them to arbitration.
God I hope there's a blockbuster move with tampa that includes Ryder and Grabo next year.
We have enough guys on the roster to provide NHL Playoff experience....we don't need useless Dandenault....he brings nothing to the team....NOTHING!!!
Lats is playing awful and won't use his body, which is why he made the Habs 2 years ago in the first place. He hit everything in site in training camp and then once he made the team he stopped hitting. If he isn't going to play physical....bench him!!
Just because Ryder isn't scoring a ton of goals this year doesn't mean he is useless. He improved his defensive game a lot and he is passing the puck better then he ever did. I would rather have his offensive prowess in the lineup over Lats and Dandy any day.
The only reason why I even mentioned Stewarts name was because in the 1 game he played, he showed more heart and intensity than Ryder, Lats and Dandy put together. He almost scored a couple of goals, he played tough and pounded the crap out of Bryan McCabe. We could use his speed and toughness in the lineup so I think he is worth a shot.
this quote is really senseless because qe are in a youth system... How can you espect to have a Latendresse suit himslef up for the next playoffs run whn he is in the presse box?! Dandy saw enough action, he can bo mop th press box IMO
remember, we were winning in the regular season without Dandenault, we achieved to the first seed in the east almost without Dandenault, we were classed top 1 in the goals for even without the thin goals he scored and if you remove Lats goals, we fall second
Let the young play...
WHAT???? How about you try it again, but this time speak english so we can all understand what your trying to say.
Lapierre- Streit- Dandy line contributed with one goal in game 7, arguably the goal that really gave us the confidence we needed to finish off Boston.
Sorry to pick nits, but Dandenault wasn't on the ice for that goal. It was Kovy to Lappy to Streit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs
You don't tinker with lines if you are winning.
Not to take away from the glorious last game, but it just took the Habs 7 games to finish off an obviously inferior opponent. I don't think that kind of success makes the lineup untouchable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs
Plus Lapierre's line is the "shutdown" line.
Montreal is rolling with 2 offensive line, 1 shutdown, 1 energy.
Of those, Lapierre's line would be the "energy line." I prefer to call it the rookie and special team player's line. They have not been playing the shutdown role against the opposition's best at any time this season. Against the Bruins, they played against the Reichs and Nokelainens of the team, and still got outshot. Against the Flyers, I expect them to play against the Thoreson-Dowd-Downie line.
I really like Lapierre, I think he adds an element to the Habs that we wouldn't have otherwise. Streit obviously needs to be in the lineup, because of his PP skills. Dandenault is replaceable. I would welcome Ryder or Grabovsky back, to boost our soft minutes offence.
We have enough guys on the roster to provide NHL Playoff experience....we don't need useless Dandenault....he brings nothing to the team....NOTHING!!!
Lats is playing awful and won't use his body, which is why he made the Habs 2 years ago in the first place. He hit everything in site in training camp and then once he made the team he stopped hitting. If he isn't going to play physical....bench him!!
Just because Ryder isn't scoring a ton of goals this year doesn't mean he is useless. He improved his defensive game a lot and he is passing the puck better then he ever did. I would rather have his offensive prowess in the lineup over Lats and Dandy any day.
The only reason why I even mentioned Stewarts name was because in the 1 game he played, he showed more heart and intensity than Ryder, Lats and Dandy put together. He almost scored a couple of goals, he played tough and pounded the crap out of Bryan McCabe. We could use his speed and toughness in the lineup so I think he is worth a shot.
So, if he brings nothing, NOTHING, why does Carbo use him ? Do Muller and Jarvis try and talk him out of it ? Into It ? Does Gainey get involved ? Why does he suit up ?
I was thinking about this today, with Lapierre's line being imho our weakest line (in ability... not physicallity) in our last series. Would you insert
Grabovsky, Ryder and Latendresse against the Flyers? I was thinking that in order to compete with the Flyers we need to be able to roll 4 productive lines
Personally I just don't see Lapierre being able to center an offensively oriented line. Smolinsky's line brings the Checking and Energy. I think the 3rd can be replaced
So, if he brings nothing, NOTHING, why does Carbo use him ? Do Muller and Jarvis try and talk him out of it ? Into It ? Does Gainey get involved ? Why does he suit up ?
Well let me re-phrase that then, Dandenault only brings defence to the table. He is useless offensively!!!
this quote is really senseless because we are in a youth system... How can you espect to have a Latendresse suit himslef up for the next playoffs run when he is in the press box?! Dandy saw enough action, he can go mop the press box IMO
remember, we were winning in the regular season without Dandenault, we achieved to the first seed in the east almost without Dandenault, we were classed top 1 in the goals for, even without the few goals he scored but if you remove Lats goals, we fall second
Let the young play...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58
WHAT???? How about you try it again, but this time speak english so we can all understand what your trying to say.
fixed for you...
and you should drink a big cup of fail... it would unstress you a bit
Lats
If he is to fulfill any of the hopes people placed in this guy, he needs to play in the playoffs. He also brings size and some offensive skill. Also, his defensive game is now much better than it used to be during his rookie season (not a liability anymore).
On the other hand, Dandenault = less offense, less size
and I never thought Dandenault (as a forward) was that reliable defensively either.
The experience he's got is not enough to compensate for his numerous downsides.
I don't understand why Carbo keeps him instead of Ryder, Latendresse or even Grabovski.
During the whole regular season, Carbo has always tried to have three offensive lines. That is one of the reasons we managed to get as many players with 50 points.
Why would he now be satisfied with just two offensive lines?
This I don't understand.
So, if he brings nothing, NOTHING, why does Carbo use him ? Do Muller and Jarvis try and talk him out of it ? Into It ? Does Gainey get involved ? Why does he suit up ?
I think coaches like to use veterans in these 4th line roles in the playoffs because they can be trusted to stick to the game plan and give their all. That's my best guess, anyway. It takes some guts to use a player you don't trust as much, but has more to offer the team, IMO.
Even though the play ends with Ryder too often, and he doesn't play with as much moxy as Dandenault, the Habs still achieve more positive results when Ryder is on the ice. I think the coaching staff needs to get over their bias (as far as playing style) in this case.
Well let me re-phrase that then, Dandenault only brings defence to the table. He is useless offensively!!!
Dandenault doesnt even bring defense, hes a liability defensively. Its not a coincidence hes the player who has the less ice-time on the team. Hes an energy player whos been there, thats it.
So, if he brings nothing, NOTHING, why does Carbo use him ? Do Muller and Jarvis try and talk him out of it ? Into It ? Does Gainey get involved ? Why does he suit up ?
Because of the perception that experience means winning hockey games. Same reason teams in all sports sign aging veteran players to stupid contracts even though they are declining in skill.
I mean at the beginning of the season we played Brisebois and Dandenault in preference to Lapierre and O'Byrne and we were a mediocre team. Once we brought in the younger, better, more skilled players like S Kost, O'Byrne and Laps, we started winning.
Veteran players and ex-players hate young players and rookies. They are loyal to their fellow vetaran brothers. Carbo, Muller, Jarvis all are long-time vets who are loyal to fellow veterans. Even Koivu was too excited about the young generation coming in. It's only human nature. Doesn't mean it's the best thing for the team.
I think coaches like to use veterans in these 4th line roles in the playoffs because they can be trusted to stick to the game plan and give their all. That's my best guess, anyway. It takes some guts to use a player you don't trust as much, but has more to offer the team, IMO.
Even though the play ends with Ryder too often, and he doesn't play with as much moxy as Dandenault, the Habs still achieve more positive results when Ryder is on the ice. I think the coaching staff needs to get over their bias (as far as playing style) in this case.
I think Dandy brings some jump on the forecheck. If he's moving his feet he can be effective and force the D into mistakes. He really isn't much of a veteran type of player though,imo, he isn't that good defensively, in terms of winning battles etc.
I think that because he's played D, it's assumed he's a good checker.
I'm not really a fan of the guy as he just doesn't have a whole lot of hockey sense,imo. TK is better in most ways.
I think he and a few others are like wind up toys. They can be good in short stretches and then it sort of peters out. I have a hunch that a key to Mtl winning will be someone coming into he lineup amd contributing,whether it be Ryder or Lats, or even Grabovski.
Dandenault doesnt even bring defense, hes a liability defensively. Its not a coincidence hes the player who has the less ice-time on the team. Hes an energy player whos been there, thats it.
Your right....he doesn't even provide decent defence....but I guess when you have to choose between Dandy, Lats and Ryder....its pretty hard to pick one of them without having it blow up in your face.
Honestly, if Lats played rougher and hit more, I would have him in the lineup no matter what. He proved he can put the puck in the net and he made the team when he was a rookie because he was big and aggressive, but after making the roster, he stopped using his physical style and now he is just useless.
Don't get me wrong, I really love Ryder. I even said he would be force for us in the playoffs, which isn't true (yet hopefully ). While he's an intense forechecker, a good shooter and a player that's actually pretty good to create some space for himself to shoot when he has the puck, Micheal is absolutely horrid on the cycle.
Yeah, we all know that passing isn't his strong point, but when he's in a cycling situation, that weakness shows itself big time. He never hits his linemates with simple passes along the boards! It always either too hard or too soft. More so, he's not very good at getting passes from his linemates too
The guy can somewhat be a burden, since he can't really elevate the cycling game of a line. He literally has to wait for the puck and shoot, which should be the job of guys like Brett Hull, not Ryder, who while he has a good shot, has absolutely no nose for the net.
He would have to fit on the 3rd line or whatever line it is, (the one with Lapierre and all). The problem is, Carbo expects that line to be very aware defensivly, while creating chances. He expects this line to keep the puck in the offensive zone as long as possible. Unfortunatly, Ryder is a kind of offensive possession curse. Plays just magically abort when Micheal is near the puck .
I don't know... I am sure he'll get a game at some point, but the poor guy has glaring weaknesses that puts him in a though spot with all our depth...
All our depth? All our depth?
All our depth means nothing when have Mathieu freaking Dandeneault in our lineup!!!
If Carbo wants defensive awareness from that line then Mr. Minus Eleven should be in the pressbox!!
Michael Ryder should be playing!
Management asked him to better his defensive game and he did...by improving his +/- by a whopping +21!!! Yes, his goal output suffered but when you try changing your style of game your bound to see other areas of your game suffer until you become fully adjusted.
Really, when you look at it, for a bad year it wasn't really that bad!
He had 30 goals last year...17 PP...2 SH...11 ES. minus 25!
This year he had 14 goals...1PP...0 SH...13 ES. plus 4!
Any coach should be thrilled with improvements to the last two stats. Especially when you challenge the player to do so!
His numbers probably would have been better if he had received the same PP time as last year. However, with the emergence of Striet, the two Kostitsyns, and Kovalev's rebirth, the PP was the best in the league. You can't argue or tamper with success.
Anyway, Ryder's 'poor' season will probably end up making him a better. Once becomes comfortable in his defensive awareness, he will likely regain his scoring touch and more complete hockey player.
