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Old
04-25-2008, 01:22 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Irish drinking songs ?

.
actually, since I'm open minded kind of guy...I'm in favor of any ethnic drinking songs..including Irish!


( not too mention the Bride is 1/2 Irish )

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04-25-2008, 01:27 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Skybax View Post
Wow. Perfect example how somebody who doesn't get it. Scary.

1) Because so many gave the ultimate sacrifice so you could have what you have today.

2) The games and teams that represent the cities in North America are not in Europe, doesn't matter who the players are or where they are from, it's not about them.
I don't think you adress his point though. Why is a sporting event, the place to publically acknowledge those who have gone before ? Sports in many ways is where we go for escape.

My family, like many has lost people serving their country, but I don't use G1, Habs/Flyers as necessarily a place to honor them.

The anthem is about more than that. I agree that both of our countries, while falwed, deserve certain ammounts of respect, while both be open to criticism and protest. It's a ball game or a hockey game though, aren't you projecting here, just because it's always been done ?

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04-25-2008, 01:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
actually, since I'm open minded kind of guy...I'm in favor of any ethnic drinking songs..including Irish!


( not too mention the Bride is 1/2 Irish )
Mine's Scottish, but I married her anyways.

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04-25-2008, 01:34 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by LilWinger11 View Post
That's how I generally look at it. FWIW, I and a lot of other Americans are as horrified by our current leadership and foreign policy as anybody. At the last game I went to, Al Gore was in attendance, and while everyone was clapping I heard the guy next me mutter, "Bush sucks". I'm thinking, "Amen, buddy." It is possible to love this country and hate the people leading it.
I don't think anybody should be booing lilwinger's anthem.

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04-25-2008, 01:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I don't think you adress his point though. Why is a sporting event, the place to publically acknowledge those who have gone before ? Sports in many ways is where we go for escape.

My family, like many has lost people serving their country, but I don't use G1, Habs/Flyers as necessarily a place to honor them.

The anthem is about more than that. I agree that both of our countries, while falwed, deserve certain ammounts of respect, while both be open to criticism and protest. It's a ball game or a hockey game though, aren't you projecting here, just because it's always been done ?
In the simplest way, it's giving thanks & appreciation to be able to enjoy / take part in the event about to commence.

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04-25-2008, 01:50 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Skybax View Post
In the simplest way, it's giving thanks & appreciation to be able to enjoy / take part in the event about to commence.
I know what you're saying, I do. I just have to wonder, why there ? Do schools sing it in the morning ? Concerts open with it ? They began doing it during ball games during one of the world wars, I believe, and simply never stopped.

Is the constant ackowledgement necessary ? A little patriotism's a good thing, a lot of it isn't.

I would never suspend the practice because some liquored up louts can't be civil, but I would think about whether it should be part of the opening of every sporting event.

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04-25-2008, 01:54 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Irish drinking songs ?

I've been a wild rover
For many a year
And I've spent all my money
On whiskey and beer

Now, I've returned with gold
In great store
No never will I play
The wild rover no more.
Go P.K.! I doubt he's Irish. Had no idea Beatrix Kiddo was either (but no reason to doubt it, of course).

Anyway, it's a hockey game. Folks paid some pretty stupid money to attend. They can play the Hokey Pokey or Stompin' Tom or Cotton-Eyed Joe or some country's national anthem and I think it's fair game for fans to have whatever kind of fun they want to have with those songs. Or to try to make political statements based on them. Whatever. If the NHL or the Montreal Canadiens don't want fans to express themselves that way, they can pass a rule or print some little bylaw on the backs of the tickets so fans will *know* what's acceptable and what isn't. Otherwise, it's all fair game.

I'm more annoyed by fans casually using foul language at sporting events than by anthem-booing. But either way, it's a majority rules kind of thing AFAIC. If society as whole kinda feels like booing anthems crosses the line and qualifies as ejectable-conduct, or that shouting four-letter epithets doesn't, then I'm fine with that. As long as it's spelled out up front. (Or in the fine print on the back). Then you don't need to have any aribitrary self-appointed enforcement of such things. We _do_ need to be told what class is these days it seems.

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04-25-2008, 01:58 PM
  #58
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it says it all when you have to be reminded no to boo the american anthem. As a canadian and Flyers fan to boot I was actually suprised at the attitude of the habs fans, but again they are excited and it is a patriotic thing I guess so I would go with the Canada against the US thing.
I think the habs are the yankees of hockey; there is no in between love or hate and that is the ultimate sign of respect me I am a hater I guess but mostly because of respect. I think that the ole ole spouts more arrogance than anything and I laugh at the crowd as that is about as traditional as sushi at the rink.
the two things that I found interesting during the anthems was that they only focused on Smolinski an American "mouthing" the words during the Canadian Anthem and only paused on Mr. Beliveu (sp) during the US anthem in hopes of leaving a postive impression because in my opinion he does nothing less than oose with class.
And finally whether it is pouring beer on players or booing or singing songs it is a freedom of choice that we were granted by the efforts of the two respected countries so it should be remember. Booing an anthem is classless, maybe they should start playing the russian anthem in Montreal for that matter.

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04-25-2008, 02:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Go P.K.! I doubt he's Irish. Had no idea Beatrix Kiddo was either (but no reason to doubt it, of course).

Anyway, it's a hockey game. Folks paid some pretty stupid money to attend. They can play the Hokey Pokey or Stompin' Tom or Cotton-Eyed Joe or some country's national anthem and I think it's fair game for fans to have whatever kind of fun they want to have with those songs. Or to try to make political statements based on them. Whatever. If the NHL or the Montreal Canadiens don't want fans to express themselves that way, they can pass a rule or print some little bylaw on the backs of the tickets so fans will *know* what's acceptable and what isn't. Otherwise, it's all fair game.

I'm more annoyed by fans casually using foul language at sporting events than by anthem-booing. But either way, it's a majority rules kind of thing AFAIC. If society as whole kinda feels like booing anthems crosses the line and qualifies as ejectable-conduct, or that shouting four-letter epithets doesn't, then I'm fine with that. As long as it's spelled out up front. (Or in the fine print on the back). Then you don't need to have any aribitrary self-appointed enforcement of such things. We _do_ need to be told what class is these days it seems.
I'm just fed up in general with people who don't know how to act. I have no claim on right or wrong, but by screaming f bombs with 3 - 9 year olds in the row in front of you, or booing an anthem because the other team's 'the enemy',
you tend to wonder, don't you ?

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04-25-2008, 02:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
... I think that the ole ole spouts more arrogance than anything ...
Read the faq, SVP:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=485918

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04-25-2008, 02:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Is the constant ackowledgement necessary ? A little patriotism's a good thing, a lot of it isn't.
Personally, I see booing as an act of patriotism as well. It's more than likely a "mine is bigger than yours" type thing (rather than a serious critique of US foreign policy). That doesn't mean I agree with the booing though, because frankly, I think we're all impotent. The singing of National anthems and the booing of National anthems offends me equally.


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04-25-2008, 02:03 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
And finally whether it is pouring beer on players or booing or singing songs it is a freedom of choice that we were granted by the efforts of the two respected countries so it should be remember.
Man, oh, man, if I ever die so that people can preserve the right to freely pour beer on players during hockey games, I'm gonna be like so pissed.

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04-25-2008, 02:35 PM
  #63
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The way I see it, people associate the anthems to the team's location:

US anthem = Pensylvania = Philly = Flyers = our opposition = boos

Canadian anthem = Quebec = Montreal = Habs = our team = cheers

I personally never booed another nation's anthem, but I do understand why some people do it and I don't think anyone should make it a bigger deal than it actually is.

my 2 cents...

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04-25-2008, 02:38 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
...Uh... but see, to some of us, the anthem is actually more symbolic of American politics/politicians or foreign policy than it is of average Americans. Of course, as you say, that's the self-centred navel gazing viewpoint that totally overlooks the fact that average Americans love their anthem (a whole lot more than average Canadians love theirs) and maybe we should recognize and try to respect their anthem fetish. OR maybe the average Americans should try to recognize and respect that we don't see our booing as something that should offend them, but rather as a harmless form of protest against American politics/politicians or foreign policy, as it's (at least sometimes) intended.

From the archives of the dancing hot pepper, anyway.

Getting rid of the anthems would be easier.
Good ol BG, ever the Devil's Advocate.

I'm sure the people booing are dedicated political activists, likely a bunch of Greenpeace members on shore leave from Farley Mowat's boat. Naw, now that I think of it, that seems too convenient, almost apologetic for bad behavior. I can't shake the feeling that the culprits are more likely a collection of liquored up cement heads and jingoistic/self righteous imbeciles. Not that it matters, even if political protest was the true motivation for these people, I can scarcely think of a more tepid demonstration of disapproval.

Forget the political overtones (such as they are), why not focus on courtesy. Why give offence simply for that sake of giving offence? Why not quietly sip your beer, listen to your iPod or eat your hot dog during the anthems.

If they can't or won't bite their lips out of courtesy for our southern neighbors, then perhaps they'll do it for their fellow Canadians/Quebecers. Frankly, some of us are sick of apologizing for these yahoos like they’re our inbred cousin. The one who talks on his cell phone during movies or who parks in handicap spots when he runs into the convenience store for a carton of smokes.

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04-25-2008, 02:42 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
I don't think anybody should be booing lilwinger's anthem.
Maybe the team should have me put on my Komi jersey and tape a message for the Jumbotron asking people to be respectful? I could do it in both languages, if necessary.

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04-25-2008, 02:47 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by LilWinger11 View Post
Maybe the team should have me put on my Komi jersey and tape a message for the Jumbotron asking people to be respectful? I could do it in both languages, if necessary.


Speak french to us. Please.

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04-25-2008, 03:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Good ol BG, ever the Devil's Advocate.

I'm sure the people booing are dedicated political activists, likely a bunch of Greenpeace members on shore leave from Farley Mowat's boat. Naw, now that I think of it, that seems too convenient, almost apologetic for bad behavior. I can't shake the feeling that the culprits are more likely a collection of liquored up cement heads and jingoistic/self righteous imbeciles. Not that it matters, even if political protest was the true motivation for these people, I can scarcely think of a more tepid demonstration of disapproval.
Hey, liquored up cement headed jingoistic/self righteous imbeciles sometimes catch a bit of the news too! In the context of more recent low-scale booing episodes, I totally buy AlexMeths logic above. As the prevailing generalization. But back in the day, there were some higher-profile political protest-based motivations behind some of the larger-scale booing too IMHO. Now, of course, that's hard to come by, since Barack and Hillary are rock stars on our TV too and we've got our own case of rampaging neoconitis to burn our cop cars over.
Quote:
Forget the political overtones (such as they are), why not focus on courtesy. Why give offence simply for that sake of giving offence? Why not quietly sip your beer, listen to your iPod or eat your hot dog during the anthems.
Can I keep my baseball cap on while doing so too?
Quote:
If they can't or won't bite their lips out of courtesy for our southern neighbors, then perhaps they'll do it for their fellow Canadians/Quebecers. Frankly, some of us are sick of apologizing for these yahoos like they’re our inbred cousin. The one who talks on his cell phone during movies or who parks in handicap spots when he runs into the convenience store for a carton of smokes.
I guess I have lower expectations. But then I only attend junior and AHL games anyway. I think they should get one home-team player to sing his own country's national anthem, once per season. Then give an award at the end of the year to the best performance. Maybe the fans can vote on it. Or have one of those noiseometers determine the winner based on the volume of cheering. Team winners will be known by the All-Star break, and then compete in an overall NHL Idol competition. After the All-Star break, it's random fan karaoke. If you beat the NHL Idol performance, you get a prize.

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04-25-2008, 03:05 PM
  #68
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A couple of things about the American anthem Booing

When two canadian teams play each other. Is the American anthem played? No because there is no American Representative.

Therefore some boo the American Anthem...to boo the Visiting TEAM!! (wOw there's an Idea)


Another thing, Is that some (they have the perfect right to) feel that the Americans in this world (and by Americans, its the people who "run the shindig") are messing around just a weebit too much. Basically its their way of sending a message to the Citizens and their Government that the world (or their neighbours atleast) aren't happy with them. I mean Thomas Jefferson would booh his own anthem these days.


Instead of finding out why people booh the others Anthem, people act "suprised", shocked and Holier than Thou, its all just annoying. People Boo... Deal with it. They payed $$ They can do what they want unless they threaten other people's well being.

To finish. A Fan is by definition a Fanatic...there is no need for Logic in his actions He loves everything that is linked to his team and loathes everything that isn't.

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04-25-2008, 03:08 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Hey, liquored up cement headed jingoistic/self righteous imbeciles sometimes catch a bit of the news too! In the context of more recent low-scale booing episodes, I totally buy AlexMeths logic above. As the prevailing generalization. But back in the day, there were some higher-profile political protest-based motivations behind some of the larger-scale booing too IMHO. Now, of course, that's hard to come by, since Barack and Hillary are rock stars on our TV too and we've got our own case of rampaging neoconitis to burn our cop cars over.
Can I keep my baseball cap on while doing so too?
I guess I have lower expectations. But then I only attend junior and AHL games anyway. I think they should get one home-team player to sing his own country's national anthem, once per season. Then give an award at the end of the year to the best performance. Maybe the fans can vote on it. Or have one of those noiseometers determine the winner based on the volume of cheering. Team winners will be known by the All-Star break, and then compete in an overall NHL Idol competition. After the All-Star break, it's random fan karaoke. If you beat the NHL Idol performance, you get a prize.
NBC, FOX and whoever else does these things want U, they just don'T know it yet. Actually Gary Bettman wants you... not sure u want him

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04-25-2008, 03:24 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
A couple of things about the American anthem Booing

When two canadian teams play each other. Is the American anthem played? No because there is no American Representative.

Therefore some boo the American Anthem...to boo the Visiting TEAM!! (wOw there's an Idea)


Another thing, Is that some (they have the perfect right to) feel that the Americans in this world (and by Americans, its the people who "run the shindig") are messing around just a weebit too much. Basically its their way of sending a message to the Citizens and their Government that the world (or their neighbours atleast) aren't happy with them. I mean Thomas Jefferson would booh his own anthem these days.


Instead of finding out why people booh the others Anthem, people act "suprised", shocked and Holier than Thou, its all just annoying. People Boo... Deal with it. They payed $$ They can do what they want unless they threaten other people's well being.

To finish. A Fan is by definition a Fanatic...there is no need for Logic in his actions He loves everything that is linked to his team and loathes everything that isn't.
Sure it's a form of political protest, what a ****ing cop-out. I know when I want to express my distaste with political reality, I head on down to a sporting event. I used the example of Greenpeace activists at the Bell Centre in my reply to Blind Gardien, oddly it still holds. Anonymously bleating is a crowd of some 20+ thousand is not a noble or organized or meaningful expression of disapproval. It’s just a bunch of dimwits confusing American iconography with American politics, with American citizens being caught in the crossfire.

Has it escaped your attention that a majority of Americans feel the same way about their government and foreign policy as we do? Many of those same people still cherish the symbols that a segment of braying sports fans seem so anxious to deride.

In terms of a paying customer’s “rights”, it doesn’t entitle them to a free pass for boorish behavior.


Last edited by habfan4: 04-25-2008 at 03:30 PM.
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04-25-2008, 04:02 PM
  #71
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Sure it's a form of political protest, what a ****ing cop-out. I know when I want to express my distaste with political reality, I head on down to a sporting event. I used the example of Greenpeace activists at the Bell Centre in my reply to Blind Gardien, oddly it still holds. Anonymously bleating is a crowd of some 20+ thousand is not a noble or organized or meaningful expression of disapproval. It’s just a bunch of dimwits confusing American iconography with American politics, with American citizens being caught in the crossfire.

Has it escaped your attention that a majority of Americans feel the same way about their government and foreign policy as we do? Many of those same people still cherish the symbols that a segment of braying sports fans seem so anxious to deride.

In terms of a paying customer’s “rights”, it doesn’t entitle them to a free pass for boorish behavior.
I did give two reasons. I don't boo anthems, I'm just trying to give reasons as to why people boo the anthems. And the fact that contrarily to what you fervently think. They're allowed too, just like you are allowed to burn a flag etc.

What happened to Individual freedom? why must everyone think and act the same way? As long as you don't harm or threaten the people around you? Sure people should behave properly but that's an individual decision for them to make. Where is the line if you let people choose how they want to behave?

Something called The Law...

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04-25-2008, 04:06 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I did give two reasons. I don't boo anthems, I'm just trying to give reasons as to why people boo the anthems. And the fact that contrarily to what you fervently think. They're allowed too, just like you are allowed to burn a flag etc.

What happened to Individual freedom? why must everyone think and act the same way? As long as you don't harm or threaten the people around you? Sure people should behave properly but that's an individual decision for them to make. Where is the line if you let people choose how they want to behave?

Something called The Law...
I guess because even though you have a right to do something.....it may not be the right thing to do.

I still get up on a bus to give my seat to the elderly or a woman. Or hold a door open for somebody. Tough for me to put into words. Then again maybe I'm just a dinosaur and the world has passed me by.

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04-25-2008, 04:08 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I did give two reasons. I don't boo anthems, I'm just trying to give reasons as to why people boo the anthems. And the fact that contrarily to what you fervently think. They're allowed too, just like you are allowed to burn a flag etc.

What happened to Individual freedom? why must everyone think and act the same way? As long as you don't harm or threaten the people around you? Sure people should behave properly but that's an individual decision for them to make. Where is the line if you let people choose how they want to behave?

Something called The Law...
No one's denying an a hole's right to be an a hole, it's just that when said a hole highlights what he is, it then becomes the inalienable right of others to call him an a hole. I know that it seems like I've said a hole a lot, but what the heck....

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04-25-2008, 04:40 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I did give two reasons. I don't boo anthems, I'm just trying to give reasons as to why people boo the anthems. And the fact that contrarily to what you fervently think. They're allowed too, just like you are allowed to burn a flag etc.

What happened to Individual freedom? why must everyone think and act the same way? As long as you don't harm or threaten the people around you? Sure people should behave properly but that's an individual decision for them to make. Where is the line if you let people choose how they want to behave?

Something called The Law...
Let's have some fun with a hypothetical situation.

Next year the league or the 6 Canadian clubs decide that the flags of the Provinces represented in the game will be brought onto the ice during the anthem ceremony (of course the anthem will be sung in both official languages).

So we come upon a Saturday night game featuring the Habs and the Flames in Calgary. The pre-game skate goes off without a hitch, the Habs are jeered and the Flames are greeted with a wave of applause. Now it's anthem time, the announcer makes the usual address (please stand etc...) and the singer followed by a couple of Mounties carrying the Provincial flags make there way out onto the ice. Oh seems the crowd got a little testy when the Quebec flag made it's debut. No matter onto the anthem, oh it seems like the crowd is booing the French portion of the anthem.

Why are they booing? Clearly it must be a group of political science students that are upset with confederation being misbalanced. Maybe they're protesting against Bill 101 (yes I know it's been repealed and replaced with other legislation). I'm sure the Quebec papers, politicians and Quebecers in general would take it in stride, after all they were paying customers. No one would complain that it wasn't appropriate to bring politics into a sporting event, I mean it's their right to protest.

Belaboured point made short, No one appreciates that type of treatment. People with a political point to make should do so in the proper forum.

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04-25-2008, 04:49 PM
  #75
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No one's denying an a hole's right to be an a hole, it's just that when said a hole highlights what he is, it then becomes the inalienable right of others to call him an a hole. I know that it seems like I've said a hole a lot, but what the heck....
BOOO BOOO to your flagrant circumvention of the profanity filter.

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